Interesting poll of UKIP supporters shows that almost as many want a Labour government as want a Tory government:

 

http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php...es-think-it-has

 

This runs somewhat counter to the meme that all UKIP supporters are Tory voters on loan.

Top rate to 50, land value tax (*.*), inheritance tax reformulated on property but with a threshold reduced to 50k for other assets, basic rate back to 22 (10p restored for the gap between the current personal allowance and the annual minimum wage if and when that's affordable), mansion tax, fuel tax applied to flying, carbon tax on businesses with revenues over a million.

 

That isn't to say I don't believe in any cuts at all, I just think it's deeply unfair to finance a deficit entirely from the hardest hit. The irony being that I legitimately believe we should all be in it together, but that that approach shouldn't be five men on a ladder out of the sea and 'all in it together' being the man at the top saying everyone should take a step down.

 

If there's one guaranteed election loser that's about the size of it. Tax. Everybody hates it except those directly benefitting overall.

 

Seem to recall a tax on property values being the undoing of a certain M. Thatcher....

How many of those Liberals are still in the party?

 

well, I'm not and have neever been "in the party" (or any other one) but I have supported the idea that wealthy people should get taxed on their assets as opposed to getting massive gifthorse tax-dodging offers and schemes.

 

Gosh, that almost sounds socialist! Aaah, I remember socialism from those rose-tinted far-off days of my youth in the 70's when the working man felt they had a party standing up for them and their interests. :P

If there's one guaranteed election loser that's about the size of it. Tax. Everybody hates it except those directly benefitting overall.

 

Seem to recall a tax on property values being the undoing of a certain M. Thatcher....

Her undoing was abolishing a tax on property values and replacing it with the poll tax.

If there's one guaranteed election loser that's about the size of it. Tax. Everybody hates it except those directly benefitting overall.

 

Seem to recall a tax on property values being the undoing of a certain M. Thatcher....

 

I think it depends on what the politicians say the tax is for. If no reason is given, or the tax rise is just to "cut the deficit" or some ill-defined unspecific "to create a fairer society" thing, then yeah, it would be a disaster. People are not going to take well to the idea that they're not even guaranteed to get anything extra out for all the extra tax money they're putting in.

 

If on the other hand the politicians are very specific about what the money from the tax rise will be used for, that it will be used to improve schools or especially to improve the NHS, then I honestly think people would be open to it.

I don't think people would necessarily be open to just a 'we're putting up taxes to put it into the NHS' that they haven't noticed falling apart especially, but I think they would be open to a tax rise for a specifically new service - e.g. adding on something like the National Care Service.

I don't think people would necessarily be open to just a 'we're putting up taxes to put it into the NHS' that they haven't noticed falling apart especially, but I think they would be open to a tax rise for a specifically new service - e.g. adding on something like the National Care Service.

 

They have. On those polls which ask what issues people are concerned about, the NHS has been rising fast lately -- I think the last one I saw had it just ahead of or about level with the economy, miles ahead of "the deficit", and not too far behind immigration.

 

(The NHS is also virtually the only area where Labour have a big lead over the Conservatives, so it would really be foolish if they don't take advantage of that by having a concrete, believable pledge on it to improve it by increasing spending, and instead wasted its potential with tedious soundbites about how "you can't trust the Tories with the NHS" without any substantial suggestions for how Labour would be better.)

Edited July 29, 201410 yr by Danny

I know, but I mean it's not exactly the dominating topic that it is during flu epidemics or winter crises et al. Just 'we're putting your taxes up by 2p for better NHS' without a concrete example of how it'll make things better is one of those things that I think only works if the widespread perception is that the organisation is falling apart, which I don't think is the case. I think more people would be on board with a hypothecated rise for the National Care Service because it's providing something that a. there's a very solid need for, and b. it's offering more than just 'here, give us more money so you can have the service you had ten years ago'.

People have mixed feelings about the NHS, depending on whether you have good or bad experiences. I've seen some mind-numbing unbelievably catastrophic GP misdiagnosis on a friend who was, quite literally, expected to die as a result, but the specialist care miraculously pulled him through it. The (lack of) care my grandmother received though leaves me angry, frozen and ignored half the time for a very unhappy prolonged goodbye. I've got very mixed feelings...but I'd support any party with taxes designed to improve it. There just ain't enough staff on duty. Period.

Edited July 29, 201410 yr by popchartfreak

Meanwhile Cameron decides that it is better to tackle a problem that doesn't exist in the hope it will win votes rather than tackling any of the real problems that do exist. There is no evidence that "benefit tourism" exists on any significant scale - even Cameron himself has admitted as much on one of the rare occasions he told the truth - but that won't stop the half-wit reducing the amount of time EU citizens can claim benefits in the UK. Unfortunately, Labour are so scared of the tabloids that their only criticism is that the government haven't done this already.

Meanwhile Cameron decides that it is better to tackle a problem that doesn't exist in the hope it will win votes rather than tackling any of the real problems that do exist. There is no evidence that "benefit tourism" exists on any significant scale -

 

 

Have you not watched Life On Benefits on Ch.5 these past weeks? A guy came from Romania and hoped to take up to £40,000 from benefits to send home and also save to build a new home back there. :angry: There are many others too he said. He was bringing various family members too to get more benefits. THAT is why we need these rules. In fact if they're not UK born they shouldn't get a penny imo until they've paid some taxes and NI. Let them in to work if they're EU Citizens but no council house and no benefits or NHS services. I think you'd find that's what most Brits think.

Have you not watched Life On Benefits on Ch.5 these past weeks? A guy came from Romania and hoped to take up to £40,000 from benefits to send home and also save to build a new home back there. :angry: There are many others too he said. He was bringing various family members too to get more benefits. THAT is why we need these rules. In fact if they're not UK born they shouldn't get a penny imo until they've paid some taxes and NI. Let them in to work if they're EU Citizens but no council house and no benefits or NHS services. I think you'd find that's what most Brits think.

I've got better things to do with my time than watch deliberately provocative programmes which concentrate on the exceptions as if they were the norm. Cameron is trying to gain votes with a policy which will save little more than he would spend on a pair of shoes.

In fact if they're not UK born they shouldn't get a penny imo until they've paid some taxes and NI. Let them in to work if they're EU Citizens but no NHS services.

Charming that you'd place money over someone's life.

Interesting poll of UKIP supporters shows that almost as many want a Labour government as want a Tory government:

 

http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php...es-think-it-has

 

This runs somewhat counter to the meme that all UKIP supporters are Tory voters on loan.

I thought the new meme was that the old meme was no longer relevant.

I thought the new meme was that the old meme was no longer relevant.

The new meme is that the new meme that the old meme was no longer relevant is no longer relevant, but luckily there's a new meme coming around that should once again disprove the new meme.

Or rather, both memes are correct, depending on whether the media are talking about Ukip all the time or not. The Labour-leaning kippers have tended to drift back in the off-season. The Tory ones stay kipped.

I thought the new meme was that the old meme was no longer relevant.

 

 

The new meme is that the new meme that the old meme was no longer relevant is no longer relevant, but luckily there's a new meme coming around that should once again disprove the new meme.

 

I can't work out if these are jokes at my expense or not(!), but...

 

Or rather, both memes are correct, depending on whether the media are talking about Ukip all the time or not. The Labour-leaning kippers have tended to drift back in the off-season. The Tory ones stay kipped.

 

...this isn't true. That poll I posted was taken a few days ago, and it still shows almost half of UKIP's current support prefer Labour to the Tories.

Edited July 30, 201410 yr by Danny

I can't work out if these are jokes at my expense or not(!), but...

They aren't, it was more poking fun at how quickly accepted canards by the media get ditched for the latest 'as we ALL KNOW, x is now a cliché and therefore not true' fashionable position, and that that trend's starting to eat itself when it comes to how the media treat Ukip :D

 

...this isn't true. That poll I posted was taken a few days ago, and it still shows almost half of UKIP's current support prefer Labour to the Tories.

Ah, now that's an interesting one because it collides with the pretty consistent crossbreak we find in the polls that Ukip's converts are 3:1 Tory:Labour (and were 2:1 even at peak Ukip). I've long had the theory (backed up quite a bit by some of the masochistic comments online, which isn't especially scientific a method of confirming this theory but at least reassures me that this phenomenon does exist) that actually there are a fair chunk of ex-Tory Ukip supporters who would prefer Ed Miliband to win next year on the basis that it would 'clear the stables' in the Conservative Party, but also be in their minds so utterly disastrous a left-wing government that a proper right-wing government would sweep to victory in 2020.

 

I'm sure that isn't that unfamiliar a thought process to you in any case! :D

The new meme is that the new meme that the old meme was no longer relevant is no longer relevant, but luckily there's a new meme coming around that should once again disprove the new meme.

You're sounding like a Tory. It's all me, me, me.

I can see the Tories pressing the self-destruct button if they lose next year. Cameron has already left the door open to the batshit fringes and he'd be gone for sure.