Chris... true music fans do not steal music - end of.

 

And this chatter of DJing with CD players and MP3s? Yes... sacrilege. Absolutely. I've DJ'd for over 20 years - CDs and MP3s are a ghastly, cop-out alternative to vinyl. But they're handy for people who aren't very good DJs, I give you that.

 

 

Then I'm not a music fan. I steal it all the time. But I also pay for lots of it too.

Sorry but f*** you, you really do sprout some $h!t sometimes.

 

No need to come across all Kevin teenager, Chris... maybe keep the 'f*ck yous' for the NME messageboards - it's about their mentality and age bracket. Whilst certain members here think that yes, this is the way to put your opinion forward, umm.. nah, it's not. Not ever.

 

However.... illegal downloading is stealing - end of. If you want to 'discover music'...er...what the hell's wrong with YouTube? 99% of music, however alternative, is on there...... you can listen, decide if you like... then either buy or not bother. Surely this is a fairer way to 'discover music'?

 

Same for your Dad - there's been times when I, too, can't afford to purchase the music I want..... so I listen online. I make a wish list then, Christmas, birthdays or when I can afford, then I buy.

 

I'm 1000% against music theft, illegal downloading...... it's inexcusable in this day and age. In the long run we all lose and to say artists don't make money from CD album sales is total nonsense... plus, if an album fails to shift units, digital or physical, then the right of the artist to release their music commercially is taken away from them - because record companies these days simply drop them due to them not being able to afford to hold onto artists that don't bring in returns.

 

Unlike say a shop that's insured for shoplifting - record companies don't get any compensation once an album is leaked, stolen and then distributed to thousands.

No need to come across all Kevin teenager, Chris... maybe keep the 'f*ck yous' for the NME messageboards - it's about their mentality and age bracket. Whilst certain members here think that yes, this is the way to put your opinion forward, umm.. nah, it's not. Not ever.

 

However.... illegal downloading is stealing - end of. If you want to 'discover music'...er...what the hell's wrong with YouTube? 99% of music, however alternative, is on there...... you can listen, decide if you like... then either buy or not bother. Surely this is a fairer way to 'discover music'?

 

Same for your Dad - there's been times when I, too, can't afford to purchase the music I want..... so I listen online. I make a wish list then, Christmas, birthdays or when I can afford, then I buy.

 

I'm 1000% against music theft, illegal downloading...... it's inexcusable in this day and age. In the long run we all lose and to say artists don't make money from CD album sales is total nonsense... plus, if an album fails to shift units, digital or physical, then the right of the artist to release their music commercially is taken away from them - because record companies these days simply drop them due to them not being able to afford to hold onto artists that don't bring in returns.

 

Unlike say a shop that's insured for shoplifting - record companies don't get any compensation once an album is leaked, stolen and then distributed to thousands.

 

No need to come across all elitist prick in 90% of your posts.

 

However.... illegal downloading is SHARING - end of. What is wrong with YouTube is that I want to listen to music as an album in high quality (because i'm such a music fan that poor YouTube streaming bitrate is just not good enough for me). As Grimly made the point before, bands get f*** all from record sales, i don't really need to buy all my music to just feed "the man", I'd perfer to illegally download all of a bands albums then pay to see them live and buy their merchandise so I am supporting the music I love in the most effective way.

 

May I direct you to a brilliant pro-file sharing article by Rob Sheridan, http://www.demonbaby.com/blog/2007/10/when...k-birth-of.html

Filesharing is theft. I admit it. But I've lined enough pockets over the last two and a bit decades to be worried.

I just don't know how anyone can see sharing the music you love as a crime. Music is made (or should be made) to be listened to, not to limit what you listen to because you have to buy every single thing you want.

Well copyright is there for a reason - so that the creator of something has the right not to have it copied or replicated without their permission. I can see how it could be seen as a crime to copy music.

Filesharing is theft. I admit it. But I've lined enough pockets over the last two and a bit decades to be worried.

 

Same here. I reckon over the 25 years I've been a serious music fan, I've contributed a small fortune to record company coffers. I don't regard filesharing as theft anymore than when me and my mates used to club together and buy an album and make copies for the others, theft only occurs when someone makes a profit, no one is making money as such off of file-sharing, no one is CHARGING anyone to download an album on file-share sites.. PIRATING DVDs or CDs and selling them in pubs or markets is definitely theft, but that's a whole different animal.. And I don't exactly see much tough-talk from from the BPI or the Govt on that one, probably because they're $h!t scared of the organised crime gangs who run pirate trade and not quite so scared of the Net Geeks who run The Pirate Bay or Mininova....

 

C/unts

I just don't know how anyone can see sharing the music you love as a crime. Music is made (or should be made) to be listened to, not to limit what you listen to because you have to buy every single thing you want.

 

Because whether you can accept it or not - musicians and record companies DO still make money from sales of physical and digital releases. And obviously without this money, however big or small, bands will NOT have the opportunity to release ANYTHING because they'll get dropped - simple. Whilst music is an art form, it's an art form supported by heavy handed businessmen who think nothing of dropping an artist of promise because they've failed to shift the required amount of units.

 

And whilst you put forward that you spend money on gigs etc... err... who finances tours? Yes - record companies. Why? To shift units. If units don't shift = no tours. Bands tour for one reason only - to promote product. Tours are usually financed on the understanding that the record company will make this loan back on the back of sales after the shows. If these sales don't happen..... what happends then? Do you really think any record company will finance a tour, something that's incredibly and increasingly expensive, if the artist's music isn't selling? Of course not.

 

So stealing music... you're your own worst enemy. Music theft has resulted in the lack of a single record shop on most high streets these days, it's resulted in less-selling smaller bands being dropped by nervous labels. It's resulted in bands throwing in the towel because they just can't make a decent wage out of the industry any more. And worse than all this, it's cheapened the industry - made music something that's throwaway..... when you actually PAY for something, you usually treasure it more - a slow-buning album, for example, if I'd paid good money for it, I'd be more inclined to persevere with it than just disregard it and forget about it stashed away on my hard drive among a glut of other stuff I like a bit more right now.

 

There's a difference in listening to something and pinching it. And then, even worse, AFTER pinching it, sharing it along the line to others. It doesn't matter whether you charge for copying CDs for mates or not - that's irrelevant.

 

best Regards

Elitist Prick

Because whether you can accept it or not - musicians and record companies DO still make money from sales of physical and digital releases. And obviously without this money, however big or small, bands will NOT have the opportunity to release ANYTHING because they'll get dropped - simple. Whilst music is an art form, it's an art form supported by heavy handed businessmen who think nothing of dropping an artist of promise because they've failed to shift the required amount of units.

 

And whilst you put forward that you spend money on gigs etc... err... who finances tours? Yes - record companies. Why? To shift units. If units don't shift = no tours. Bands tour for one reason only - to promote product. Tours are usually financed on the understanding that the record company will make this loan back on the back of sales after the shows. If these sales don't happen..... what happends then? Do you really think any record company will finance a tour, something that's incredibly and increasingly expensive, if the artist's music isn't selling? Of course not.

 

So stealing music... you're your own worst enemy. Music theft has resulted in the lack of a single record shop on most high streets these days, it's resulted in less-selling smaller bands being dropped by nervous labels. It's resulted in bands throwing in the towel because they just can't make a decent wage out of the industry any more. And worse than all this, it's cheapened the industry - made music something that's throwaway..... when you actually PAY for something, you usually treasure it more - a slow-buning album, for example, if I'd paid good money for it, I'd be more inclined to persevere with it than just disregard it and forget about it stashed away on my hard drive among a glut of other stuff I like a bit more right now.

 

There's a difference in listening to something and pinching it. And then, even worse, AFTER pinching it, sharing it along the line to others. It doesn't matter whether you charge for copying CDs for mates or not - that's irrelevant.

 

best Regards

Elitist Prick

 

Yeah if they don't sell they will get dropped, thats what happened to The Futureheads, and oh look now they are independent and more successful, thats what also happened to Reel Big Fish, and oh look now they are independent and more successful, NIN's contract ended and decided to not renew, gave away albums for free, and now they are bigger than ever, most bands make a f***ing tiny amount out of record sales, Streetlight Manifesto being one of them, they actually ask fans to buy their merch and go to gigs rather than buy the CD, because if they buy the CD they will get f*** all money for it, they consantly tour, not funded by the record label i may add, just so they can survive. If bands tour for no reason apart from to promote product then how come pretty much every band who isnt massive are constantly touring in order to afford to pay rent and food, rather than to promote product. You need to wake up and realise that the music industry has changed bands no longer tour to promote product, they release music to promote tours.

 

How is it even worse sharing it, how f***ing dare I hear a band or album I like and then share it AND GIVE THEM MORE EXPOSURE, sharing and discovering music is one of the best things about the community of music fans, why sit here and keep the music we love to ourselves?

 

For someone who started this off by saying people who download are not "true music fans" you really are a bit of a joke of a music fan.

 

You share the same backward views that record companies do that they don't realise that the industry has changed and instead they just sue the crap out of music fans, the people who consume their products, rather than actually work to adapt to the current way music fans want to consume music.

 

As I said before, you need to stop sprouting $h!t because most the stuff you are saying only applies to acts that make the top ten only.

 

And YOU, sunshine, need to wake up and grow up...and realise the correct way in an ADULT conversation is not to insult and swear - it makes you appear about 15 years old with a protruding bottom lip and a hurt look on your face - most embarrassing.

 

I think you're talking out of your arse, by the way - you have some rose-tinted view of an industry that is dying..... tours these days HARDLY EVER make any money - hence ticket prices are sky high, attendances are so low and bands are touring less and less (unless they're touring sweatshops, workingmen's clubs and suburban university halls).

 

Plus, the bands you mention are bands that never ever ever shifted units anyway, major label or not.... I'd like some examples of bands who tour just for the hell of it who still sell deent amounts of their music.... because you've failed to provide these in your last post.

 

And saring music for free - giving bands more exposure?!?!? You say this as if you're very kindly doing them a favour by robbing their music then passing it on to your mates - for free. Oh please... wake up. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well, I've also become a convert to the "Digital Revolution" (although, surely the Digital Revolution really began with CD, as that is itself a digital format), and I DARE anyone to say that I'm not a "true music fan"... Firstly, MP3s make my life a hell of a lot easier when I'm DJing, I can do everything off a lap-top with Tracktor or Virtual DJ, "Sacrilege" I hear people say, well, I'm sure that was said when CD decks were making their ways into clubs in the 1990s.... And, actually, with Tracktor, you can be seriously creative in beat-matching, live mixing and so-on... And, I can travel anywhere with my ENTIRE music collection of well over 2000 albums on my lap-top (which weighs less than 2kg), yeah, try doing THAT with physical formats, you'd need fukkin' VAN as opposed to just getting on the bus or a tube with your laptop, not to mention the fact that flight-cases of CDs or vinyl weigh significantly more than 2kg.... :lol:

 

So, sorry guys, I have absolutely no issues with MP3s, I think it's a great format, and it's easily the format I use by far the most these days, I have a 16gig Smart-phone with about 100 albums on it, I constantly listen to music when on the bus or the tube, or just out walking, so I am not going to entertain any notions at all that somehow listening to MP3s makes you any less of a music fan, that's an argument based on the worst kind of elitism and snobbery as far as I'm concerned... Art-work is great, it can augment the whole package, true, but one can actually download high-definition JPEGs of a lot of album art-work, or look at lyrics posted online....

 

I agree. The thought of DJing with vinyl seems like a nightmare and makes you wonder how DJs managed prior to the era of mp3 and even CD mixing desks (which I presently have). On the other hand, I miss vinyl, the opening of a record for the first time with a shine and smell (usually of celery?!) of NEW! I'm all for downloading and on second thoughts, I don't advocate the notion that downloading is more for the casual listener; I think it's a case of different strokes for different folks.

 

On the other hand, I have about 750/800 CD singles (predominantly house and dance) from as far back as late 80s to present day. I still buy on CD single when I can as I think, with the physical single format drawing to a close, these final pressings will be (I think) rare collectables! I'm decorating the entire wall of the spare bedroom with CD singles, looks a damn sight more interesting then a generic print from Ikea and always gets a nod or approval from visitors!

And YOU, sunshine, need to wake up and grow up...and realise the correct way in an ADULT conversation is not to insult and swear - it makes you appear about 15 years old with a protruding bottom lip and a hurt look on your face - most embarrassing.

 

I think you're talking out of your arse, by the way - you have some rose-tinted view of an industry that is dying..... tours these days HARDLY EVER make any money - hence ticket prices are sky high, attendances are so low and bands are touring less and less (unless they're touring sweatshops, workingmen's clubs and suburban university halls).

 

Plus, the bands you mention are bands that never ever ever shifted units anyway, major label or not.... I'd like some examples of bands who tour just for the hell of it who still sell deent amounts of their music.... because you've failed to provide these in your last post.

 

And saring music for free - giving bands more exposure?!?!? You say this as if you're very kindly doing them a favour by robbing their music then passing it on to your mates - for free. Oh please... wake up. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

You need to realise the correct way in an ADULT conversation is to not dismiss other peoples opinions and realise that your own opinion may not be the best, which is how you appear to act in about every thread.

 

i don't know what bands your seeing live but tours appear to be at a high at the momment, many selling out or coming close to even for smaller bands, just look at how popular music festivals are these days.

 

ok some of those bands didnt really shift units anyway, but thats part of the point i'm making, they arent shifting units despite being on major record labels due to labels' lack of being able to adapt to how the industry HAS changed, which is why these bands are touring, i never said bands tour for the hell of it and still make decent amounts of their music, i am saying they are touring so they can actually afford to live, infact I was talking to a singer of one band after a show last month who was saying about how he worries about money and actually said 'as long as i keep touring i'll never run out', that's one band (The Xcerts), then as I mentioned before Streetlight Manifesto constantly tour, when asked in an interview why one album took so long they replied "we were too busy, bands make nothing from record sales so we were out touring in order to pay rent", thats two bands telling me this, where as you are just assuming why should I be taking your word for it where two talented and great bands such as those are constantly touring to make money because their records don't sell enough yet they have a demand live? Another example are who I mentioned before, are Reel Big Fish, who were on a major and are now independent and they have been constantly touring for probaly their whole career, certainly since I've been a fan, infact they have done a full UK tour every year for I think the past 5 or 6 years now, so clearly they are making money off of it.

 

Sharing music for free does give more exposure, you copy an album for one person who has never heard of a band, they listen and like it, and there you have it a band are now exposed to one more person, now imagine this was being done on the internet how many more people you are sharing the album to, that is exposing the band to many many more people, ok some may just take the album but that means they probaly wouldnt have liked it enough to buy it anyway, but the more who download there is more of those who download and then invest in a band, for example a while ago a friend was telling me about a great band called The Skints, he uploaded the album online for me and I then downloaded it, thought it was alright at first, as in, if i listened to a few tracks on youtube i would not buy the album afterwards, yet after a few listens i feel in love, i now have a ticket to see them for a second time, brought a t-shirt, brought the album and brought their lastest 7", and introduced friends to the band (exposing them more), none of which would have happened if I hadnt downloaded.

Plus, the bands you mention are bands that never ever ever shifted units anyway, major label or not.... I'd like some examples of bands who tour just for the hell of it who still sell deent amounts of their music.... because you've failed to provide these in your last post.

The Charlatans gave away a whole album for free because (as they said) they make much more money touring than they ever could from record sales and they saw this as a way of getting more people into the band.

I think you're talking out of your arse, by the way - you have some rose-tinted view of an industry that is dying..... tours these days HARDLY EVER make any money - hence ticket prices are sky high, attendances are so low and bands are touring less and less (unless they're touring sweatshops, workingmen's clubs and suburban university halls).

 

What the hell are you talking about Russ..? I can hardly get tickets for some of the bigger Indie or Metal acts these days because they're selling out within hours of going online... Okay, not so difficult for the smaller, European Industrial/EBM/Metal acts (such as Project Pitchfork, Amorphis or Combichrist), but the audiences in UK for those acts are pretty niche anyway, selling far more on the continent... Most bands (like Editors, Interpol, NIN, White Lies, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Slipknot, etc) are usually having to put on EXTRA shows in London and other cities due to demand being incredibly high... Don't try and make out that it's not paying them to do so, it must be paying them, or they wouldn't do it, simple as....

 

You're also missing out one very, very important factor as well - MERCHANDISING..... Most bands earn a lot more cash from T-shirts, patches, hats, work-shirts, badges, posters, etc than from selling CDs...... The likes of Iron Maiden and Motorhead have their own merchandising industries more or less...

And another thing no one's considered about vinyl.. When you're with a young lady or a young gentleman, and you're, ahem, "getting busy", do you really wanna be disrupting your flow to turn a bloody record over to side b?? I think not.... lol

I think you're talking out of your arse, by the way - you have some rose-tinted view of an industry that is dying..... tours these days HARDLY EVER make any money - hence ticket prices are sky high, attendances are so low and bands are touring less and less (unless they're touring sweatshops, workingmen's clubs and suburban university halls).

 

lol that statement is so false. what? where are you getting this idea?

I love Russt. If it wasn't for him, I'd be the obnoxious cnut on this website.

I love Russt. If it wasn't for him, I'd be the obnoxious cnut on this website.

 

very kind... however, must be honest.... I didn't realise I'd actually stopped you....

I like to imagine that he is actually Russt Lee and that makes me love him.

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_KWuFApcOXew/SforgD-T2nI/AAAAAAAAA-w/HAhkj0sIE-c/s400/rustie.jpg

 

 

 

I like to imagine that he is actually Russt Lee and that makes me love him.

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_KWuFApcOXew/SforgD-T2nI/AAAAAAAAA-w/HAhkj0sIE-c/s400/rustie.jpg

 

aww... used to love her - that laugh..... unfortunately, I'm the wrong colour, wrong sex and I can't cook ;)