October 12, 201311 yr Surely as long as the people who are going to university are aware of all the facts it shouldn't matter too much? The majority of things I cite on applications and covering letters is from work, occasionally backed up with stuff explicitly from university. As someone said earlier (Charlie?) it'll also lead more students to getting involved in more extra-curricular activities to gain more skills than they've generally done.
October 12, 201311 yr Surely as long as the people who are going to university are aware of all the facts it shouldn't matter too much? The majority of things I cite on applications and covering letters is from work, occasionally backed up with stuff explicitly from university. As someone said earlier (Charlie?) it'll also lead more students to getting involved in more extra-curricular activities to gain more skills than they've generally done. Offering free tuition and scrapping student loans etc for every student is financial suicide for any government simply because of the sheer vast numbers of people going to uni compared to my era where only the 'elite' went to uni and everyone who did got free education at uni I would like to see free uni education bought back in, burdening teenagers and 20 somethings with 20k+ of debt in an era where most who leave uni are going to get jobs in shops and call centres is absurd so in my opinion uni education should be free The only way to make that practical and affordable is to reduce heavily the numbers going to uni and also to reduce the number of courses 10% or so of the youth population going to uni for free and studying 'A list' subjects is far more beneficial to UK than 50% going and getting £27k in debt for the privilege many of them studying 'soft options' like sociology or media studies
October 12, 201311 yr Offering free tuition and scrapping student loans etc for every student is financial suicide for any government simply because of the sheer vast numbers of people going to uni compared to my era where only the 'elite' went to uni and everyone who did got free education at uni I would like to see free uni education bought back in, burdening teenagers and 20 somethings with 20k+ of debt in an era where most who leave uni are going to get jobs in shops and call centres is absurd so in my opinion uni education should be free The only way to make that practical and affordable is to reduce heavily the numbers going to uni and also to reduce the number of courses 10% or so of the youth population going to uni for free and studying 'A list' subjects is far more beneficial to UK than 50% going and getting £27k in debt for the privilege many of them studying 'soft options' like sociology or media studies We've explained to you countless times why degrees such as media studies are neither worthless nor soft options. Clearly the message has still not got though to you so further attempts will probably be equally fruitless.
October 12, 201311 yr We've explained to you countless times why degrees such as media studies are neither worthless nor soft options. Clearly the message has still not got though to you so further attempts will probably be equally fruitless. Anyone can become a blogger or journalist, all it needs is a bit of practice, fine tuning, building up an online reputation You don't need a degree to become a journalist, but you do to become a doctor or scientist or dentist or aerodynamicist In sport particularly it is hard to find a journalist who is accredited who did media studies, but if i went for an operation i would certainly hope my surgeon has one The way people become journos these days is through a Wordpress blog, getting discovered online or by starting off as a runner for a media company
October 12, 201311 yr More to the point, why should a degree no longer having the automatic 'get a free job' value it once did be an argument for reducing the number of people who go to university? If the aggregate value given to society by more people going to university is increased then who cares if it makes jobs more competitive - there is value in having a more educated populace as it gives them more flexibility in what they can apply for, and society benefits from having a potentially more valuable and productive workforce.
October 12, 201311 yr More to the point, why should a degree no longer having the automatic 'get a free job' value it once did be an argument for reducing the number of people who go to university? If the aggregate value given to society by more people going to university is increased then who cares if it makes jobs more competitive - there is value in having a more educated populace as it gives them more flexibility in what they can apply for, and society benefits from having a potentially more valuable and productive workforce. Uni discourages enterprise and setting up of businesses which is what we need this generation of youth doing 1) Leaving uni with 27k of debt is going to discourage people from setting up businesses 2) Uni discourages the 'think outside the box' mentality that this country needs, everything is so structured and textbook based and research based instead of thinking on feet, Steve Jobs once said if he hadn't quit higher education he would have ended up as a middle to senior manager at Hewlett Packard because higher education stifled the think outside the box culture as everything had to be done this way and that way and by this time etc By sending too many to uni we risk stifling enterprise
October 12, 201311 yr Uni discourages enterprise and setting up of businesses which is what we need this generation of youth doing 1) Leaving uni with 27k of debt is going to discourage people from setting up businesses 2) Uni discourages the 'think outside the box' mentality that this country needs, everything is so structured and textbook based and research based instead of thinking on feet, Steve Jobs once said if he hadn't quit higher education he would have ended up as a middle to senior manager at Hewlett Packard because higher education stifled the think outside the box culture as everything had to be done this way and that way and by this time etc By sending too many to uni we risk stifling enterprise When will you understand that the vast majority of us will always be employees? That's the way economies work. As for your assertion that going to university stifles enterprise, where is your evidence? Or is it just another assertion based on blind prejudice?
October 12, 201311 yr As for your assertion that going to university stifles enterprise, where is your evidence? Or is it just another assertion based on blind prejudice? What Steve Jobs said, he has been through the higher education system, he would know Other famous uni dropouts include Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerburg, Roman Abramovich, all multi billionaires Edited October 12, 201311 yr by Sandro Ranieri
October 12, 201311 yr When will you understand that the vast majority of us will always be employees? That's the way economies work. As for your assertion that going to university stifles enterprise, where is your evidence? Or is it just another assertion based on blind prejudice? The people I admire most are the Indians, probably my fave people on this planet They believe strongly in enterprise, hard work, family and families looking after the rest of the family without reliance on the state I would like to see this country become another India, families looking after each other instead of state handouts, a nation of traders and entrepreneurs, a nation that mucks in and works all hours Edited October 12, 201311 yr by Sandro Ranieri
October 12, 201311 yr Which also has a massive proportion of its population living below the breadline and is riven with corruption.
October 12, 201311 yr Uni discourages enterprise and setting up of businesses which is what we need this generation of youth doing 1) Leaving uni with 27k of debt is going to discourage people from setting up businesses 2) Uni discourages the 'think outside the box' mentality that this country needs, everything is so structured and textbook based and research based instead of thinking on feet, Steve Jobs once said if he hadn't quit higher education he would have ended up as a middle to senior manager at Hewlett Packard because higher education stifled the think outside the box culture as everything had to be done this way and that way and by this time etc By sending too many to uni we risk stifling enterprise Great, you've found a couple of multibillionaire businessmen who dropped out of university. For each one of those you'd probably find a load of businesspeople who did go to university. Additionally, anybody with even a basic understanding of money (or at least enough to set up a business) knows that that £27,000 isn't debt in any real sense akin to most other loans. It's not exactly an albatross debt lumbering people down, given repayment of it depends entirely on how much people are earning.
October 12, 201311 yr Which also has a massive proportion of its population living below the breadline and is riven with corruption. It is an 'emerging nation' It will take time for wealth to trickle down to the poorest but give it 15-20 years... Indians that come to this country make a massive contribution too
October 12, 201311 yr If you really think India is a model for this country to follow then I really bloody despair. I'd take our living standards with a safety net social security system over the social Darwinism of India any day, and I think most people with any sense would too. We live in a country with low crime, some of the world's best living standards, good education and good health systems, comparatively low poverty, and a competitive and thriving business sector. Why the fuck should we model ourselves on a nation where these people work hard and support families where they can because starvation is the alternative? Edited October 12, 201311 yr by Cassandra
October 12, 201311 yr Great, you've found a couple of multibillionaire businessmen who dropped out of university. For each one of those you'd probably find a load of businesspeople who did go to university. Additionally, anybody with even a basic understanding of money (or at least enough to set up a business) knows that that £27,000 isn't debt in any real sense akin to most other loans. It's not exactly an albatross debt lumbering people down, given repayment of it depends entirely on how much people are earning. The future of this country is eBay We need to create a nation of eBay traders, costs to trade are next to nothing, tens of millions of users in the UK, the government and teachers should be drilling it into people to become eBay traders, same with DWP staff, they should be telling the unemployed to start an eBay business - buy a bit of stock, much as can afford even if its £100 worth, sell that, reinvest, sell that reinvest again, rinse and repeat.
October 12, 201311 yr If you really think India is a model for this country to follow then I really bloody despair. I'd take our living standards with a safety net social security system over the social Darwinism of India any day, and I think most people with any sense would too. We live in a country with low crime, some of the world's best living standards, good education and good health systems, comparatively low poverty, and a competitive and thriving business sector. Why the fuck should we model ourselves on a nation where these people work hard and support families where they can because starvation is the alternative? Like it or not our 'rivals' in the next 20 years are going to be India. China, Brazil, Russia, Singapore, Thailand etc They have their problems and at the moment are unequal socities but they are all emerging markets and if Britain doesn't lead the way in enterprise we risk being overtaken by those countries and slipping further and further back
October 12, 201311 yr If you really think India is a model for this country to follow then I really bloody despair. I'd take our living standards with a safety net social security system over the social Darwinism of India any day, and I think most people with any sense would too. We live in a country with low crime, some of the world's best living standards, good education and good health systems, comparatively low poverty, and a competitive and thriving business sector. Why the fuck should we model ourselves on a nation where these people work hard and support families where they can because starvation is the alternative? Welfare was designed as a safety net, and that is what it should be but to too many it has become a career, a way of life, a large minority of unemployed are happy to just sit there on the dole year after year and breed and then their kids see the dad lazing around doing nothing so will grow up with the same mentality where long term unemployment carries no shame, we need a safety net for those in the most dire of needs like the elderly and disabled and people who are temporarily out of work but we are being dragged down by the bulkhead by a lazy minority of serial breeders and career scroungers Tell people their benefits will cease after a certain time and they have 2 choices, work or starve
October 12, 201311 yr What Steve Jobs said, he has been through the higher education system, he would know Other famous uni dropouts include Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerburg, Roman Abramovich, all multi billionaires So you are basing your entire opinion of the British university system on the thoughts of a single American? Wow, I knew you were bone-headed but I didn't realise you were that bad. Besides, don't you think Jobs' success owed just a little bit to Jonathan Ive and his British degree in industrial design?
October 12, 201311 yr It is an 'emerging nation' It will take time for wealth to trickle down to the poorest but give it 15-20 years... Indians that come to this country make a massive contribution too We're still waiting for the trickle down theory to show even the vaguest sign of working here after 30 years. Why do you think India will be different?
October 12, 201311 yr Welfare was designed as a safety net, and that is what it should be but to too many it has become a career, a way of life, a large minority of unemployed are happy to just sit there on the dole year after year and breed and then their kids see the dad lazing around doing nothing so will grow up with the same mentality where long term unemployment carries no shame, we need a safety net for those in the most dire of needs like the elderly and disabled and people who are temporarily out of work but we are being dragged down by the bulkhead by a lazy minority of serial breeders and career scroungers Tell people their benefits will cease after a certain time and they have 2 choices, work or starve A large minority? Got any sources for that other than a Telegraph column?
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