I've always wondered - what happens if two songs both have the same sales? Has this ever happened before?

I've always wondered - what happens if two songs both have the same sales? Has this ever happened before?

Then they would be allocated the same chart position. This occurred many times in the early 90s and I think relatively recently but in the lower reaches of the charts (101-200) but I'm sure someone like Vidcapper can help on that one.

 

There was a different rule operating between 1983-1991 when the single that had gained the most sales from the previous week was allocated the top slot which resulted in "The Joker" being announced as the No 1 in September 1990 though its sales tally was the same as "Groove Is In The Heart" by Dee-Lite but the latter record moved 4-2 whilst "The Joker" was at No 6 the previous week. Anyway that was when they used "panel sales" instead of nowadays where you don't have to estimate sales and with downloads you can accurately see how many tracks are sold each week.

Fractional sales are used to separate singles / albums tied on the exactly the same sales.

I recall a while back two records being in the charts at no21. I think love's unkind was one of the songs by Sophie Lawrence.

Fractional sales are used to separate singles / albums tied on the exactly the same sales.

I don't think Fractional sales are required now that 99.9% of the market is "known" so to speak though they were cerainly used in the 80s/ early 90s

I recall a while back two records being in the charts at no21. I think love's unkind was one of the songs by Sophie Lawrence.

 

 

Yep that's one of the tracks I was just thinking off, there is another track around the same year I think.

I'm not sure how ties are broken - when The Beatles made their albums available on iTunes in November 2010 both 'Blackbird' and 'I Am The Walrus' sold 2,019 copies in the singles chart dated 27/11/10. The tracks weren't given a tied position and 'Blackbird' was placed one place higher (#118) than 'I Am The Walrus' (#119). As both tracks were only sold through iTunes it doesn't make any sense that they weren't tied. In fact I can't recall seeing any records on the chart occupy tied positions for many years, they seemed to vanish when Gallup stopped compiling the chart and Millward Brown took over.

 

Fractional sales were used in 2005 when 'Doctor Pressure' by Mylo Vs Miami Sound Machine and 'Bad Day' by Daniel Powter both sold 17,257 copies but Mylo was placed at number 4 with Daniel Powter at number 5. In that same week the top 2 compilation albums sold 20,249 copies but again they weren't tied.

Edited August 14, 201212 yr by Robbie

The other was Oceanic - Insanity, I think. But I also have Roxette in my head too.

I've always wondered - what happens if two songs both have the same sales? Has this ever happened before?

 

It happens virtually every week in the lower part of the top 200, but ties are broken by something called 'fractional sales', which unfortunately, I don't really understand.

It happens virtually every week in the lower part of the top 200, but ties are broken by something called 'fractional sales', which unfortunately, I don't really understand.

This was Alan Jones' explanation of "fractional sales" which appeared in the Music Week chart report the week after Daniel Powter and Mylo both shared the same sales inside the top 5 as well as the top 2 compilation albums selling the same amount:

 

Finally, further to last week's statistical freak - which saw the number one and two compilation albums both selling 20,249 copies, and the number four and five singles both sell 17,257 copies - clarification that it is 'fractional' sales that determine which record is awarded the higher chart placing by OCC.

 

The chart is compiled down to eight decimal points - or one hundred millionth of a sale. Obviously records only sell in whole numbers but the complex weighting matrix employed to take account of shops which are unable to report produces these fractions. For example, if an album sells 15 copies in seven shops in a weighting cell where there are nine shops, the projected sales for all nine would be 15 divided by seven, multiplied by nine, or 19.28571428. The fractions are not discarded until the end of the chart process, by which time, of course, they may add up to extra sales, and even if they don't they provide a way of breaking ties. It is possible that two records could have the same 'fractiona'l sales but very unikley, and it has yet to happen since OCC handed over the chart compilation process to Millward Brown in Februuary 1994.

 

This week's chart sees no ties in either the Top 75 artist album or Top 20 compilation album charts, and the highest placed singles to be separated by 'fractional' sales are the current BodyRockers and Akon singles, which both have sales of 1,723. BodyRockers must have the higher 'fractional' sales, as their single is ranked at number 50, and Akon's at number 51.

Music Week, 25 September 2005

 

With the demise of the physical singles market I'm not sure if this method applies any more. The downloads market is dominated by iTunes so there's probably less need for using the chart compilation method outlined above.

I was going to say with physical sales virtually gone then what would the need be?

I was going to say with physical sales virtually gone then what would the need be?

I wonder what tiebreaker Millward Brown do use? Those two Beatles tracks I mentioned a few posts above (post #14) seem to be separated by the tie-break of being in alphabetical order! Not very scientific...

 

The other was Oceanic - Insanity, I think. But I also have Roxette in my head too.

On 30/11/91 'Spending My Time' by Roxette and 'You Showed Me' by Salt-N-Pepa were tied at number 22.

 

The highest tied position since the chart rules changed in 1991 were:

 

09/01/93

 

19 (20) One In ten - 808 State and UB40

19 (NE) The Devil You Know - Jesus Jones

 

16/01/93

19 (13) Someday (I'm Coming back) - Lisa Stansfield

19 (09) Out Of Space / Ruff In The Jungle Bizness - The Prodigy

 

Two consecutive weeks of two joint number 19s.

 

The last time before the above charts where there were tied positions inside the top 20 was back in October 1976 ('I'll Meet You At Midnight' by Smokie and 'Can't Get By Without You' by The Real Thing, both at number 11 on 23 October 1976).

According to Polyhex Oceanic's Instanity and Sophie Lawrence's Love's Unkind are both at position 21 on the 24th August 1991

 

Oceanic entered that day at 21 and Love's Unkind's chart run is

 

46-35-26-{21}-26-46-70->7

 

Entering on the 3rd Aug - three weeks earlier

 

 

Unless I'm making a huge mistake in reading Polyhex

Edited August 15, 201212 yr by tonyttt31

On 30/11/91 'Spending My Time' by Roxette and 'You Showed Me' by Salt-N-Pepa were tied at number 22.

 

The highest tied position since the chart rules changed in 1991 were:

 

09/01/93

 

19 (20) One In ten - 808 State and UB40

19 (NE) The Devil You Know - Jesus Jones

 

16/01/93

19 (13) Someday (I'm Coming back) - Lisa Stansfield

19 (09) Out Of Space / Ruff In The Jungle Bizness - The Prodigy

 

Two consecutive weeks of two joint number 19s.

 

The last time before the above charts where there were tied positions inside the top 20 was back in October 1976 ('I'll Meet You At Midnight' by Smokie and 'Can't Get By Without You' by The Real Thing, both at number 11 on 23 October 1976).

Although "current books" don't recognise many BMRB ties, all even Music Week in the 70s. Radio One announced a handful of ties, on the Countdown in the 1969 to 81 period, that don't appear in books today.

 

When there was a tie (& they weren't separated), you'd get the higher position of the week before taking, the first #11 (as in 1976, when Smokie tied with the Real Thing).

 

Same as those original BBC Charts in the 50s & 60s. Even the 3 way tie at #1, could of been separated on the same scale (although there was a mistake in positions, on the week before). That way, Herb Alpert would take #1 honours. This situation had been put in force, when Radio One began & Denys Jones, had no ties in the BBC Chart from September 67 & March 68, but obviously had a change of heart, for some explicable reason. Though if 2 records were falling & tied, these were still separated. Always confusing & ever changing. Should a tie be left in? I think it should.

According to Polyhex Oceanic's Instanity and Sophie Lawrence's Love's Unkind are both at position 21 on the 24th August 1991

 

Oceanic entered that day at 21 and Love's Unkind's chart run is

 

46-35-26-{21}-26-46-70->7

 

Entering on the 3rd Aug - three weeks earlier

Unless I'm making a huge mistake in reading Polyhex

You're correct, those two records did tie at number 21. It was the first time two records inside the top 40 had tied for one position after the chart rules were changed from January 1991. Other ties inside the top 40 from January 1991 onwards were the Roxette / Salt-N-Pepa singles and the two joint number 19s mentioned above, D:Ream and Mick Jagger (#24, 06/02/93), Dina Carroll and Michael Bolton (#37, 20/03/93) and finally Freak Power and Alice In Chains (#36, 23/10/93)