Congrats Tyron, introducing Godwin's Law into a debate is a sure sign of desperation

 

Well, it's a valid point.

 

Rightwingers who are anti-immigration often claim that they're protecting working-class Brits whose jobs and houses are being taken by immigrants, but they usually end up really showing their true colours when they start picking out immigrants who they ARE ok with. Boris did that in (in one of the lesser-noticed parts of) his speech the other day, he explicitly said he was OK with Australians and New Zealanders coming here (presumably because they're white, English-speaking and generally wealthy, so that makes them fine to take away as many jobs as they want from Brits apparently) but that it was "the population of Transylvania" coming here that was so terrible.

Edited December 1, 201311 yr by Danny

How difficult is it for you to understand that there are millions of people who have no desire to set up their own business? I assume you understand that there are people who have no ambition to climb Everest so why do you think setting up a business is any different? Businesses are important but so are many other things. If you are so keen to work in a country with low taxes, sod off to China.

 

Many don't but those that do, a vast growing number given the last year has been an all time record for new business start ups, should be able to keep more of the money they pay themselves, no one in this country should pay more than 25% tax imho, there should be a lower rate of 10% for low paid workers too

Well, it's a valid point.

 

Rightwingers who are anti-immigration often claim that they're protecting working-class Brits whose jobs and houses are being taken by immigrants, but they usually end up really showing their true colours when they start picking out immigrants who they ARE ok with. Boris did that in (in one of the lesser-noticed parts of) his speech the other day, he explicitly said he was OK with Australians and New Zealanders coming here (presumably because they're white, English-speaking and generally wealthy, so that makes them fine to take away as many jobs as they want from Brits apparently) but that it was "the population of Transylvania" coming here that was so terrible.

 

Boris didn't say that, he said that it is wrong for Cameron to celebrate a fall in the number of New Zealanders while being powerless to stop 90% of Transylvania moving to London, New Zealanders was just a throwaway comment, he could equally have said Indians, Chinese, Americans or whatever, New Zealand was just the first name in the head, his comments were a dig at the EU rules that we are forced to abide by

Many don't but those that do, a vast growing number given the last year has been an all time record for new business start ups, should be able to keep more of the money they pay themselves, no one in this country should pay more than 25% tax imho, there should be a lower rate of 10% for low paid workers too

Your great heroine thought a 60% tax rate was perfectly acceptable for most of her term in office. Where exactly are you going to generate the extra revenue by this ludicrous suggestion that makes Osborne seem almost competent? And why do you think the number of major countries with tax rates anywhere near those you propose is precisely zero?

Boris didn't say that, he said that it is wrong for Cameron to celebrate a fall in the number of New Zealanders while being powerless to stop 90% of Transylvania moving to London, New Zealanders was just a throwaway comment, he could equally have said Indians, Chinese, Americans or whatever, New Zealand was just the first name in the head, his comments were a dig at the EU rules that we are forced to abide by

We and all the other 27 members. It's called a free market. I thought Tories were supposed to favour free markets.

Your great heroine thought a 60% tax rate was perfectly acceptable for most of her term in office. Where exactly are you going to generate the extra revenue by this ludicrous suggestion that makes Osborne seem almost competent? And why do you think the number of major countries with tax rates anywhere near those you propose is precisely zero?

 

It would be revenue neutral as more who avoid tax now would pay it, the cut to 45p has bought in more money from highest paid taxpayers than the 50p rate has so imagine what 25p would do, a cut to 25p would also unleash an extra wave of enterprise, plus wealthy foreigners would come here in droves because of our low tax system

We and all the other 27 members. It's called a free market. I thought Tories were supposed to favour free markets.

 

There needs to be a free market but not a free for all

 

I support immigration of hard working and law abiding citizens from other countries, they make a great contribution to our country

 

What i dont support is people coming here who dont want to work or want to break the law

 

That is why i support reform of the benefits system with regards to EU immigrants

Edited December 1, 201311 yr by Sandro Raniere

It would be revenue neutral as more who avoid tax now would pay it, the cut to 45p has bought in more money from highest paid taxpayers than the 50p rate has so imagine what 25p would do, a cut to 25p would also unleash an extra wave of enterprise, plus wealthy foreigners would come here in droves because of our low tax system

And your evidence that it would be revenue neutral comes from where?

 

Many politicians have said that by the time you get fed up with repeating a message, it is just about starting to get through to people. You seem determined to prove that. It has been explained to you countless times why the cut to 45p may bring in more revenue than the 50p rate but I'll try and explain it again just in case you understand it this time round. It really is very simple so I can't make out why you can't understand it. Here we go. I'll try to keep to single syllable words as much as I can.

 

We all knew one year before the rate changed that it would come down. Many folk who paid 50% could see to it that some of their pay for the last year of the 50% rate was not paid until the year the 45% rate came in. So they paid some tax in 2013-14 which should have been paid in 2012-13.

 

There you are. Sorry there were one or two long words.

There needs to be a free market but not a free for all

 

I support immigration of hard working and law abiding citizens from other countries, they make a great contribution to our country

 

What i dont support is people coming here who dont want to work or want to break the law

 

That is why i support reform of the benefits system with regards to EU immigrants

The overwhelming majority of people coming here do want to work. BTW there are more Britons in Germany claiming benefits than there are EU migrants in Britain claiming benefits. I don't suppose the Mail reported that.

Godwin's Law. We should introduce a new BuzzJack one called Craig's Law: "As a debate with Craig grows longer, the likelihood of hyperbole, anecdotal evidence or total bollocks to come out of his mouth approaches 1 (though it most cases already starts at 1)".

Congrats Tyron, introducing Godwin's Law into a debate is a sure sign of desperation

Apart from the fact that it is literally totally relevant because you're generalising an entire people by the race they're from. Awkward.

 

Plus, I wasn't actually making reference to the Nazis, but the fact that you could equally have made the same moronic and bigoted comment with the same rationale about Jews fleeing Germany in the wake of Kristallnacht and countries like the UK/America/Australia turning them away.

Edited December 1, 201311 yr by Cassandra

And your evidence that it would be revenue neutral comes from where?

 

Many politicians have said that by the time you get fed up with repeating a message, it is just about starting to get through to people. You seem determined to prove that. It has been explained to you countless times why the cut to 45p may bring in more revenue than the 50p rate but I'll try and explain it again just in case you understand it this time round. It really is very simple so I can't make out why you can't understand it. Here we go. I'll try to keep to single syllable words as much as I can.

 

We all knew one year before the rate changed that it would come down. Many folk who paid 50% could see to it that some of their pay for the last year of the 50% rate was not paid until the year the 45% rate came in. So they paid some tax in 2013-14 which should have been paid in 2012-13.

 

There you are. Sorry there were one or two long words.

 

I cant be expected to give accurate financial projections after 3/4 of a bottle of wine

 

But with a tax cut down to 25p for everyone :

 

1) There will be a lot less tax avoidance and tax evasion

2) There will be an increase in retail sales which would mean more revenue in VAT

3) Companies will take on more workers to cope with the demand so there will be less unemployed

4) More businesses will start up, these businesses would in many if not most cases employ staff, again more paying tax less on dole

5) More foreigners will come from countries like India, China, Singapore, France, America etc so they would be paying tax

 

I have had too much wine to do detailed research but my opinion stands

Apart from the fact that it is literally totally relevant because you're generalising an entire people by the race they're from. Awkward.

 

I have never advocated exterminating roma or exporting them to death camps or labour camps, merely expressed the fact that there must be something about them if so many civilised countries like France, Italy and Germany simply don't want them.

Re-read the post Craig. My point wasn't about exterminating the Roma. Plenty of countries didn't want the Jews when they were fleeing Germany before the war.

I cant be expected to give accurate financial projections after 3/4 of a bottle of wine

 

But with a tax cut down to 25p for everyone :

 

1) There will be a lot less tax avoidance and tax evasion

2) There will be an increase in retail sales which would mean more revenue in VAT

3) Companies will take on more workers to cope with the demand so there will be less unemployed

4) More businesses will start up, these businesses would in many if not most cases employ staff, again more paying tax less on dole

5) More foreigners will come from countries like India, China, Singapore, France, America etc so they would be paying tax

 

I have had too much wine to do detailed research but my opinion stands

But that's all it is, an opinion. There is no evidence whatsoever that any reduction in avoidance will outweigh the loss of tax from higher rate payers. Evasion is irrelevant. That is illegal and more should be done about that rather than concentrating on people getting a few quid extra in benefits.

 

There may be some increase in spending but not on the scale you seem to think. Unless the 25% rate kicks in at a fairly high level of pay, some lower paid people will pay more tax and, therefore, have less to spend. However, they are the very people who would spend any extra money they had. Of course, if that was spent on food and clothing, it would also make no difference to tax revenue. The people who would gain the most would not increase spending as they already have more than they can possibly spend.

 

Suddenly you seem to want more foreigners to come here. Please make up your mind.

 

Where is the evidence to suggest that a significant number of people would be inspired to set up their own business? Most people starting a business would expect to start on a fairly low salary so would be unaffected by any change. Or do you have this idea that a successful small business will become a major multinational within a few months?

 

As ever, your opinion is from fantasy land.

Re-read the post Craig. My point wasn't about exterminating the Roma. Plenty of countries didn't want the Jews when they were fleeing Germany before the war.

Supported by his beloved Daily Mail. You know, that rag that published a column by its proprietor under the headline "Hurrah for the blackshirts". Of course, the rag remains owned by the same family but somehow they think it is unfair to point to that whereas it is totally fair to attack Ed Miliband using (distortions of) his father's views.

Re-read the post Craig. My point wasn't about exterminating the Roma. Plenty of countries didn't want the Jews when they were fleeing Germany before the war.

 

Lessons have been learned though, there is no chance of history repeating itself there like happened with the jews

But that's all it is, an opinion. There is no evidence whatsoever that any reduction in avoidance will outweigh the loss of tax from higher rate payers. Evasion is irrelevant. That is illegal and more should be done about that rather than concentrating on people getting a few quid extra in benefits.

 

There may be some increase in spending but not on the scale you seem to think. Unless the 25% rate kicks in at a fairly high level of pay, some lower paid people will pay more tax and, therefore, have less to spend. However, they are the very people who would spend any extra money they had. Of course, if that was spent on food and clothing, it would also make no difference to tax revenue. The people who would gain the most would not increase spending as they already have more than they can possibly spend.

 

Suddenly you seem to want more foreigners to come here. Please make up your mind.

 

Where is the evidence to suggest that a significant number of people would be inspired to set up their own business? Most people starting a business would expect to start on a fairly low salary so would be unaffected by any change. Or do you have this idea that a successful small business will become a major multinational within a few months?

 

As ever, your opinion is from fantasy land.

 

Depends on the business

 

Someone setting up a restaurant will have to employ at least 1 chef, at least a couple of waiters/waitresses

 

Someone setting up a hairdressers or beauty salon would have to employ hairdressers and nail technicians and people who do waxing

 

Someone starting up a shop would need to employ staff

 

Thats just 3 examples, no need for multi nationals or anything, 10000 of those examples i gave across the country starting up you are probably talking 30/40000 people recruited

 

Supported by his beloved Daily Mail. You know, that rag that published a column by its proprietor under the headline "Hurrah for the blackshirts". Of course, the rag remains owned by the same family but somehow they think it is unfair to point to that whereas it is totally fair to attack Ed Miliband using (distortions of) his father's views.

 

I read the following papers in order of preference

 

Daily Telegraph

The Times

The Independent

The Sun

Daily Mail

 

 

Daily Express

Daily Mirror

Guardian

Daily Star

 

My only interest in the Daily Mail is it is great for Lady Gaga gossip, Peter Hitchens column, Liz Jones winding people up, and i also love trolling the comments pages under a few aliases to wind up lefties and get them worked up

Supported by his beloved Daily Mail. You know, that rag that published a column by its proprietor under the headline "Hurrah for the blackshirts". Of course, the rag remains owned by the same family but somehow they think it is unfair to point to that whereas it is totally fair to attack Ed Miliband using (distortions of) his father's views.

 

Last time i bought a physical copy of the Daily Mail was at least 18 months ago

 

On this very forum i strongly condemned the attacks on Miliband in terms of his dad, a search of my posts would back this up