Posted June 17, 201114 yr A Conservative MP comes under fire for suggesting that people with mental health disabilities should be allowed to work for less than the minimum wage so that they can compete for jobs. Tory MP Philip Davies who said people with disabilities should work for less than the minimum wage in order to compete for jobs Philip Davies, Conservative MP for Shipley, made the comments in a Commons debate about plans to water down minimum wage legislation which were eventually thrown out. Mr Davies said his views came from observations made to him during a visit to the charity Mind by people with mental health disabilities:"The people who are most disadvantaged by the national minimum wage are the most vulnerable in society. "My concern about it is it prevents those people from being given the opportunity to get the first rung on the employment ladder. "Given that some of those people with a learning disability clearly, by definition, can't be as productive in their work as somebody who hasn't got a disability of that nature, then it was inevitable that given that the employer was going to have to pay them both the same, they were going to take on the person who was going to be more productive, less of a risk, and that was doing those people a huge disservice." Mental health charity Mind said it was "preposterous" to suggest that someone with a mental health problem should be prepared to accept less than minimum wage to get their foot in the door with an employer. "People with mental health problems should not be considered a source of cheap labour and should be paid appropriately for the jobs they do," a spokesperson said. Mind said the comments Mr Davies was referring to appeared to have been made during a visit to Mind's office in Bradford in 2007. The charity said that paying people with mental health problems less money than non-disabled people would not help them into work but would widen the poverty gap. The comments were also criticised by an MP from Philip Davies's own benches. Edward Leigh, MP for Gainsborough said: "Forget the fact that there's a minimum wage for a moment. Why actually should a disabled person work for less than £5.93 an hour? It's not a lot of money is it?" Mr Davies defended his comments on Twitter. "Left wing hysteria now dictates that you can't even repeat what people with learning disabilities tell you if it questions their shibboleths," he tweeted. Elsewhere on the social network, Ian Birrell, a former speechwriter for David Cameron, called Mr Davies's idea a "revolting suggestion". It was not the only comment during the debate to prompt discussion. Another Conservative MP, former minister Christopher Chope, tabled proposals which would have allowed adult employees to receive wages below the £5.93 hourly rate. He said current laws prevented British workers from selling their labour "at a price of their own choosing". But his proposals came under attack from MPs including Labour's Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) who claimed Mr Chope's bill revealed "just what a rotten, nasty party the Conservatives are". He said: "In our society there are people who have genuine social difficulties. They need our protection - they don't need us to take away those minimum floors." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thoughts?
June 17, 201114 yr I don't think he meant it in a nasty way. Indeed he is probably very correct that disabled people find it harder to get a job than able bodied people. Companies having to upgrade their premises and facilities to accomodate a disabled person is not cheap either so I do think that disabled people are at the bottom of the queue in this day and age. I can see where the MP is coming from.
June 17, 201114 yr I don't agree with the sentiment of it but I think I know what he was trying to say which is in essence that if somebody who is disabled finds themselves unabled to get work on account of their disability there might be some advantage to accepting a lower rate of pay/reduced responsibility over going unemployed altogether. Unfortunately it can't really be seen to work that way and although I'd imagine some disabled people would be happy to work for less than minimum wage if it was an alternate to unemployment, the majority wouldn't and rightly so. What a bunch of idiots. Typical Tories showing their true colours. Yes because all Tories hate disableds, just like all old people think homosexuality is a phase and all Dutchmen are nine feet tall. I do like this game of silly stereotypes.
June 17, 201114 yr Given its the Tories - there really is nothing outlandish in what he says. If I were him I would suggest that the children of poor families be sent down south to go up chimneys too! This would generate income for these poorer families. Kath
June 18, 201114 yr What an absolute cunt. I work with the disabled (visually impaired) and it IS harder for people with disabilities to find jobs, but that's largely down to the attitude of the employers, and stuff like this REALLY doesn't help. There is a page on Facebook called Phillip Davies MP = Legend, please report it for hate speech against the disabled: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Philip-Davie...106562266060952
June 18, 201114 yr I don't think he put his point across very well, I sort of see what he was trying to say. That's not to say I agree with it at all, far from it.
June 18, 201114 yr @ Tom Rabioso Kay His comments have been blown up out of all proportion. You mention that it is down to the attitude of employers so you are essentially saying that disabled people are confined to the dole queues for the next generation as attitudes don't change overnight. It took decades for the sea change with regards to acceptance of blacks and gays in this country so the same will probably happen with employers and disabled people too so the only solution is to make it more beneficial to hire disabled people. The company I work for advertised recently for a £17,000 a year customer services rep and we got 72 applicants in FOUR days. There is a lot of competition out there for even able bodied people so in these tough times hiring disabled people at a lower rate to able bodied people will improve the chances of a disabled person being hired.
June 18, 201114 yr @ Tom Rabioso Kay His comments have been blown up out of all proportion. You mention that it is down to the attitude of employers so you are essentially saying that disabled people are confined to the dole queues for the next generation as attitudes don't change overnight. It took decades for the sea change with regards to acceptance of blacks and gays in this country so the same will probably happen with employers and disabled people too so the only solution is to make it more beneficial to hire disabled people. The company I work for advertised recently for a £17,000 a year customer services rep and we got 72 applicants in FOUR days. There is a lot of competition out there for even able bodied people so in these tough times hiring disabled people at a lower rate to able bodied people will improve the chances of a disabled person being hired. But why should the burden fall upon the employee with regards to that? You're effectively proposing enshrining the discrimination - and the overall proposal is one which would render the minimum wage null and void as there isn't a single provision that would prevent employers from discriminating on the basis of the lowest bidder. This is the last thing our country needs economically, not least with regards to inequalities between the disabled and society at large. There are other ways you could have it so that it is more beneficial to hire disabled people without disadvantaging the employees themselves. Employer contributions to national insurance reductions where disabled people are hired etc.
June 18, 201114 yr What an absolute cunt. I work with the disabled (visually impaired) and it IS harder for people with disabilities to find jobs, but that's largely down to the attitude of the employers, and stuff like this REALLY doesn't help. There is a page on Facebook called Phillip Davies MP = Legend, please report it for hate speech against the disabled: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Philip-Davie...106562266060952 I did report it the 'Phillip Davies MP Legend' page. Disgusting that is. What an idiot for saying that. Edited June 18, 201114 yr by ukchartstatsfan
June 18, 201114 yr @ Tom Rabioso Kay His comments have been blown up out of all proportion. You mention that it is down to the attitude of employers so you are essentially saying that disabled people are confined to the dole queues for the next generation as attitudes don't change overnight. It took decades for the sea change with regards to acceptance of blacks and gays in this country so the same will probably happen with employers and disabled people too so the only solution is to make it more beneficial to hire disabled people. The company I work for advertised recently for a £17,000 a year customer services rep and we got 72 applicants in FOUR days. There is a lot of competition out there for even able bodied people so in these tough times hiring disabled people at a lower rate to able bodied people will improve the chances of a disabled person being hired. Any employer can choose whether to employ someone who they think will do an adequate job or pay a higher salary to someone they think will do a very good job. But this idiot is implying that the disabled person would not do as good a job as an able bodied person simply because they are disabled. That's why his comments are insulting.
June 18, 201114 yr Any employer can choose whether to employ someone who they think will do an adequate job or pay a higher salary to someone they think will do a very good job. But this idiot is implying that the disabled person would not do as good a job as an able bodied person simply because they are disabled. That's why his comments are insulting. It depends on the condition. Someone paralysed from the waist down but has fully sharp mind and arm mobility would do an admin job just as well as an able bodied person. But someone who is a bit for want of a better word simple is going to take longer to do work related tasks than the typical person.
June 21, 201114 yr Yes because all Tories hate disableds, just like all old people think homosexuality is a phase and all Dutchmen are nine feet tall. I do like this game of silly stereotypes. They don't ALL have those kinds of opinions (another Tory MP immediately slapped this guy down when it was raised in the Commons), but it's pretty much beyond debate that there's more people with these types of opinions in the Tories than there are in the Lib Dems or Labour. Sadly, it seems to me that conservatives generally have historically usually been on the wrong side of history on things (be it women's rights, gay rights, race, slavery, homelessness, poverty), and it always takes them decades to be dragged kicking and screaming into whatever age it is - by which time they've got some other pet peeve. The most insulting thing about this guy's comments was that he lumped the disabled and mentally ill into the same category. A person with Down's Syndrome is completely different to a person with a history of depression. Obviously there's more to be done to encourage employers to employ people with genuine learning difficulties (though cheap labour isn't the way to go), but when it comes to depression, all that needs to be done is for employers (and people in general) to be educated about depression and the fact that it doesn't affect someone's skills in the workplace. P.S.- I'm guessing the guy who was banned was Craig?
June 21, 201114 yr P.S.- I'm guessing the guy who was banned was Craig? How on earth did you guess? :D
June 21, 201114 yr What a bunch of idiots. Typical Tories showing their true colours. Agreed 100%... Absolutely disgusting... The minimum wage is bad enough, but allowing people to work for below it would really be like some kind of "Sweat-Shop" exploitation.... Still, this isn't actually surprising and is really the wet-dream of the Neo-Libs/Neo-Cons/Tories/Republicans anyway... The ultimate goal of people like this is to have a global working "Slave-Class" earning the absolute minimum at the bottom, while the elites control 99% of the world's resources, give themselves ridiculous levels of pay and bonuses and then when they f**k-up again, they call upon the tax-paying "Slave Class" to bail out their mistakes.....
June 21, 201114 yr Yes because all Tories hate disableds, just like all old people think homosexuality is a phase and all Dutchmen are nine feet tall. I do like this game of silly stereotypes. [/size] Suedehead is just calling it as he sees it... And he's right to... Some "stereotypes" are there for a reason.. And with the Tories, it's actually true.... They hate Public service and think the market should rule all, they dont like people being socially mobile, they want to keep the working classes down so they dont become a threat... What's your problem with me or Suede criticising the Tories anyway Jark...? You a bit out of sorts because you were stupid enough to vote for these scum because you thought you were being "pure, dead rebellious".....?
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