Could the Sunday release chart happened earlier than 4th October 1987, with the technology of the day, I remember doing computer studies in the mid 80's so technology was there to compile the chart faster, could something like a ZX spectrum or BBC Micro be up to the task of crunching the data involved in compiling the chart, the issue of the day was getting the data back to base, I remember the old modems that you put a phone handset in to two round bays and data transfer happened then, would have there been a better way in the early 80's to get the data back to base.

I presume however they wanted to do it, they'd have to wait for the shops to install the technology, which would cost money.

Could the Sunday release chart happened earlier than 4th October 1987, with the technology of the day, I remember doing computer studies in the mid 80's so technology was there to compile the chart faster, could something like a ZX spectrum or BBC Micro be up to the task of crunching the data involved in compiling the chart, the issue of the day was getting the data back to base, I remember the old modems that you put a phone handset in to two round bays and data transfer happened then, would have there been a better way in the early 80's to get the data back to base.

Are you referring to having a BBC Micro or whatever in the individual shops? If they had wanted to do it then I'm sure it could have been done earlier. After all, as I remember it, they changed the date because of the competition from the Network Chart. As THP said, the main issue will have been with the shops as the technology was rather expensive. The main way of exchanging data between computers was by tape but individual shops would not have had the technology to write to tape.

I don't think there was even much of a clamour for a quicker chart back then, until, as Suedehead said, the "Network Chart" came along.

A Record Mirror article in May 1987 titled "The Art Of Charting" which discussed how both the Gallup and MRIB charts were compiled revealed that the Gallup chart was "ready on a Sunday (and) published on a Tuesday". This was 5 months before the chart reveal date switched to a Sunday. I'm guessing that it had probably been compiled on a Sunday for a while by then. When Gallup first took over chart compilation duties on 27 December 1982 the method of shops entering sales data was to key into what was called a "dataport" the serial number of each record sold with the sales data being sent each week via a modem to Gallup who then, according to Alan Jones (then with Record Mirror) "start processing the information and within hours the new chart is ready for publication". That would suggest the chart was being compiled on a Sunday from when Gallup first took over. However, it is possible that the publication of the chart was delayed in the early days to allow for security checking, especially if sales data was submitted only once a week from record dealers.

 

At some point record shops will have moved from submitting data on a weekly basis to submitting it on a daily basis, or at least on a more frequent basis - if I recall midweek sales charts (apparently only published on Thursdays and Fridays as late as 1988 if the KLF manual on how to have a number 1 hit is correct) appeared around 1984 or 1985. This should have meant that by 1985 or 1986 at the latest that any chart produced on a Sunday was ready to be published and announced on a Sunday as any security checks could be done prior to a final chart being compiled. In 1986 the chart compilation process was made even quicker by the introduction of barcodes on the back of record sleeves and the replacement of dataports that required sales data to be input manually with computers that used barcode technology. However the chart panel was doubled in size in May 1987 so perhaps Gallup, the BPI and the BBC decided to wait until any teething troubles had been ironed out before moving to a Sunday reveal.

 

However, I'm sure the main underlying reason for speeding up the chart compilation process and switching to a Sunday reveal was down to the popularity of the Network Chart.

I remember Bruno Brookes saying that the rundown (coming direct from Gallup HQ) often only just reached them before the show went on air. It was remarked several times that it nearly didn't get to them for the start of the show.

 

As for the use of the computers in the late 1980's it was very expensive for any company to train staff in the use of a BBC Micro. At the time I was wanting to use them for DTP work. They were slow and very poor at doing a simple task. Later on Amstrad brought out the desktop PC, but apart from some spreadsheet software and Word Processor, there was little else even these could do till the software companies caught up.

I should also point out that most people had no knowledge of computers at all. And unless you were a secretary certainly didn't know how to use a keyboard. Plus if you wanted to do a training course in how to use a keyboard at say a local college, you would be taught on an old typewriter, still using an old ribbon and using a piece of carbon paper to make copies. That's how backwards the UK was in the 80's.

 

It wasn't till the PC became linked with selling things and the use of the bar code to identify the product could the chart be computerised in the way it was. For example most of the big supermarkets could have told you how many cans of beans they had sold, but not an individual record. This was because they classed anything not food as "none food stock".

I read the May 1987 article from Record Mirror that Robbie has referred to above, which was a very interesting read. Funnily enough, even though the article stated that by that point the charts were compiled on Sunday but not published until a Tuesday, another article in the same magazine stated that the publication of that week's charts (w/e 9/5/'87) were delayed by a day due to the early May Bank Holiday (so they weren't published till the Wednesday, I assume, though they were compiled on the Sunday). I wonder why they still needed to wait an extra day to publish that week's charts even though by then (May '87) the charts were compiled on Sundays? I don't know, maybe there were still some extra checks they needed to carry out before the charts were officially announced? Or maybe it was still traditional at that point to hold back the charts for an extra day after a Bank Holiday, even though the charts had been ready since the Sunday evening?

 

Also, I wonder when acts would have discovered that they were number 1 - would it have been Sunday evening upon compilation of the chart, or would they have had to wait 'til the Tuesday also when the charts were actually published (I'm referring here to more the '85 to Oct '87 era)? Or maybe even the Monday in between?

Edited January 28, 201411 yr by donnahjaneymack

I read the May 1987 article from Record Mirror that Robbie has referred to above, which was a very interesting read. Funnily enough, even though the article stated that by that point the charts were compiled on Sunday but not published until a Tuesday, another article in the same magazine stated that the publication of that week's charts (w/e 9/5/'87) were delayed by a day due to the early May Bank Holiday (so they weren't published till the Wednesday, I assume, though they were compiled on the Sunday). I wonder why they still needed to wait an extra day to publish that week's charts even though by then (May '87) the charts were compiled on Sundays? I don't know, maybe there were still some extra checks they needed to carry out before the charts were officially announced? Or maybe it was still traditional at that point to hold back the charts for an extra day after a Bank Holiday, even though the charts had been ready since the Sunday evening?

 

Also, I wonder when artists would have discovered that they were number 1 - would it have been Sunday evening upon compilation of the chart, or would they have had to wait 'til the Tuesday also when the charts were actually published (I'm referring here to more the '85 to Oct '87 era)?

Yes, it is strange that the Bank Holiday would delay the announcement and actual publication of a chart if it had been compiled on a Sunday. I can only guess that some security checks were still being carried out on a Monday morning, which was pushed back to a Tuesday morning when there was a Bank Holiday.

 

Didn't Radio 1 eventually start to announce the new chart late on a Tuesday afternoon when there had been a Bank Holiday? I'm not sure when this was, perhaps it was after the mid 80s. But either way the publication of the chart would have been sufficiently delayed that Record Mirror, operating on a tight print schedule, would have had to go to press before the chart was officially available. But even then I have vague memories in the mid 80s of Record Mirror publishing the top 40 part of the new chart when the announcement of the chart had been delayed because of a Bank Holiday.

 

I think the answer could be simpler than that. If they had published the chart on a Tuesday in a Bank Holiday week, then people would have started asking why it couldn't be published on a Monday in a normal week. They may not have wanted to draw too much attention to the fact that it was compiled on a Sunday.

The actual answer is to do with printing. The chart was ready for Sunday which means that Radio One could broadcast it for then. Published for Tuesday means that "copy" as they call it in the print trade would be ready for Tuesday. This means that if there was a bank holiday on Monday that the "copy" could not arrive on time (to prepared for the press) and therefore the page would not be ready to go to the printers.

 

PS I should say that the "copy" would be a typed up copy of the chart. This would have to be then typeset to make the page.

Edited January 29, 201411 yr by Graham A

The actual answer is to do with printing. The chart was ready for Sunday which means that Radio One could broadcast it for then. Published for Tuesday means that "copy" as they call it in the print trade would be ready for Tuesday. This means that if there was a bank holiday on Monday that the "copy" could not arrive on time (to prepared for the press) and therefore the page would not be ready to go to the printers.

 

PS I should say that the "copy" would be a typed up copy of the chart. This would have to be then typeset to make the page.

But in the period prior to October 1987, which is what is being referred to above, Radio 1 didn't broadcast the new chart until a Tuesday lunchtime and following a Bank Holiday the chart was delayed until a Wednesday and possibly in later years, late Tuesday afternoon.

 

But in the period prior to October 1987, which is what is being referred to above, Radio 1 didn't broadcast the new chart until a Tuesday lunchtime and following a Bank Holiday the chart was delayed until a Wednesday and possibly in later years, late Tuesday afternoon.

 

Then it was probably a working practice that had continued since the days when the BMRB was doing the chart. The BBC was full of these for many years. The BBC could have in fact broadcast the chart on Sunday, it didn't see the need, since it gave TOTP the first opportunity to broadcast the new top 30 on Thursday. By the 1980's Radio One had lost much of it's audience to ILR, plus was still on the AM band, when most people chose to listen to stereo radio. The Tuesday run-down was just a DJ giving out the chart positions for about 5 minutes. Blink and you would miss it! So most people found out what was doing well from TOTP. This all changed with the introduction of the Network Chart. With the BBC playing a week old chart on Sunday, the public got bored. So the BBC had to scrap old rules and get the chart broadcast after it came out. The BBC had the Tory party dangling the wee will cut off the licence fee and privatise Radio One if it lost too much audience. So that was another pressure.

It's simply the case that the BBC had to be dragged kicking and screaming forward, most often by ILR and ITV, to do what they should have been doing long ago. You have to remember that the BBC powers that be didn't like pop music and thought the charts were a "commercial" for record company products. This is why the run down was restricted to a voice over and not playing any records. DJ's were told also not to mention the chart positions of records not in the 30 or 40 depending on what part of the chart was to be aired by the station.

Oddly it was this attitude of the BBC elite that has put them in deep water over the Savile case, because they didn't care if degenerates were in charge of pop stations or presenting TV shows, just as long as News and Current affairs programs were of the highest standards.

 

The switch over to the Sunday Chart did however mean that TOTP was broadcasting the old chart, so it lost an advantage that it never recovered from.

 

Thanks for the replies guys, some very interesting information there!

Interesting thread. So before the change to a Sunday chart were Music Week publishing on the same day (Tues/Weds) that Radio 1 were first announcing the chart. Could it then have been an agreement that would theoretically have been in place for nearly 20 years at that point, to the effect that although Radio 1 had first announcement rights to the chart they would not announce the charts until the same day that Music Week published them, so as to not negatively affect Music Week's sales, which would presumably have been somewhat reliant on having the exclusive new chart in each issue. I'm just guessing though.

Robbie, Suedehead, Graham and DanChartFan - you've all made great points as to why the charts could have been held back for publication on a Tuesday prior to Oct '87 even though they were compiled on a Sunday.

 

Going a little further on in time (and sorry if this is going off topic btw), but on 31st August 1997 when the chart show was cancelled due to the death of Princess Diana, was the chart still actually compiled that Sunday? Or did they wait until the Monday instead to compile it? I do know they also delayed the Christmas 1988 chart by a day since Christmas Day fell on a Sunday, but they have compiled the chart on Christmas Day if it was a Sunday in subsequent years.

Edited January 31, 201411 yr by donnahjaneymack

I would guess that the compilation of the chart would have been entirely automated by 1997 (i.e. nobody had to press a button or anything) so it would have gone ahead as normal on that date.

I would guess that the compilation of the chart would have been entirely automated by 1997 (i.e. nobody had to press a button or anything) so it would have gone ahead as normal on that date.

 

I had a feeling that would be the case. Technology had moved so far forward by 1997 compared to the '80s! Thanks for the reply Suedehead.

Edited January 31, 201411 yr by donnahjaneymack