Yeah, no.

 

The Tories will take them all.

Yes, for just 73 MEP's out of 766 - so whoever we vote for, nothing really changes.

FFS, not this moronic belief again that dumping the ECR means we will have *no* rights. :rolleyes:

 

It will simply be replaced with our own version, without the idiotic clauses that criminals abuse to avoid deportation!

 

Just like the right wing media wants it here then.

Yes, for just 73 MEP's out of 766 - so whoever we vote for, nothing really changes.

You could make the exact same argument for voting in one constituency out of the UK's 650 - the European Parliament is balanced into left wing and right wing blocs that we have just as much influence on shifting the power of balance between as anyone else. It's not the European Parliament's fault we never paid serious attention to what European parliamentary elections were for.

Well for a start, strike trade agreements without needing the approval of 27 other countries

Yes, we will have this freedom. However, which bloc is currently by far the biggest trade partner we have, which we're about to enter pretty dire trading conditions with, just so we can have the power to make these trade agreements with other countries?

 

(Also good luck setting up a trade agreement with the likes of Turkey or India that doesn't involve relaxing visa restrictions for them. Which would definitely go down well with everyone who voted to leave the EU because of freedom of movement.)

c) His 'clarification' on student loans, in that he didn't really mean that he was going to write them all off.

Which was never a policy and was never taken as one by the vast majority of people who voted for Labour on that basis, as polling has found.

 

What's interesting about that latest poll is that Jeremy Corbyn is back at net disapproval rating, having had a bump into net positive since the election. I'm not sure what he's done over the recess to cause such a drop - the only potential negative things that could've played a part were -

 

a) His response to the Venezuelan crisis and his refusal to publicly denounce the anti-democratic policies of President Maduro, whom Corbyn has previous been rather chummy with (instead taking the "Trump option" by appropriating blame to both sides)

b) the removal of Sarah Champion as shadow minister following her article on the exploitation of women by rape gangs.

A 6 point fall in *net* approval is within the margin of error, so while Labour haven't really been making the news over the summer I'm not inclined to think it's statistically significant.

Edited August 25, 20177 yr by Qassändra

I actually thought it was policy, but I also accept he cannot work miracles and the Tories and their braindead, right wing southern supporters and Scottish turncoats have left this country in dire straights.

It was never policy and it's exceptionally clear from the interview itself he wasn't making a cast-iron promise to wipe out student debt, but that Labour would look into doing *something* to ameliorate the debt for students that had paid 9k fees.

 

First of all, we want to get rid of student fees altogether. We’ll do it as soon as we get in, and we’ll then introduce legislation to ensure that any student going from the 2017-18 academic year will not pay fees. They will pay them, but we’ll rebate them when we’ve got the legislation through – that’s fundamentally the principle behind it." [this is the bit that was policy and was in the manifesto]

 

"Yes, there is a block of those that currently have a massive debt, and I’m looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden. I don’t have the simple answer for it at this stage – I don’t think anybody would expect me to, because this election was called unexpectedly; we had two weeks to prepare all of this – but I’m very well aware of that problem, and I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it."

 

Taking "I will deal with it" after that bolded part as a cast-iron pledge to eradicate all student debt...is reaching, to put it mildly.

Edited August 25, 20177 yr by Qassändra

The right wing press will have seiezed on it to call it a broken promise down the line, which will have fed the fake news of Fb etc, hence the mistsken belief it was policy.

I'm not really sure what use there'll be in 2022 (or whenever the next election is) in litigating whether or not something was an election promise in a general election five years before that Labour didn't win, not least as Labour will almost certainly have a specific policy on it by then.

I'm hoping this grubby little extremely rigt-wing Little England government collapses sooner rather than later, but something tells me the Tories will cling to power as long as possible, funnelling up as much wealth as possible and making it harder for Labou to reverse the decline and have less resources for its policies in the next Parliament. I also think they WILL try and destroy the NHS beyond repair before they go to force a private system to funnel even MORE wealth up to the top. The Tories will cling to power as they know their time is up, especially under Mad May. They would NEVER risk another elecion under that joke.

Yeah, no.

 

The Tories will take them all.

 

You seem to be becoming obsessed with the Tories.

 

Just like the right wing media wants it here then.

 

What would *anyone* have a problem with deporting convicted foreign criminals?

 

Which was never a policy and was never taken as one by the vast majority of people who voted for Labour on that basis, as polling has found.

A 6 point fall in *net* approval is within the margin of error, so while Labour haven't really been making the news over the summer I'm not inclined to think it's statistically significant.

 

I can't agree with you on the first point, as the increased turnout amongst young voters strongly indicates they *did* take it to mean that.

 

I wonder of you'd have considered a 6% increase as 'just a statistical artifact'? :teresa:

 

It was never policy and it's exceptionally clear from the interview itself he wasn't making a cast-iron promise to wipe out student debt, but that Labour would look into doing *something* to ameliorate the debt for students that had paid 9k fees.

Taking "I will deal with it" after that bolded part as a cast-iron pledge to eradicate all student debt...is reaching, to put it mildly.

 

The issue is not the exact wording, but that he cynically did nothing to repudiate that mistaken believe, once it had taken hold.

 

I'm hoping this grubby little extremely rigt-wing Little England government collapses sooner rather than later, but something tells me the Tories will cling to power as long as possible, funnelling up as much wealth as possible and making it harder for Labou to reverse the decline and have less resources for its policies in the next Parliament. I also think they WILL try and destroy the NHS beyond repair before they go to force a private system to funnel even MORE wealth up to the top.

 

The Tories know better than that - abolishing the NHS would cause a massive landslide win for Labour in the following election!

What would *anyone* have a problem with deporting convicted foreign criminals?

 

The Tories know better than that - abolishing the NHS would cause a massive landslide win for Labour in the following election!

 

1st point: No-one would have problems deporting serious criminals once they've served their time and if they have no legal basis to stay. Deporting people for stealing loaves of bread, though, is bringing back the good ol days when the USA and Australia got all of our very own British "criminals". The devil is in the detail.

 

2nd: you are seriously misinformed. The Tories are as we speak privatising huge swathes of the NHS, it's an ongoing low-key process, and the fact that Jeremy "rhyming-slang" is still there years later shows what their real intention is. The Death-rate has gone up and life expectancy has not risen for the first time in a generation thanks to the "look after yourself/no-care-in-the-community" Tory policies of the last 7 years. The NHS can still deal with heart attacks and stuff like that, but the follow-up care, and other care, is being starved of money deliberately, not least by forcing Councils to take on expensive responsibilities while massively hacking at their budgets. ABOLISHING the NHS is completely not an issue becuase they can kill it through strangulation and privatisation.

 

Speaking as a Local Gov employee of decades, trust me, nobody does crucial work better than dedicated publicly-financed staff, the private sector only care about profit and how many holes there are in the contracts that are forced out due to Tory policies. And I work for a staunch Tory Council. All attempts to transfer work and responsibilities to the private sector have failed miserably for 30 years with those responsible claiming massive success (providing no financial evidence) as they bring services back in-house yet again. They make the same mistakes decade after decade.

 

 

I wonder how the polls will change now that Labour have a firm stance on Brexit and want to remain in the single market. There's no point in leaving if we remain in the single market, so they could lose a few voters who voted for brexit, but at the same time they could absorb some of the Lib Dem's remain voters.

Edited August 27, 20177 yr by Envoirment

1st point: No-one would have problems deporting serious criminals once they've served their time and if they have no legal basis to stay. Deporting people for stealing loaves of bread, though, is bringing back the good ol days when the USA and Australia got all of our very own British "criminals". The devil is in the detail.

 

2nd: you are seriously misinformed. The Tories are as we speak privatising huge swathes of the NHS, it's an ongoing low-key process, and the fact that Jeremy "rhyming-slang" is still there years later shows what their real intention is. The Death-rate has gone up and life expectancy has not risen for the first time in a generation thanks to the "look after yourself/no-care-in-the-community" Tory policies of the last 7 years. The NHS can still deal with heart attacks and stuff like that, but the follow-up care, and other care, is being starved of money deliberately, not least by forcing Councils to take on expensive responsibilities while massively hacking at their budgets. ABOLISHING the NHS is completely not an issue becuase they can kill it through strangulation and privatisation.

 

Speaking as a Local Gov employee of decades, trust me, nobody does crucial work better than dedicated publicly-financed staff, the private sector only care about profit and how many holes there are in the contracts that are forced out due to Tory policies. And I work for a staunch Tory Council. All attempts to transfer work and responsibilities to the private sector have failed miserably for 30 years with those responsible claiming massive success (providing no financial evidence) as they bring services back in-house yet again. They make the same mistakes decade after decade.

 

Bravo, bravo!!

 

If THIS does not get through to him, he is being a contrarian.

 

Their aims are clear. Jeremy Hhhchhhunt is ALSO used to do thei dirty business. So why do they have him in charge of the NHS, strving it of funding, causing a 'crisis', arguing with medical students and F1s and with STEVEN BLOODY HAWKINGS??

 

Also, their clarification of that subject will only HELP. It finally removes the criticism of them having no idea r.e Europe.

It's also a hedging-your-bets answer: leaving, but staying in the market. With 25% I think? Now regretting their Brexit vote, it was a clever move to capitalise on this disaster.

1st point: No-one would have problems deporting serious criminals once they've served their time and if they have no legal basis to stay. Deporting people for stealing loaves of bread, though, is bringing back the good ol days when the USA and Australia got all of our very own British "criminals". The devil is in the detail.

 

I don't think you're suggesting that I would have people deported for relatively trivial crimes, but could you confirm that you don't think I meant that?

 

 

I wonder how the polls will change now that Labour have a firm stance on Brexit and want to remain in the single market. There's no point in leaving if we remain in the single market, so they could lose a few voters who voted for brexit, but at the same time they could absorb some of the Lib Dem's remain voters.

 

It really won't matter what Labour's policy is, as the process will be complete by the time of the next election, and therefore moot.

 

 

It's also a hedging-your-bets answer: leaving, but staying in the market. With 25% I think? Now regretting their Brexit vote, it was a clever move to capitalise on this disaster.

 

You Remainers do love hyperbole. ;)

 

The problem is, according to EU rules we cannot be part of the single market without being a member - and we've already decided not to be.

No, no, that is a lie.

 

People voted Leave after being told by BREXITEERS that we would be able to stay in the single market.

 

And are you sure about that election point? A propped up minority government is NOTORIOUSLY unstable. With Mad May setting a resignation date, expect the knives to be out ALREADY. They may even cut their losses, force her out and shaft Labour with the whole Brexit debacle.

It really won't matter what Labour's policy is, as the process will be complete by the time of the next election, and therefore moot.

It's an opinion polls thread. Our stance could well have an effect on our standing in the opinion polls. Not difficult.

No, no, that is a lie.

 

People voted Leave after being told by BREXITEERS that we would be able to stay in the single market.

 

I don't remember hearing any such thing - perhaps you can provide a reference that says otherwise (preferably not something off-the-record by a random MP)

 

And are you sure about that election point? A propped up minority government is NOTORIOUSLY unstable. With Mad May setting a resignation date, expect the knives to be out ALREADY. They may even cut their losses, force her out and shaft Labour with the whole Brexit debacle.

 

Yes, I am pretty sure of that - whatever the disagreements within the Tory party, neither they nor the DUP want to see Labour back in power!

 

FYI, here is a link to the gov't Referendum Leaflet

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...-for-the-uk.pdf