http://rt.com/news/libya-civilian-casualties-nato-789/

 

Civilian deaths in Libya: who’s killing who?

Russia Today

In Libya, where NATO-backed NTC forces are attempting to wipe out the last remaining pro-Gaddafi strongholds, civilians are still being killed but normally-vocal countries backing a UN resolution to protect them have gone strangely quiet.

 

British Prime Minister David Cameron and French President Nicolas Sarkozy paid a visit this week to survey their handiwork. The first heads of state to visit Tripoli since the city fell to rebel forces say their countries’ work in spearheading the NATO intervention is not yet done.

 

“We must keep on with the NATO mission until civilians are all protected and until this work is finished,”

 

David Cameron told a joint news conference in Tripoli.

 

He is right: civilians are still being killed. But now that Gaddafi is virtually powerless, the people increasingly doing the killing are National Transitional Council forces, together with NATO, as they attack Bani Walid and other Gaddafi strongholds.

 

On that, Cameron and Sarkozy are silent.

 

“To paraphrase George Orwell in ‘Animal Farm,’ some civilians are more equal than others,” remarks John Laughland from the Institute of Democracy and Cooperation.

 

NATO insist their attacks are targeted, but there are reports of NTC reprisals against presumed Gaddafi supporters.

 

“Clearly there are real problems on the ground. There is a legacy of such a conflict that you will have human rights abuses taking part on both sides. The National Transitional Council have promised to hold their own fighters to account and I think that is a process we will see from now,” believes Middle East analyst James Denselow.

 

But it does not seem to be happening yet. The African Union alleges that transitional forces are hunting down and killing black Africans on the assumption that Gaddafi recruited them as mercenaries.

 

These allegations are borne out by an Amnesty International report which says the rebels are guilty of unlawful killings and torture. It is at pains to point out that Gaddafi’s forces committed terrible atrocities, but also documents a brutal settling of scores by rebel forces, including the lynching of Gaddafi’s soldiers.

 

Meanwhile, the colonel’s hometown is one of the last cities holding out against rebel and NATO forces. A letter – purportedly from Gaddafi himself – begs the UN Security Council to protect Sirte from being pounded by NATO, and to tackle what it describes as crimes by the forces of the new government. Civilian deaths appear inevitable.

 

Cameron and Sarkozy were quick to condemn Gaddafi for killing innocent Libyans in the lead-up to the imposition of NATO’s no-fly zone. But no such rhetoric is being aimed at the NTC.

 

Moreover, Britain has sponsored a draft UN resolution to ease sanctions against Libya and against Libya’s National Oil Corporation in particular, in a bid to get the oil flowing again.

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Just to point out, I actually started out by supporting the UN no-fly zone in Libya. I genuinely believed that this time we'd actually gotten it right.... How wrong I was..... I look at the news now (Russia Today, frankly one of the few large news outlets there actually worth watching, IMO), and I am staggered and appalled by what is going on in Libya... this is NOTHING like Tunisia, NOTHING like Egypt, NOTHING like Syria or Bahrain, this is becoming all too apparent about Western oil interests.... The last sentence of the RT report says it all...

 

The whole justification for the UN resolution 1973 was to protect the civilians of Benghazi against an attack by Ghadafi, and yet what is being done to protect the civilians of Bani Walid and other so-called "Ghadafi Strongholds"? Not a whole hell of a lot from where I'm sitting.... Where's the UN "no-fly" zone for these civilians...? Cameron and Sarkozy are particularly disgusting, their hypocrisy and smugness seems to know no bounds... Frankly I look at the pair of them and just WISH for an assassins bullets to blow their f**king heads off... They're just totally wallowing in all this gory "glory"... I'm sickened by the pair of them... And I'm sick to my stomach by the stench of Western and NATO hypocrisy.....

 

Sadly there was an air of inevitability about this. We quickly moved from enforcing a no fly zone to targeting Ghaddafi's infrastructure and ground forces into effectively backing our preferred side in a civil war. Somewhere along the way we lost sight of the metaphorical line

Sadly there was an air of inevitability about this. We quickly moved from enforcing a no fly zone to targeting Ghaddafi's infrastructure and ground forces into effectively backing our preferred side in a civil war. Somewhere along the way we lost sight of the metaphorical line

 

TBH, I think we (the West) kicked sand over the line just so we could say "What line..? I dont see a line".....

 

I think the line in question is both the 'legal' one and the metaphorical moral one

I think the line in question is both the 'legal' one and the metaphorical moral one

 

Yeah, and frankly, I think us and Frenchies crossed both...... I kind of like how it's come out that David Cameron has been getting "secret advice" from Tony Blair... Well, I guess if you're going to learn how to be a war criminal and, most importantly, get away with it, you'd may as well go to the best....

Yeah, and frankly, I think us and Frenchies crossed both...... I kind of like how it's come out that David Cameron has been getting "secret advice" from Tony Blair... Well, I guess if you're going to learn how to be a war criminal and, most importantly, get away with it, you'd may as well go to the best....

Fourth best. Behind Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.

Fourth best. Behind Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.

 

Nah, Cheney's not that good, he's maybe facing criminal charges.. I did sort of emphasise "getting away with it" ;) And Dubya is just an idiot, so you wouldn't ask his advice on anything..... :lol:

Nah, Cheney's not that good, he's maybe facing criminal charges.. I did sort of emphasise "getting away with it" ;) And Dubya is just an idiot, so you wouldn't ask his advice on anything..... :lol:

But Cameron is an idiot so why would he not want to seek advice from his equal?

It is being reported that Gaddafi has been captured in Sirte.

 

Update - it is now being reported that he has been killed. A photo has been published of someone who could be Gaddafi and looks seriously wounded if not dead.

It has now been confirmed by the Libyan PM and the ambassador to the UK so I think we can safely assume that it is true. I would have preferred to see him hauled before the courts but I'm not going to shed any tears for him.

It has now been confirmed by the Libyan PM and the ambassador to the UK so I think we can safely assume that it is true. I would have preferred to see him hauled before the courts but I'm not going to shed any tears for him.

 

Pretty much my attitude, justice is always the better alternative but at least unlike some people he wasn't defenceless and easy to take alive *cough Bin Laden*

Well, it's certainly not justice but he got what he deserved

Pretty much my attitude, justice is always the better alternative but at least unlike some people he wasn't defenceless and easy to take alive *cough Bin Laden*

 

Indeed... While I'm not exactly going to mourn Ghadafi's death, I am totally disgusted by the sense of triumphalism being put across by the so-called mainstream "news" like Sky and BBC... Not liking that at all...

 

Also, still not liking the hypocrisy of NATO and the UN in this whole sorry affair....

 

Indeed... While I'm not exactly going to mourn Ghadafi's death, I am totally disgusted by the sense of triumphalism being put across by the so-called mainstream "news" like Sky and BBC... Not liking that at all...

 

Also, still not liking the hypocrisy of NATO and the UN in this whole sorry affair....

There was a marked contrast between some of the Americans celebrating his death and the more sober comments from Cameron. Just this once I'm going to say that Cameron got it right.

There's a rather graphic video showing his body being dragged through the streets. He's probably already dead at this point. Not for the faint hearted.

Most of the papers are leading with the rather graphic picture of Gadaffi's body, which I think is rather unsuitable. The Sun, who remain as classy as ever, lead with the headline 'That's for Lockerbie.'

You can always rely on the Sun to sink to the occasion. What does the Express think? Will it lead to a rise or fall in cancer? Or was it Gaddafi who murdered Diana all along?

Having seen the early front pages of the papers I think showing pictures of Gaddafi's body there is ill judged if certainly newsworthy. A lot of oung children will be exposed to these very graphic images and I know from experience some will be strongly affected by them.

 

The thing that strikes me most about this is how the families of Lockerbie victims will now never know for sure of how high up this went. The question also remains as to how caliculated his death was. . Could he have been taken alive and was this an execution?

Having seen the early front pages of the papers I think showing pictures of Gaddafi's body there is ill judged if certainly newsworthy. A lot of oung children will be exposed to these very graphic images and I know from experience some will be strongly affected by them.

 

The thing that strikes me most about this is how the families of Lockerbie victims will now never know for sure of how high up this went. The question also remains as to how caliculated his death was. . Could he have been taken alive and was this an execution?

 

Well, funny you should mention that....

 

Killing a POW? Gaddafi’s last moments (VIDEO)

(link to video footage)

http://rt.com/news/gaddafi-last-moments-video-337/

 

A new explicit amateur video released by AP clearly shows that Colonel Gaddafi was caught alive rather than dead.

 

The video portrays Gaddafi soon after his arrest in Sirte. The colonel is encircled by the soldiers of the National Transitional Council who are shouting in Arabic, "God is great."

 

Gaddafi is definitely too weak to walk on his own and his chest and face are covered in blood. Still, the colonel takes some steps and then falls on the ground. The soldiers try to get Gaddafi up and put him in the car. Some of them are clearly grabbing Gaddafi’s hair.

 

Previously, the media had released pictures showing Gaddafi already dead with a bullet hole in his left temple. Al Jazeera’s video could thus indicate that the colonel was killed by some of the NTC soldiers.

 

As reported earlier, fugitive Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi died of wounds sustained during his capture after NTC forces took his hometown and stronghold of Sirte. It came shortly after Gaddafi's vehicles which were trying to escape the town were hit by a NATO air strike, forcing Gaddafi and several bodyguards to take refuge in the drain.

 

French defense chief said French jet fired on Gaddafi convoy, AP reported.

 

British MP Jeremy Corbyn said that as Gaddafi was captured alive, he should have been treated as prisoner of war, interrogated and put on trial.

 

“It looks that there was an element of mob rule in this, and he was indeed killed in the back of the truck,” he said referring to the video footage of Gaddafi's capture.

 

“And this really does raise some question marks about the command and discipline of the NTC forces and what Libya is going to be like, not just tomorrow, but next month, next year and the next ten years,” he remarked.

 

According to officials from the National Transitional Council (NTC) there was no order to kill Gaddafi. They stated that the former Libyan leader was fatally wounded when a gunfight between his supporters and government fighters broke out after his capture.

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Ghadafi is clearly ALIVE and IN CUSTODY of the NTC... Then later, he's dead... Straight-up f***ing MURDER of a POW according to the Geneva Convention.... And, well, one has to wonder just who ordered his assassination... Hillary Clinton perhaps...? I dont believe for a second anything that comes out of the mouth of the NTC, in my mind they're every bit as bad as Ghadafi and his sons... Tyrants-in-waiting... If anyone honestly believes the Libyan people are going to be free now that Ghadafi is gone, you're frankly fooling yourself....

I feel a bit dirty for providing a link for the Scum, but here it is anyway.....

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/...ie-Gaddafi.html

 

A typical bullshit Scum headline, and all the other mainstream media coverage is similar bullshit... Completely de-contextualising and distorting everything, and kind of "air-brushing" the fact that us and the Americans bombed Tripoli two years before Lockerbie, killing and injuring hundreds of innocent civilians.... Anyway, I seem to recall at the time, the Iranians were actually orginally in the frame as it was thought Lockerbie was in retaliation for the US shooting down an Iranian passenger jet.... And funny how no one even gave a shit about Lockerbie when the deals were being done by Blair, Brown, Bush Jr, et al....

 

It never ceases to amaze me how it's "Terrorism" when it's done by the "other guy", but when the West does it, it's "strategic bombing raids".... f*** off, murder is murder, whether done by Joe Bloggs or done by the Prime Minister or the President.....

 

Ghadafi was murdered because he'd become an "inconvienience", and he probably knew a lot of facts that the West would rather not came to light in any kind of open trial in the Hague (yeah, just what kind of "deal" did B-liar and Bush Jr actually do with Ghadafi anyway..?). So, the "hit" was put out, just like with Bin Laden. If a British soldier/POW had been killed in the manner Ghadafi and his sons have been, there would be absolute out-cry and the Geneva Convention and War Crimes proceedings would be invoked against the perpetrators, and rightly so....

 

If he was a bad man, then he should have been put on trial and charges brought, and then we could have seen and heard for ourselves the facts of the case; but as with Iraq, as with the Pakistan/Afghanistan "drone raids", as with Bin Laden, as with Guantanamo Bay and countless other examples, the Rule of Law has not been respected by the West.. Something else to consider - he provided free health-care, free housing, free education, social welfare benefits, Libya actually had the highest HDI (Human Development Index) rating in the whole of Africa, and under his regime women actually enjoyed a very high level of equal rights, unheard of in any other Arab country (particularly the shitbags like Saudi Arabia and Bharain that we continue to support)... Nope, no one ever talks about THAT in the mainstream media, do they...? Will the NTC or whatever group of "tyrants-in-waiting" take over actually continue to provide what Ghadafi did for the Libyan people...? I wont hold my breath, and I imagine millions of Libyans, especially women, wont either....