I have the luxury of not standing for public office though, if i was i would fully expect my financial projections to be subjected to the maximum scrutiny, Ed Balls' figures just don't add up, he needs to be honest and explain where the extra money will come from, he cant keep saying bankers bonuses, he needs to be honest with the public

How do you have even the slightest clue they don't add up? You're making a wild assumption on your existing assumption that no one in the Labour Party knows anything about economics.

How do you have even the slightest clue they don't add up? You're making a wild assumption on your existing assumption that no one in the Labour Party knows anything about economics.

 

There has been several policies such as the affordable house building (something that would cost imho billions) that Ed has said would be paid for out of bankers bonuses and a pensions raid, today he is saying that the jobs thing will be paid for out of it too, i am pretty sure i have missed out another policy too that bankers bonuses were going to fund, i just don't believe that the bankers bonuses and raid on pensions will raise that much money, banks will just pay higher basics and reduce the bonuses, then when Ed realises there is not enough in the pot from pensions to fund these grandiose schemes £150k pensions raid will soon become £100k and then £75k and soon non rich people will be well and truly dragged into it

 

 

How do you have even the slightest clue they don't add up? You're making a wild assumption on your existing assumption that no one in the Labour Party knows anything about economics.

The irony here being the only MPs in the treasury/shadow chancellor who know nothing about economics are George Osbourne and Danny Alexander...

Which goes to show you don't need to be an expert to do a good job

 

Osbourne is one of the best chancellors of the last 30 or 40 years, not the most likeable of people and is a very smug twat, but he has transformed our economy into a thriving powerhouse economy, the strongest in Europe this year according to predictions, goods are flying off the retail shelves, jobs are being created like not seen in years, the country has a feelgood factor, the only problem is the stubborn debt but the key to getting that down is increased tax receipts and strong growth so it is a project for the next parliament.

 

But without being an economist Osbourne has turned us into a powerhouse that is the envy of Europe so it shows that you do not need to be a qualified economist to do a good job

That would be true if Osbourne had done a good job. He hasn't. Austerity in a recession will continue to be as brilliant an idea as the chocolate teapot.

How do you have even the slightest clue they don't add up? You're making a wild assumption on your existing assumption that no one in the Labour Party knows anything about economics.

 

Craig may be a moron, but his response will be common among people if this is really going to be Labour's type of message, and Ed Balls only has himself to blame. If you buy into the argument that deficits are evil and promise anything you do will be carefully-costed, you invite people to scrutinise how the sums add up - and no-one is going to find "we can make it happen without spending much/any money" to be a satisfactory answer.

 

Until Labour start making the argument that we should borrow from bond markets, that the deficit doesn't matter, and that investing in our public services and in our future generations are the most important thing even if it comes at the cost of a messy balance sheet (an argument British people agreed with for most of history, and which even now Americans are receptive to despite the US being fundamentally a more conservative country than us) then Labour are going to get these problems anytime they announce a policy.

£5.5bn is a lot of money (IIRC about the amount it costs for - certainly it's in the ball park of how much I'd guess it would cost to cover six months pay for everyone 18-24 who's been out of work for over a year. And in any case, your assumption is that pretty much all of them would lose the work the second the six months are over, which is pretty unlikely - once it comes down to it, I'd imagine a lot of those organisations would see the value in what they have them doing and take on a lot of the people on the scheme for a lot of time. I'd imagine the big obstacle in Wales is the fact that their budgets don't allow them to put much money into the scheme.

 

At some point though, most of your plans have to run into money Danny. Lenders are wary enough as it is about stumping up cash for current (as opposed to capital) spending, as it's the one thing you shouldn't be borrowing for - if your income isn't covering your constant outgoings, you're getting into trouble if you don't have a good long-term plan on how to cover that. Borrowing vast sums of money to employ everyone unemployed currently is totally ruinous - you're borrowing for ongoing spending and potentially really inefficient spending (yeah, the public sector could do with a lot more employees. 1 million of them though? With a large proportion of them unskilled?). It's not the kind of policy you could maintain for long without putting taxes up to pre-Thatcher levels, and there's no guarantee that would be able to generate as much as it did pre-Thatcher given globalisation's in and capital controls are out.

 

If we were going all out to borrow for something, I'd far sooner have it on a massive house building project. That you could probably get away with. Borrowing for wages and full employment's a route which has been taken and which the collapse of the Warsaw Pact has already shown up as pretty unsustainable. We couldn't do it without cutting back big time in other areas.

 

(Also, anonymous briefings or not, I'm pretty sure the next Labour government isn't about to chuck 90% of people off DSA. Let's be real here Danny.)

But without being an economist Osbourne has turned us into a powerhouse that is the envy of Europe so it shows that you do not need to be a qualified economist to do a good job

LMFAO

 

Fucking hell Craig, do you really believe this nonsense? 0.7% growth IS NOT A POWERHOUSE. It is NOT THE ENVY OF EUROPE. Statistically we're one of the better performers in Europe. Yay, we're the fastest limpers!

 

And when you've lost a load of jobs, of course you're going to create a lot more jobs at some point. We're still below where we were when we started falling six years ago. We're now making up that capacity again, and we have a higher population than we did in 2008. That isn't a miracle.

LMFAO

 

Fucking hell Craig, do you really believe this nonsense? 0.7% growth IS NOT A POWERHOUSE. It is NOT THE ENVY OF EUROPE. Statistically we're one of the better performers in Europe. Yay, we're the fastest limpers!

 

This year the forecasted 2.7% has been revised up to 2.8%, that is strong growth, not as strong as China but still very robust and no Western European county is going to come close to matching that.

 

 

Craig may be a moron

 

WTF? :rofl: :rofl:

This year the forecasted 2.7% has been revised up to 2.8%, that is strong growth, not as strong as China but still very robust and no Western European county is going to come close to matching that.

We're still below where we were pre-crisis. The likes of Germany aren't and they're projected for ~2% growth. You wouldn't be calling the guy who just stalled really badly and is now speeding to catch up the 'powerhouse' who's the 'envy of all the others' in an F1 race Craig.

Instead of creating non jobs with local authorities that Labour will do with other peoples money it is far better to encourage enterprise and encourage more people to start their own businesses, the successful start ups then create jobs

 

The government instead of subsidising people to sweep floors and make tea for local authority workers, should be getting the unemployed to start their own businesses anyone who wants to start a business (subject to meeting certain criteria) a grant of a couple of thousand and the government take a 49.9% stake in these businesses so if they become a success the government has a stake and can get its money back and more

We're still below where we were pre-crisis. The likes of Germany aren't and they're projected for ~2% growth. You wouldn't be calling the guy who just stalled really badly and is now speeding to catch up the 'powerhouse' who's the 'envy of all the others' in an F1 race Craig.

 

The article on the BBC site, an organisation that is far more left wing biased than right wing biased, reckons that we will overtake 2008 this year so it has been a great revival

 

I would compare it more to the 1995 Indy 500, Jacques Villeneuve due to a problem lost 2 laps and was in last place, he overtook much of the field and with great strategy powered ahead of the other drivers and won comfortably

 

The 2 laps down comparison being the UK under Gordon Brown's mismanagement, and the great strategy being Osborne's policies

The article on the BBC site, an organisation that is far more left wing biased than right wing biased, reckons that we will overtake 2008 this year so it has been a great revival

 

I would compare it more to the 1995 Indy 500, Jacques Villeneuve due to a problem lost 2 laps and was in last place, he overtook much of the field and with great strategy powered ahead of the other drivers and won comfortably

 

The 2 laps down comparison being the UK under Gordon Brown's mismanagement, and the great strategy being Osborne's policies

What planet are you living on? Overtaking 2008 in 2014 is NOT A GREAT REVIVAL! Most other countries managed this years ago!

 

We were RECOVERING under Gordon Brown. Osborne stalled us even further and for bugger all gain as the deficit's STILL massive. We had 1.2% growth in the last quarter Labour were in power for - had the stimulus been allowed to continue, we'd have been at this point two, three years ago and the deficit would've been sorting itself out.

At some point though, most of your plans have to run into money Danny. Lenders are wary enough as it is about stumping up cash for current (as opposed to capital) spending, as it's the one thing you shouldn't be borrowing for - if your income isn't covering your constant outgoings, you're getting into trouble if you don't have a good long-term plan on how to cover that. Borrowing vast sums of money to employ everyone unemployed currently is totally ruinous - you're borrowing for ongoing spending and potentially really inefficient spending (yeah, the public sector could do with a lot more employees. 1 million of them though? With a large proportion of them unskilled?). It's not the kind of policy you could maintain for long without putting taxes up to pre-Thatcher levels, and there's no guarantee that would be able to generate as much as it did pre-Thatcher given globalisation's in and capital controls are out.

 

Which is why, imo, one of the biggest issues over the next 10-20 years is going to be a global crackdown on tax avoidance. All the big countries clubbing together and agreeing to close tax loopholes, introducing universal standardised tax rates for the rich, and imposing sanctions on any country that refuses to comply. Getting the rich to pay up, rather than squirrelling all their money away in tax havens as at present and thinking they can hold governments to ransom with their threats of "leaving the country" if they're made to pay, is the only way to pay the bills in the long run without Western societies collapsing to pre-20th century levels.

 

(While I'm off on this tangent, this is one of the strongest arguments in favour of staying in the EU, that united we have the might to stand up to the US and China on important issues like this and safeguarding our European societies. I highly doubt any of the leading pro-EU politicians in this country have the political nous to realise this is a good argument though, and they'll probably continue with painfully weak arguments like "big businesses don't want us to leave" or dubious statistics about how much leaving the EU would knock off our GDP or something.)

 

(Also, anonymous briefings or not, I'm pretty sure the next Labour government isn't about to chuck 90% of people off DSA. Let's be real here Danny.)

 

It's not even really the policies that matter, it's the fact that this kind of talk from people in the public eye is legitimising public scapegoating of people with mental health problems -- if you already have chronically low self-esteem, being constantly told you're a pathetic waste of space who's leeching off society can quite obviously be devastating (and, ironically, makes it even less likely that that person will ever be well enough to work). Labour should be utterly ashamed of the part they're playing in that.

Edited March 10, 201411 yr by Danny

Instead of creating non jobs with local authorities that Labour will do with other peoples money it is far better to encourage enterprise and encourage more people to start their own businesses, the successful start ups then create jobs

 

The government instead of subsidising people to sweep floors and make tea for local authority workers, should be getting the unemployed to start their own businesses anyone who wants to start a business (subject to meeting certain criteria) a grant of a couple of thousand and the government take a 49.9% stake in these businesses so if they become a success the government has a stake and can get its money back and more

Even if that were your first post on the site I still wouldn't be able to take it seriously since you've clearly no idea how small business works. How many unemployed people would, right now, have the means to start a business? How much would it cost to train others in how to do it? How many of the resulting businesses would fail?

 

As has been said, building houses is essential to any recovery. The private sector clearly can't be trusted to do it, and the double whammy of scrapping perfectly good targets for local authorities and Pickles centralising as much power into the DCLG as he can muster means we're further off than we were in 2010.

Even if that were your first post on the site I still wouldn't be able to take it seriously since you've clearly no idea how small business works. How many unemployed people would, right now, have the means to start a business? How much would it cost to train others in how to do it? How many of the resulting businesses would fail?

 

As has been said, building houses is essential to any recovery. The private sector clearly can't be trusted to do it, and the double whammy of scrapping perfectly good targets for local authorities and Pickles centralising as much power into the DCLG as he can muster means we're further off than we were in 2010.

 

Subject to certain criteria being the operative part though, i know an unemployed lad, nephew of a very good friend, he has this great idea for an app, he has done market research, has all the designs in place but what he lacks is the money to take it to market, needs about 2k to complete, he is the sort of person that could be helped in this sort of thing, if the government were to invest 2k in him and take a stake in the venture and it is a success then they would get their money back and more, not everyone is suitable for the world of enterprise but those that are and have a great idea shouldn't be left to rot on the dole

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26504691

 

More terrible news for the 2 Ed's

 

Wages to outstrip inflation by summer, there goes Labour's last real trump card, there wont be a cost of living crisis on a widespread scale in 2015

 

Also the economy is going to be better than it was in 2008 so Labour wont be able to say that we have f***ed up the country

 

Where is this improvement happening exactly, in London and the south-east, i.e natural Tory havens anyway? There has been NO improvement here, in fact with all the cuts it's probably gotten worse.

 

Come on Labour, take 2015!

 

A European Union referendum after all the vitriol spat out by the press over the years would be a disaster.

 

Id feel far more comfortable with the party of the working man back in power.

Where is this improvement happening exactly, in London and the south-east, i.e natural Tory havens anyway? There has been NO improvement here, in fact with all the cuts it's probably gotten worse.

 

Come on Labour, take 2015!

 

A European Union referendum after all the vitriol spat out by the press over the years would be a disaster.

 

Id feel far more comfortable with the party of the working man back in power.

 

Labour are the party of the shirker not the worker

http://www.buzzfeed.com/martinshapland/lab...ax-bonanza-gimd