http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25...tech-jails.html

 

Unbelieveable

 

Prison cells are to be fitted with phones, tv sets, showers, room service meals, computer terminals and other gadgets, effectively becoming a hotel where you can't check out of automatically

 

How on earth is turning prisons into Holiday Inn's going to reform prisoners? how is it punishing them? what incentive is there for prisoners not to turn to crime again?

 

Prisons should go back to the old days of a hard bed, a bucket to slop out in and a place where prisoners are punished not treated like VIP's

Edited December 12, 201311 yr by Sandro Raniere

As you read that ghastly rag I don't expect you to be interested in facts but

 

1) If you think prison is such a luxurious place to be, why don't you try it?

 

2) All the evidence suggests that the reoffending rate is much lower if prisoners are treated like human beings rather than animals in a particuarly cruel zoo.

 

3) Has it not occurred to you that the Daily Mail - not exactly renowned for its accuracy when reporting certain subjects might be exaggerating just a tiny bit?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25...tech-jails.html

 

Unbelieveable

 

Prison cells are to be fitted with phones, tv sets, showers, room service meals, computer terminals and other gadgets, effectively becoming a hotel where you can't check out of automatically

 

How on earth is turning prisons into Holiday Inn's going to reform prisoners? how is it punishing them? what incentive is there for prisoners not to turn to crime again?

 

Prisons should go back to the old days of a hard bed, a bucket to slop out in and a place where prisoners are punished not treated like VIP's

 

If this theory was accurate, then countries with tougher prison conditions would have lower crime rates. Generally, they don't.

 

The main punishment that prison gives is the loss of social status. I found it quite telling that middle-class media commentators (whatever their general political views) were horrified when Chris Huhne and Vicky Pryce were sent to jail, simply because they think prison isn't for middle-class people like them (whereas many of those same commentators would've happily cheered if a fraudulent benefits-claimant was sent to jail, even though cheating on benefits objectively is no more serious a crime than fiddling with licence points), when I would argue that, if prison EVER acts as a deterrent to anyone, it would ONLY work for middle-class people like Huhne and Pryce who actually have something to lose by going to prison. But it's been proven that, for poor people at the bottom of society, the risk of going to prison never acts as a deterrent (no matter how tough you make prison conditions) because they already have such little stake in society that there will be no social shame in going.

The problem is though that with many people prison would be a better standard of living and better standard of comfort to what they have on the outside

 

Many people on sink estates and tower blocks etc would consider a prison 'cell', or should i say suite, with tv, phone, computer, room service and hot shower to be an UPGRADE on what it is like on the outside for them, so i fail to see where the punishment element in it is

 

Prisons should be worse standards of living than the worst standards of living on the outside

 

If i was poor and living in an absolute shithole, being sent to one of these places would feel like winning the lottery

 

Wrong on so many levels

Edited December 12, 201311 yr by Sandro Raniere

Why should prisons punish?

The problem is though that with many people prison would be a better standard of living and better standard of comfort to what they have on the outside

 

Many people on sink estates and tower blocks etc would consider a prison 'cell', or should i say suite, with tv, phone, computer, room service and hot shower to be an UPGRADE on what it is like on the outside for them, so i fail to see where the punishment element in it is

 

Prisons should be worse standards of living than the worst standards of living on the outside

 

If i was poor and living in an absolute shithole, being sent to one of these places would feel like winning the lottery

 

Wrong on so many levels

Unless you show signs of growing up this will be my last contribution as life is too short to argue with a brick wall. Just look at the evidence before spouting such knee-jerk rubbish. I know Tories tend not to like evidence based policy (Gove is a prime example of that) but it does tend to be the more rational approach. Most people would consider "room service" to mean that you can call reception and ask for whatever you want as long as it is available. Somehow I suspect that is not what is being proposed here. I also doubt a Holiday Inn would get away with describing the proposed arrangements as a "suite" if they chose to replicate them in their hotels.

 

Perhaps you would also like to tell us what proportion of prisoners are guilty of violent crimes rather than lesser offences. The trouble with squalid rags like the Wail is that they constantly go on about prisoners as if they are all murderers and rapists. The truth is that such criminals represent a fairly low proportion of the prison population.

 

Finally, if prison really is an improvement on some people's living conditions, perhaps it would be better to tackle those living conditions rather than embarking on yet another race to the bottom.

Why should prisons punish?

The punishment part is the lack of liberty. Beyond that, the principle aim should be rehabilitation rather than a primitive emphasis on revenge.

Why should prisons punish?

 

1) To scare them off committing crimes again

2) To show the victim that something is being done about the scumbag

 

 

1) To scare them off committing crimes again

2) To show the victim that something is being done about the scumbag

If I was the victim of crime I'd like to see the "scumbag" be able to become a better person in prison so that when they come out they can make a greater contribution to society and won't do it again.

Unless you show signs of growing up this will be my last contribution as life is too short to argue with a brick wall. Just look at the evidence before spouting such knee-jerk rubbish. I know Tories tend not to like evidence based policy (Gove is a prime example of that) but it does tend to be the more rational approach. Most people would consider "room service" to mean that you can call reception and ask for whatever you want as long as it is available. Somehow I suspect that is not what is being proposed here. I also doubt a Holiday Inn would get away with describing the proposed arrangements as a "suite" if they chose to replicate them in their hotels.

 

Perhaps you would also like to tell us what proportion of prisoners are guilty of violent crimes rather than lesser offences. The trouble with squalid rags like the Wail is that they constantly go on about prisoners as if they are all murderers and rapists. The truth is that such criminals represent a fairly low proportion of the prison population.

 

Finally, if prison really is an improvement on some people's living conditions, perhaps it would be better to tackle those living conditions rather than embarking on yet another race to the bottom.

 

Even if you were right in what you say cant you see the dangers in giving prisoners computers and phones?

 

A prisoner could use computer or phone to sanction intimidation of witnesses, revenge attacks on people who gave evidence, a drug baron could organise shipments of cocaine from the inside, a paedophile could trawl the net harassing people in chatrooms or view porn, at least with a prison visit screws can monitor communications, with a phone in the wing wall screws can listen in on what is being said, how will that be able to happen in the confines of a cell? How can anyone know what a prisoner will be up to 24/7 with a computer and phone in his cell?

The problem is though that with many people prison would be a better standard of living and better standard of comfort to what they have on the outside

 

Many people on sink estates and tower blocks etc would consider a prison 'cell', or should i say suite, with tv, phone, computer, room service and hot shower to be an UPGRADE on what it is like on the outside for them, so i fail to see where the punishment element in it is

 

Prisons should be worse standards of living than the worst standards of living on the outside

 

If i was poor and living in an absolute shithole, being sent to one of these places would feel like winning the lottery

 

Wrong on so many levels

 

Then why in countries which do have prisons that are absolute shitholes are the crime rates generally even higher than here? (Not suggesting it's BECAUSE of prison conditions in those countries that crime rates are higher, it's probably more because the countries with bad prison conditions also happen to be countries that have the highest levels of poverty, which is by far the biggest factor in driving people to crime rather than how "soft" or "tough" the crime system is.)

Even if you were right in what you say cant you see the dangers in giving prisoners computers and phones?

 

A prisoner could use computer or phone to sanction intimidation of witnesses, revenge attacks on people who gave evidence, a drug baron could organise shipments of cocaine from the inside, a paedophile could trawl the net harassing people in chatrooms or view porn, at least with a prison visit screws can monitor communications, with a phone in the wing wall screws can listen in on what is being said, how will that be able to happen in the confines of a cell? How can anyone know what a prisoner will be up to 24/7 with a computer and phone in his cell?

 

Do you really think prisoners don't have their computer use monitored, that there aren't filters to stop these things you're talking about? :lol: Ffs.

 

Again, if you're trying to claim making prison a hellish experience means people will be deterred from committing crimes, then the evidence just doesn't back that up, since for poor people who commit most of the crimes, their life on the outside is so terrible that nothing can be worse (and no, having a couple of material goods like a TV or occasional internet access that they might possibly not have on the outside is not going to make any difference to a fundamentally unhappy person with no prospects in their life). And it definitely doesn't stop them from committing more crimes when they're eventually let out.

If I was the victim of crime I'd like to see the "scumbag" be able to become a better person in prison so that when they come out they can make a greater contribution to society and won't do it again.

 

I think the prison system needs to be reformed

 

Shoplifters, non council tax payers, benefit chests, fraudsters etc should not be in prison at all, exceptionally tough back breaking community work would be more appropriate

 

But anyone guilty of rape, paedophilia, robbery, ABH or GBH, murder, attempted murder, burglary, class A drug dealing etc should enter a harsh extremely tough prison system

 

Backbreaking hard work, physical exercise or/and education for the entire day, basic rations of food, legal but not comfortable standards of bedding, cold damp dreary environment, a bucket to 'slop out' in

 

Basically psychologically break them to the point where they think 'f*** this, i never want to come here again'

 

When i was in school we had the cane, i was caned, i saw kids who were absolute quivering wrecks outside the headmasters study while waiting to be caned, i saw one boy shaking and crying while he was waiting for the cane, i bet he never was caned again, point being i want to see criminals cower in terror at the thought of being before a judge or having a knock on the door from the police.

 

Fear of going to prison is an important part of justice, it must be restored

Do you really think prisoners don't have their computer use monitored, that there aren't filters to stop these things you're talking about? :lol: Ffs.

 

Again, if you're trying to claim making prison a hellish experience means people will be deterred from committing crimes, then the evidence just doesn't back that up, since for poor people who commit most of the crimes, their life on the outside is so terrible that nothing can be worse (and no, having a couple of material goods like a TV or occasional internet access that they might possibly not have on the outside is not going to make any difference to a fundamentally unhappy person with no prospects in their life). And it definitely doesn't stop them from committing more crimes when they're eventually let out.

 

Facebook and Twitter are banned from my workplace via filters, they can be got round in a nano second, filters are a complete waste of time, plus what would stop a criminal using a proxy etc?

this article is in the MAIL. Pointless discussing it at all, like everything in the former-fascist rag (same family owners as we’ve discussed before)

 

Prisons are to rehabilitate offenders or protect the public from the dangerous.

 

Finally, the assumption that people commit crime because the poor dears lives are sh*t and they have nothing to lose is also a rather large generalisation and unfair on those struggling through hard times who don't resort to crime (been there myself and never felt the need to go out and mug anyone or break into houses). A fair proportion are well-off people defrauding, or habitual shop-lifters, or domestic violence, or people who deliberately choose criminal activities as the rewards are rather attractive and worth the risks of getting caught (drug dealers for a start). Some shouldn't even be in prison in the first place (TV licence fee dodgers for a start) as the crime is so trivial...

 

 

Facebook and Twitter are banned from my workplace via filters, they can be got round in a nano second, filters are a complete waste of time, plus what would stop a criminal using a proxy etc?

Are you really so utterly stupid that you don't think calls and internet usage would be monitored? Deary me.

I think the prison system needs to be reformed

 

Shoplifters, non council tax payers, benefit chests, fraudsters etc should not be in prison at all, exceptionally tough back breaking community work would be more appropriate

 

But anyone guilty of rape, paedophilia, robbery, ABH or GBH, murder, attempted murder, burglary, class A drug dealing etc should enter a harsh extremely tough prison system

 

Backbreaking hard work, physical exercise or/and education for the entire day, basic rations of food, legal but not comfortable standards of bedding, cold damp dreary environment, a bucket to 'slop out' in

 

Basically psychologically break them to the point where they think 'f*** this, i never want to come here again'

 

When i was in school we had the cane, i was caned, i saw kids who were absolute quivering wrecks outside the headmasters study while waiting to be caned, i saw one boy shaking and crying while he was waiting for the cane, i bet he never was caned again, point being i want to see criminals cower in terror at the thought of being before a judge or having a knock on the door from the police.

 

Fear of going to prison is an important part of justice, it must be restored

I assume you think the intent of this would be as a deterrent to reduce crime. Crime's been falling year on year since 1996 and is now at one of the lowest rates it has ever been in modern Britain - even during the recession, when you'd normally expect crime to go up. Rough prison conditions if anything tend to be associated with higher reoffending rates in countries where prison conditions are far worse - dehumanising somebody by keeping them in conditions you wouldn't even put an animal in doesn't really set them up for being reintegrated into society afterwards. It's kind of pointless saying we should put prisoners in these conditions to psychologically break them into never committing crime again because we KNOW it doesn't work from centuries of trying it!

1) To scare them off committing crimes again

2) To show the victim that something is being done about the scumbag

I know you're not one to change your views so I won't get into a big argument but I will never believe that in-prison punishment should be a thing. They don't need to be palaces but they shouldn't be unpleasant either. Rehabilitation, not dehumanisation.

I'm with Craig on this. Criminals should be in a cold cell with bed and slop bucket. No more, no less. No computers no TV except in a communal room, no access to music etc. Make life as uncomfortable as possible.

flying in the face of logic erryday