Hello there,

 

After a few things popped up last time round I thought I'd make a discussion thread so the next one can be the best yet.

 

Firstly, the amount of entrants. We've so far gone 26 - 29 - 31. I intended to make the limit 30 however as 31 people wanted to enter last time I think it would've been harsh to just stop one from doing so, an extra song doesn't really make that much difference. However there are a couple of people who said there were too many. I personally think a limit of 30 participants is fine, but no more than that. Does anyone have any better suggestions than what I'd been using, where the people who entered the previous contest have 24 hours to confirm their place, and after that it's first come, first served?

 

Also, the songs / rules. The song not being a top 75 hit, the act never charting in the top 20 and not being on the release schedule makes the choices fairly unknown. However, there can still be songs which can be entered that shouldn't be able to, and ones which really could be are banned. From the contest just gone, pretty much everyone knows Foals, their album from this year has been one of the more discussed in this forum in the last 12 months, but with a number 26 hit and their singles from this era all being total commercial flops, the entire album would've been allowed in. I doubt more than a third of the entrants hadn't heard 'Miami' before, does it really add anything to the contest? To a much lesser extent, 'Hello' is something I've seen on music channels twice in the past couple of days, however would many people actually have heard it before this? I know I hadn't.

 

On the other hand (I'd love to say I did this as an experiment but I was genuinely just being stupid), when checking no act had previously charted within the top 20, I managed to miss that Bell XI's 'Flame' was a number 65 hit 4 1/2 years ago. No one mentioned it. Did anyone know? Had anyone heard it previously? Should it have been allowed? I don't see how it being entered did any harm, a lot of people obviously liked it and discovered something, surely the whole aim of the contest.

 

Maybe a tightening of the rules to disallow anyone who's had a top 10 album, but also put a slight human element in them as well (where I and someone else, a volunteer hopefully, to keep it impartial) so something along the lines of 'Celestica' by Crystal Castles would be banned as we could deem it too well known on this site, but 'Keep Hope Alive' by Crystal Method would be allowed to count.

 

Looking at the 2011 calendar, I would hope to do the results for the next one in just under two months time, some point towards the end of the second week of January. It'll be the last one I host before passing it on. Because it's in the Xmas / New Year period, I might leave it open longer and have a clear date for sending the songs a few days previous, so people don't miss out.

-I think 30 should be the limit, but obviously if it's just one more person it doesnt make that much difference. I found it hard to get through all the songs this time (just recently started full time work), where as i find it fairer to listen to them all at least twice, something I just didnt find the time for this time.

 

-I'd actually be pro-harsh rules, such as the act not entering the top 40 singles and top 20 albums, I wouldnt like the idea of this being restricted to certain genres but it did slightly annoy me how many tracks this time were so similar. I think the fact acts like Crystal Castles and Foals can be entered is an issue. Possibly a rule where if there is a thread on said act that has more than x posts should be banned?

 

-I had heard of Bell XI before, but not heard them, I had no idea of how much success they have had (but knew they have had enough to me to at least know the band name but I could have picked the name up from anywhere doesnt mean they have a large success.

 

-The xmas new year period seems a good time to have the next one just because most people will have more free time at that period.

I always thought no top 75 singles was a bit too harsh, but then it was there to try and counter the buzz single phenomena that arises from albums - so if you had no top twenty albums and no top forty singles, with no act that has had a top twenty single, then that'd be the way I think.

You definitely have to ban acts that have had top 10/20 albums as at the moment I think Led Zeppelin (let alone lesser acts) could actually qualify under the current rules. Also the ban on acts that have popular threads on the site is a good idea (i.e. Crystal Castles)

So far... the tracks I've used haven't had much chart success. I didn't know Bell XI existed till I came across them in this competition, its a discovery for me, and the next act that I'm planning to use for the next contest, has not even had chart success whatsoever. Most of the acts I discover are thru members personal charts, like for instance Stars and Diamond Rings. This is the type of music genre I like and finding new discoveries.

 

I'll find the contest is just right, Foals was the odd track in the last comp, just the one track I didn't vote for because I know it and it fell old to me, where I can allocate points to another track instead, to be honest I was surprised someone used Foals. Same goes for that Tokyo track as I have used it for my personal chart so I was aware of it.

 

30 constestants seems fine to me as well, another idea if new members want to enter the comp, is to regulate the bottom 2 to 5 constestants and they get top priority in the next game.

I agree that 30 (or 31 which means most people are judging 30 songs) should be the limit. That's at least two hours to hear each song all the way through.

 

The rules probably should be a bit more flexible even though that means having an extra person to make a judgement. Certainly Led Zeppelin should not be allowed.

 

I was aware of Bell XI although I'm not sure whether I had actually heard anything by them and it would probably have been a bit harsh to disqualify the song. There are songs which I'd like to enter but which would be disqualified under the current rules.

 

Perhaps priority should only be given to those who finished in, say, the top half last time and then a first come, first served basis after that to try and get more new people involved. Looking ahead, anyone who misses out as a result but still votes might also get priority next time.

i think if it comes to the point people miss out a comp due to the limit being filled they should get priority for the next contest.

 

 

it would be nice if everyone just entered songs that they know arent very known and ones they want to reccomend to other people that they wouldnt have heard before, rather tha particulary trying to pick a song that would win the contest, because in the end this is about discovering music you wouldnt have heard otherwise, rather than trying to win a competition, in the end i coldnt really care what wins UP or where I've come as long as I have discovered some music I wouldnt have heard otherwise and have introduced a track/a band to people who wouldnt have heard them otherwise.

in the end i coldnt really care what wins UP or where I've come as long as I have discovered some music I wouldnt have heard otherwise and have introduced a track/a band to people who wouldnt have heard them otherwise.

This is exactly where UP stands or falls. I'm lucky enough to have found at least three fantastic tracks during the first three contests and none of these were known to me.

 

I did know Bell X1 previously as I had charted a song off their last album but I did not know they had reached the Top 75 with Flock. Would have been harsh to have disallowed it. Maybe there should be a time limit on tracks that reached 41-75 in the charts i.e. nothing that reached those positions from within the last 2 or 3 years.

On the other hand (I'd love to say I did this as an experiment but I was genuinely just being stupid), when checking no act had previously charted within the top 20, I managed to miss that Bell XI's 'Flame' was a number 65 hit 4 1/2 years ago. No one mentioned it. Did anyone know? Had anyone heard it previously? Should it have been allowed? I don't see how it being entered did any harm, a lot of people obviously liked it and discovered something, surely the whole aim of the contest.

 

 

I have to say I hadn't checked either before I entered it. It was a hit in Ireland and people who had varying tastes in music seemed to love it so I thought people might like it here. I checked Wiki for it's release date and I noticed it made number 65 in the UK when it was too late.

 

So maybe I look like a bit of hypocrite when I grumbled about Miami being submitted. Sorry.

 

I am really enjoying this competition, I get excited about it and I'm really grateful that you put the work into it, RFC. It is the best thing about this site, for me. I've discovered maybe 10 tracks that I will be playing for many a year.

Plus I did say in one of the other threads that I would do an Ultimate Unknown Pleasures 2010 where everyone could list the 10 best songs they discovered in this year's three competitions, it wouldn't have to be a secret ballot, I would do the sums and do a run down.

 

That's if RabbitFurCoat doesn't have any similar or contrasting ideas and if there is interest. I don't want to be stepping on anyone's toes. '

I had the idea on ChC where the winners of all the UP that had taken place all battled it out for Ultimate Unknown Pleasure. :D It never happened!!! :(

 

Therefore I like Tony's idea; Ultimate Unknown Pleasure 2010. :w00t: It'd be interesting to rate my overall ten fave tracks I've discovered via this competition.

 

To a much lesser extent, 'Hello' is something I've seen on music channels twice in the past couple of days, however would many people actually have heard it before this? I know I hadn't.

 

Dragonette was one of those buzz artists on ChC who everyone ranted and raved over in 2008. :lol: I had only found out about this song when making a comment about the state of the French singles chart. Also I wasn't entirely sure if Martin Solveig would qualify as I knew he'd had a couple of small sized (long forgotton possibly?) UK hits. I chose to enter 'Hello' purely for the song itself rather than the acts involved (maybe some Buzzjackers might've seen Dragonette and thought "pfft, I already know this artist" even though she bombed).

Perhaps priority should only be given to those who finished in, say, the top half last time and then a first come, first served basis after that to try and get more new people involved. Looking ahead, anyone who misses out as a result but still votes might also get priority next time.

 

I would do priority for finishing higher, but I don't want to discourage people from taking risks. I would never have sent something like 'Here's The Tender Coming' if I knew finishing towards the bottom might mean I can't enter next time...

Plus I did say in one of the other threads that I would do an Ultimate Unknown Pleasures 2010 where everyone could list the 10 best songs they discovered in this year's three competitions, it wouldn't have to be a secret ballot, I would do the sums and do a run down.

 

That's if RabbitFurCoat doesn't have any similar or contrasting ideas and if there is interest. I don't want to be stepping on anyone's toes. '

Feel free to do that, I don't really have time and it would certainly be interesting!

Tony's idea is brilliant. I will definitely participate.

 

About the rules: I suggest that the act should have neither Top 40 single nor Top 40 album and the song can't be in current release schedule. There would still be loads and loads of great acts to choose from.

 

Most of us will choose something relatively unknown anyway. Foals, Dragonette, Mew, Animal Collective etc. have sort of flopped. The only act I can think of being helped by hype is The Hundred in the Hands.

 

Regarding the rules - one of the songs I have lined up is a number 55 hit from 1997. They only had this one great song and I feel that more people should know it.

Regarding the rules - one of the songs I have lined up is a number 55 hit from 1997. They only had this one great song and I feel that more people should know it.

 

In UPII, I entered Momus 'Hairstyle Of The Devil' - a #94 UK smash in May 1989. What I find astonishing is that for a 21 year old track, it still sounds relatively decent now unlike a lot of the S/A/W stuff that occupied top 10 most of the year.

Maybe if we restricted it to:

 

>> Artist never had a Top 40 single

> >Artist never had a Top 20 album

 

..that would be fairer, then the odd song that peaked at say, #57, would be still be allowed but at the same time excludes acts (like Foals) that have either made the Top 40 singles chart a few times or had a relatively successful album?

 

The thing I wanted to know was how do people feel about featured vocals.. say if unknown artist that qualifies under the rules teams up with someone who is disqualified - would that still be allowed?

Edited November 20, 201014 yr by Doctor Blind

I might start the thread in the next few weeks.

The thing I wanted to know was how do people feel about featured vocals.. say if unknown artist that qualifies under the rules teams up with someone who is disqualified - would that still be allowed?

 

One of my candidates has a pretty high profile featured artist so would like to know the exact rules here as well.

Edited November 20, 201014 yr by SKOB

I think if the featured artist would be banned normally then they should be banned anyway.