O/T.

 

Vidcapper you're an idiot. That is all.

 

Oh, very eloquent... :rolleyes:

 

All I am saying is that, to me, it is the common element that both US & UK hip-hop/rap share that I dislike (*) - they overwhelm the trivial sub-genre differences.

 

(*) The biggest irritation being the accent - all that yo'ing, ya'ing, etc. is to me like splinters of glass stabbing into my ears.

 

NB, you're free to disagree with me over my music preferences, but at least I've tried to explain why I don't like rap. I just wish some of my biggest critics would explain why *they* like rap?

It's not that you have an opinion, it's that you bring it in like it's not needed. When we talk about charts in here, you do things like THIS SONG TO FLOP just because it's a rap song... it doesn't matter if you like it or not, it just makes you look INCREDIBLY close-minded.

 

And as for those that like rap, you don't have to justify why you like something, do you?! I don't think they'd go to the efforts that YOU do to express your complete and utter dislike for rap music. If you hate something, not everyone needs to know at every available opportunity because it's made your posts utterly predictable and useless. Shame, because you're actually fantastic at the chart statistics and stuff.

And as for those that like rap, you don't have to justify why you like something, do you?!

 

Maybe not - but if I could understand the appeal, then perhaps I could phrase my comments in such a way that would not rub people up the wrong way as much?

 

I don't think they'd go to the efforts that YOU do to express your complete and utter dislike for rap music. If you hate something, not everyone needs to know at every available opportunity because it's made your posts utterly predictable and useless.

Is it 'useless' to rail against uniformity, in music, or indeed any other area? Variety is the spice of life...

 

Shame, because you're actually fantastic at the chart statistics and stuff.

 

At least you threw me one little bone. :P

 

Must be a dream for US artists in the UK. Not only do they get the most airplay they feature on all the highest audience figure shows.

Exactly, that's an interesting issue: US artists get booked for shows based solely on the fact they're "international" acts. Britain's Got Talent and The X Factor, for example, book mostly US acts due to the fact they're seem as "A-listers" compared to their local counterparts and all the exposure helps their popularity. Look at the ratio of how many international acts were on X Facctor compared to local acts (and 90% of UK acts booked were former contestants anyway). Shakira, Avirl Lavigne, Mariah Carey and a bunch of international acts with irrelevant UK sales currently are booked over extremely successful and current local acts based on the fact they're internationally recognized and had huge sales in the UK 10 years ago. It seems kind of dumb.

 

TV priorizes US acts over British acts, that's for sure. Even shows that doesn't have as much impact such as Daybreak. For example, Hanson were on the show a few days ago. A local act with a similar chart run as Hanson in the UK (basically no hits for the last 15 years) would NEVER been booked but they were on the show solely because they're "international". And I think this extra exposure surely helps them over the "looked over" local acts, especially when it comes to shows with humungous viewing figures and influence (X Factor).

Edited June 2, 201114 yr by André

Maybe not - but if I could understand the appeal, then perhaps I could phrase my comments in such a way that would not rub people up the wrong way as much?

 

Is it 'useless' to rail against uniformity, in music, or indeed any other area? Variety is the spice of life...

At least you threw me one little bone. :P

 

It's just because the comments aren't constructive that is the biggest problem, they're basically quite a vicious opinion against a genre. I like a song from EVERY genre I've ever heard and I just think that the way you act, you're trying hard to repel rap music. You don't need to see the appeal, but you just appear close-minded from the way you go about saying things.

Exactly, that's an interesting issue: US artists get booked for shows based solely on the fact they're "international" acts. Britain's Got Talent and The X Factor, for example, book mostly US acts due to the fact they're seem as "A-listers" compared to their local counterparts and all the exposure helps their popularity. Look at the ratio of how many international acts were on X Facctor compared to local acts (and 90% of UK acts booked were former contestants anyway). Shakira, Avirl Lavigne, Mariah Carey and a bunch of international acts with irrelevant UK sales currently are booked over extremely successful and current local acts based on the fact they're internationally recognized and had huge sales in the UK 10 years ago. It seems kind of dumb.

 

TV priorizes US acts over British acts, that's for sure. Even shows that doesn't have as much impact such as Daybreak. For example, Hanson were on the show a few days ago. A local act with a similar chart run as Hanson in the UK (basically no hits for the last 15 years) would NEVER been booked but they were on the show solely because they're "international". And I think this extra exposure surely helps them over the "looked over" local acts, especially when it comes to shows with humungous viewing figures and influence (X Factor).

 

That's probably because the US music industry market is biggest and most of the top 10 Billboard artists there are worldwide known.

 

To be honest, it also helps to bring in viewers.

Exactly, that's an interesting issue: US artists get booked for shows based solely on the fact they're "international" acts. Britain's Got Talent and The X Factor, for example, book mostly US acts due to the fact they're seem as "A-listers" compared to their local counterparts and all the exposure helps their popularity. Look at the ratio of how many international acts were on X Facctor compared to local acts (and 90% of UK acts booked were former contestants anyway). Shakira, Avirl Lavigne, Mariah Carey and a bunch of international acts with irrelevant UK sales currently are booked over extremely successful and current local acts based on the fact they're internationally recognized and had huge sales in the UK 10 years ago. It seems kind of dumb.

 

TV priorizes US acts over British acts, that's for sure. Even shows that doesn't have as much impact such as Daybreak. For example, Hanson were on the show a few days ago. A local act with a similar chart run as Hanson in the UK (basically no hits for the last 15 years) would NEVER been booked but they were on the show solely because they're "international". And I think this extra exposure surely helps them over the "looked over" local acts, especially when it comes to shows with humungous viewing figures and influence (X Factor).

To be fair, that's not necessarily true. Barbarellas (two ex-members of B*Witched, who are from the same era as Hanson) were on LK Today a few months ago. Although they're Irish not British but the point still stands. I've also seen other low-key British acts on shows like this before. Towards the end of last year (I think, possibly the start of this) a fairly unknown British singer called Zarif also performed on GMTV. And there are probably loads of others too as I tend not to watch these kind of shows all the time - I just happened to see these two by coincidence.

 

I don't think this is an issue anyway. Those kind of shows make next to no impact on the chart. X Factor obviously makes a far bigger impact and whilst I agree they're very US-orientated in the acts they put on, like Oricon said, they're only trying to bring in viewers - and, at the end of the day, they're only filling in a few slots on the chart each week. You can't blame them for any American domination.

 

The far bigger issue here is radio and TV (music channels). These are the kind of things that have a big impact all year round, and - as RabbitFurCoat pointed out in some stats a couple of pages back - we're definitely being shut out there, especially on the TV channels.

Edited June 2, 201114 yr by superbossanova

It's just because the comments aren't constructive that is the biggest problem, they're basically quite a vicious opinion against a genre. I like a song from EVERY genre I've ever heard and I just think that the way you act, you're trying hard to repel rap music. You don't need to see the appeal, but you just appear close-minded from the way you go about saying things.

 

There were a few of the very early rap songs I didn't mind, but since the emergence of gangsta rap in the 90's, I haven't really liked any.

The Independent has an interesting article today that discusses this theme somewhat called "The day the music died: how British acts fell out of the pop charts"

 

The situation improved a little this week with a new entry at No 8 from UK girl group The Saturdays. But the only other UK act in the entire Top 20 was Jessie J.As well as the inevitable presence of Lady Gaga, British artists had to cede ground to the Dutch producer Afro Jack, Italian Benny Benassi, French DJ David Guetta, the Swedish House Mafia and Nicki Minaj from Trinidad and Tobago.British pop was even outsold by its Romanian equivalent. The Romanian female singers Alexandra Stan and Inna both enjoyed UK top 20 hits."It's the worst presence in six decades since the pop chart began," said Paul Williams, head of business analysis at Music Week. "The singles chart now resembles the Eurovision scoreboard. We used to face a musical challenge from the US but now it's from dance acts on the Continent too."Although Adele is flying the flag for British music abroad, the predominantly youthful downloaders whose tastes decide the singles chart, have turned against genres like rock, where the UK has traditionally enjoyed success.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertai...ts-2291994.html

The singles chart now resembles the Eurovision scoreboard?

 

Most of those European acts are merely acting as producers behind big name American vocalists, only really Swedish House Mafia, Inna and Alexandra Stan are truly continental hits. It's hardly a European takeover :lol: It's far more American domination than anything else. I could only wish that European dance was the true driving force in the UK charts like it was throughout the 1990s and in 2000!

That article seems extremely overdramatised. If UK music hasn't recovered a bit by the end of the year then we should start worrying but at the moment I think it's just a dry period for British acts...

That article seems extremely overdramatised. If UK music hasn't recovered a bit by the end of the year then we should start worrying but at the moment I think it's just a dry period for British acts...

 

The big UK acts always save their comebacks until the end of the year to wait for X Factor and the xmas sales boost, I have no doubt though that if X Factor was cancelled, releases would start to be more spread out. A month before xmas there were six British acts in the top ten simultaneously (X Factor Finalists, Ellie Goulding, JLS, Olly Murs, Take That and Adele), four of them in the top four and all but Ellie Goulding had X Factor promotion.

The singles chart now resembles the Eurovision scoreboard?

 

Most of those European acts are merely acting as producers behind big name American vocalists, only really Swedish House Mafia, Inna and Alexandra Stan are truly continental hits. It's hardly a European takeover :lol: It's far more American domination than anything else. I could only wish that European dance was the true driving force in the UK charts like it was throughout the 1990s and in 2000!

 

What about something like Sweat by Snoop Dogg? That's been massive all over Europe, but has done nothing in the US.

 

Because Snoop Dogg is American, we classify is as a US song, but firstly, the song has had best chart success in Europe by far, and secondly, if we look at the music itself, rather than the artists, the David Guetta remix sounds much more European than American (I think its melody is sampled from a eurodance song, although you're probably more informed about that than I am :lol:).

 

Same with Beautiful People. It hasn't been successful in the US at all, and musically it's much, much closer to European music than American music, no matter who provides the vocals for it.

 

I just find it weird that we call them American when very few people living in the US will have even heard of those songs, and it's not like they're American-sounding songs either. :lol:

 

The big UK acts always save their comebacks until the end of the year to wait for X Factor and the xmas sales boost, I have no doubt though that if X Factor was cancelled, releases would start to be more spread out. A month before xmas there were six British acts in the top ten simultaneously (X Factor Finalists, Ellie Goulding, JLS, Olly Murs, Take That and Adele), four of them in the top four and all but Ellie Goulding had X Factor promotion.

 

About that top 10, something I've just noticed:

 

X Factor Finalists: Ballad

Ellie Goulding: Ballad

JLS: Ballad

Olly Murs: Not ballad :lol:

Take That: Ballad

Adele: Ballad

 

I can't remember how I lived through those weeks! :o

Edited June 2, 201114 yr by Eric_Blob

What about something like Sweat by Snoop Dogg? That's been massive all over Europe, but has done nothing in the US.

 

Because Snoop Dogg is American, we classify is as a US song, but firstly, the song has had best chart success in Europe by far, and secondly, if we look at the music itself, rather than the artists, the David Guetta remix sounds much more European than American (I think its melody is sampled from a eurodance song, although you're probably more informed about that than I am :lol:).

 

Same with Beautiful People. It hasn't been successful in the US at all, and musically it's much, much closer to European music than American music, no matter who provides the vocals for it.

 

I just find it weird that we call them American when very few people living in the US will have even heard of those songs, and it's not like they're American-sounding songs either. :lol:

About that top 10, something I've just noticed:

 

X Factor Finalists: Ballad

Ellie Goulding: Ballad

JLS: Ballad

Olly Murs: Not ballad :lol:

Take That: Ballad

Adele: Ballad

 

I can't remember how I lived through those weeks! :o

 

I know where you're coming from, they've definitely become wise to what sells outside the US and have jumped on the bandwagon very recently hence 'club banger' being by far the dominant sound of 2011 in the UK - they can definitely sell in the US though, look at Party Rock Anthem, On The Floor and Give Me Everything - perhaps Beautiful People and Sweat just haven't been promoted that much there? Snoop's song uses a sample of Don't You Want Me by Felix. Call me old fashioned but I'd just prefer to see European singers on top of these European dance tracks, but would radio/TV really support them as much if it was say Eric Saade vs Benny Benassi - Beautiful People or Darin feat Afrojack - Give Me Everything? I doubt it, a large part of them getting noticed is the star performers on the songs in the first place which radio are more likely to back, and hence they end up becoming hits as people hear them.

 

It probably is just a phase though, in 2005-7 it seemed as if dire landfill indie would never end, and then in 2008 the same with soul pop and 2009 the flood of quirky British electro females. Fads come and go I guess...

 

I loved having all of those ballads in the top ten :wub: Well XFF not so much as it was dire!

Mr Saxobeat, Save The World and Sun Is Up all have European vocalists.

Mr Saxobeat, Save The World and Sun Is Up all have European vocalists.

 

Yep they do, and it's not an easy week to make this argument stand, as usually we're lucky to have one Eurodance act top 20, and this reason we somehow have three :lol: But it's not exactly a common occurence - I wish it was!

Yep they do, and it's not an easy week to make this argument stand, as usually we're lucky to have one Eurodance act top 20, and this reason we somehow have three :lol: But it's not exactly a common occurence - I wish it was!

 

Well, it's common enough for it to have happened 2 weeks in a row :kink: (I joke of course)

 

On an unrelated note, Miami 2 Ibiza and Save The World (and maybe One as well, not sure) have got to be the only Eurodance hits that the UK hasn't got several months after the rest of Europe? STW was released only about 2 weeks after the world first heard it AFAIA. But all other Eurodance hits seem to be of the pattern of 'big hit across Europe -> several months wait -> AATW finally give it a UK release'. :lol:

Edited June 2, 201114 yr by Bray

The Independent has an interesting article today that discusses this theme somewhat called "The day the music died: how British acts fell out of the pop charts"

 

The situation improved a little this week with a new entry at No 8 from UK girl group The Saturdays. But the only other UK act in the entire Top 20 was Jessie J.As well as the inevitable presence of Lady Gaga, British artists had to cede ground to the Dutch producer Afro Jack, Italian Benny Benassi, French DJ David Guetta, the Swedish House Mafia and Nicki Minaj from Trinidad and Tobago.British pop was even outsold by its Romanian equivalent. The Romanian female singers Alexandra Stan and Inna both enjoyed UK top 20 hits."It's the worst presence in six decades since the pop chart began," said Paul Williams, head of business analysis at Music Week. "The singles chart now resembles the Eurovision scoreboard. We used to face a musical challenge from the US but now it's from dance acts on the Continent too."Although Adele is flying the flag for British music abroad, the predominantly youthful downloaders whose tastes decide the singles chart, have turned against genres like rock, where the UK has traditionally enjoyed success.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertai...ts-2291994.html

Good. The more coverage this thing gets the more things might change.

 

I disagree with the claim from the article that it would be an admission of defeat to introduce French style quotas though. No song/act can succeed without support. It's just sad that something like this has to even be discussed - it should be an automatic thing.

 

That article seems extremely overdramatised. If UK music hasn't recovered a bit by the end of the year then we should start worrying but at the moment I think it's just a dry period for British acts...

Your posts seems extremely under-dramatised.

 

If UK music was getting more support, then it wouldn't be a dry period for British acts. We need to stop relying on the bloody old guard and start pushing through new acts. As I said in the previous thread on this subject, the number of British acts breaking through this year has been SHOCKING. And it's almost entirely because these new British acts haven't been getting as much support as they should have. There is no reason that some of them shouldn't have got more support - even though the fact that club music is in right now does not mean the music channels should saturate us with American acts with dance-y songs (they never bloody used to do that with whatever was the 'in' trend at the time), we SHOULD clear some of this crap away and allow more room for something different (both from British acts and otherwise).

 

They have got frickin' lazy - simple as that.

it is worth saying that the best selling artist of the year in the UK is indeed a British act :lol: I know where people are coming from, but I still maintain most of it being down to a quiet period for British acts

Your posts seems extremely under-dramatised.

 

If UK music was getting more support, then it wouldn't be a dry period for British acts. We need to stop relying on the bloody old guard and start pushing through new acts. As I said in the previous thread on this subject, the number of British acts breaking through this year has been SHOCKING. And it's almost entirely because these new British acts haven't been getting as much support as they should have. There is no reason that some of them shouldn't have got more support - even though the fact that club music is in right now does not mean the music channels should saturate us with American acts with dance-y songs (they never bloody used to do that with whatever was the 'in' trend at the time), we SHOULD clear some of this crap away and allow more room for something different (both from British acts and otherwise).

 

They have got frickin' lazy - simple as that.

 

I do agree with you - but have a look at the release schedule and there are barely any British acts releasing that aren't really low profile indie bands who would never be successful even with support.

 

And the British 'breakthrough' acts of the year have mostly been extremely uncommercial, as one look at the Sound of 2011 poll would tell you. Of those 15 artists (some of which weren't even British of course) only Jessie J, Wretch 32 and Clare Maguire ever had any obvious hit potential in them to begin with. It could be a case of the people behind the poll overlooking more potentially successful British acts though I suppose...

 

At the end of the day, while it's not exactly great that the British public are turning their back on British acts, I don't really mind a great deal and I would oppose any new rules brought in for the express purpose of artificially inflating the number of Brits in the chart. The chart should reflect what songs are popular with the UK public and if that happens to be mostly US 'club bangers' at the moment then so be it. That whole fad will almost certainly be dead within a year and maybe the next fad will be more British. We just have to wait and see, at the moment I don't see the lack of British talent in the charts as being a big problem.

Edited June 2, 201114 yr by Bray