The idea that Corbyn's 'conveniently' divorcing himself from New Labour is laughable. He REBELLED FOUR HUNDRED TIMES DURING! It's hardly Andy Burnham turning around and disavowing New Labour having been a CABINET MINISTER...

 

Yes, but what I mean is he's in the same party. Saying "oh I never agreed with so and so" even if true is still ignoring the fact that the party is the same party and largely comprised of the same MP's and members, with a flush of johnny-come-lately's. Just like the current Libdems. Absolutely no difference between the 2 parties as far as that goes. To take that attitude is to completely forgive the Tories for everything they did in the 80's on the grounds that most of them are dead or retired, mentally if not physically. Which Labour supporters most certainly don't and most people have long memories when it comes to forgiveness....

 

As I've said before hypocrisy annoys me. I'm more socially left-wing than most, by the way, and I probably agreed with a large proportion of Corbyn's criticisms over the years, I obviously just get overly wound up when I see kettle calling frying pan...

Except that Labour is a far broader church than the Lib Dems could ever be, so the distancing (especially given his voting record) is a lot more credible.

Except that Labour is a far broader church than the Lib Dems could ever be, so the distancing (especially given his voting record) is a lot more credible.

 

think you'll find the libdems voted against Iraq, were against further education fees, and other assorted policy-voting during the New Labour period when Tories happily supported New Labour. Not that far removed except the libdems were no near as right wing as much of the Labour Party, so you're right in that respect :P

Corbyn, that well known Iraq War supporter.

Yes I focused on Corbynesque libdem policies to make a point. I'm sure there were other examples :teresa:

 

Though y'all have to admit that if one is not accepting blame for previous party policies and problems then one should also not attempt to take credit for previous party achievements and genuine social advancements that current party leaders had nothing to do with. Can't have it both ways......

Yes I focused on Corbynesque libdem policies to make a point. I'm sure there were other examples :teresa:

 

Though y'all have to admit that if one is not accepting blame for previous party policies and problems then one should also not attempt to take credit for previous party achievements and genuine social advancements that current party leaders had nothing to do with. Can't have it both ways......

Claim credit for it? No. Point out that he voted for it? Absolutely.

Also I'd be tearing him to shreds if he tried to claim the upsides of New Labour. But then, there's a reason why he doesn't.

Off topic - here's a fun little curio. People's reactions to the 1949 budget. 'They're all the same, dunno who to vote for' back then too...

 

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/opinions-on-budget/

Claim credit for it? No. Point out that he voted for it? Absolutely.

I should've been clearer - I was meaning historic Labour party achievements. There is still a "we" the Labour party achieved this fondly looking back through a rosy haze. Claiming credit and inspiration. The Labour party did good and it did bad both.

You seem to want a level of equivocation from Corbyn that you yourself would never apply to the Lib Dems were you not forced to by constant reminders.

You seem to want a level of equivocation from Corbyn that you yourself would never apply to the Lib Dems were you not forced to by constant reminders.

 

not at all. I want equality. I always want equality not a biased one-sided view of events from the point of view of a party supporter. Slagging off the libdems for what they did while in government and not accepting flack for what Labour did while in government (which was a hell of a lot more catastrophic) is just hypocrisy. Choosing to view events from a biased perspective. I don't have that bias. Libdems dont have a lot to be slagged off about as they havent done or harmed much of anything for a hundred years. Now that Tories are more unbridled in power you might well say at best all they did was delay things 5 years and they might as well as not bothered going into government at all and sat on the sidelines.

 

So a waste of time, versus Labour's culpability while in power. And the Tories. Both parties refusing to ever ever acknowledge their mistakes. At least Corbyn, who desreves credit for it, recognises that the voting public view Labour's ongoing denial as an ongoing problem. Where I'm going to pull him up is where he and other politicians are inconsistent with what they are saying and doing or proposing to do. Politicians need criticism to keep them from f***ing up bigtime. When they don't get it and they don't listen, thats when they f*** up the most....

You act as if actively backing a party is something to be ashamed of.

Err theres no reason why backing a party should you mean you have to blindly follow the party whip never criticise the leader and lose the ability to reason for yourself rather than mouth the old partyline. Ask corbyn, he knows a thing or two about that. Its pretty clear nobody on here in the labour party is 100% on corbyn or his chances of winning, but the reason he's there is cos people are fed up with political points scoring and rhetoric and mediaspeak. In the real world people say what they think pretty bluntly. The old ways of campaigning didnt work and theres a new style now...

 

Had i been a member of the labour party i would have been more corbyn than blair. That doesnt mean i should suddenly lose the capacity to think for myself and say what i think anymore than corbyn did, a member of and leader of your party.

 

 

Hold on, where have you got the idea from that any Labour member on here "blindly follows the whip"?!

poor choice of words. Following the party line on media comments would be more accurate, like attacking libdems tactically (which backfired), and continuing to make (as I said and which triggered this line of discussion) kettle calling frying pan comments, and attempting to rewrite history to a more electorally advantageous slant. The inability to admit that anything any other party does is of any benefit whatsoever, or at least not disastrous, or as a result of previous policy.

 

Not generally of course, I noticed a change towards the nearing of the last election, and certainly since there's been a willingness to criticise those in control of the party, which of course should be healthy, and should challenge any policies that are just plain electoral suicide or stupid. To not do that is to guarantee another Tory massacre. Note the different tack taken on losing elections by resigning party leaders: only one of them in recent times admitted he had personally cocked up and made a huge error and apologised. That man was called Nicky Cleggy. The rest have supermassive egos.

Clegg should have realised he'd cocked up slightly before May 2015.

He did. He couldnt admit in public till after the election. Still waiting for blair brown millipede farage and no doubt in the future the current posh twins who have all caused far more large scale cock ups. Sorry would be nice.

He did. He couldnt admit in public till after the election. Still waiting for blair brown millipede farage and no doubt in the future the current posh twins who have all caused far more large scale cock ups. Sorry would be nice.

 

 

Blair won three elections and has nothing to be sorry for whatsoever, in my opinion.

He did. He couldnt admit in public till after the election. Still waiting for blair brown millipede farage and no doubt in the future the current posh twins who have all caused far more large scale cock ups. Sorry would be nice.

Then what was this all about?

 

 

He should have resigned for the good of his party long before the election.

Blair won three elections and has nothing to be sorry for whatsoever, in my opinion.

 

errr, Iraq and lying. Still sorting that mess out. Not killing Right To Buy. Letting the British banks do what they like, letting the banks lend money to people who hadn't got enough income, letting the housing market bubble grow ridiculously and personal national debt reach a trillion. Not building Council houses that were totally needed, allowing People to buy properties to rent out at inflated costs to the taxpayer and pushing up house prices. Allowing foreign-owned companies to buy up British assets. Encouraging dodgy foreign money as investment in the British housing market. Arse-kissing with dictators in favour and hitting those not in favour. Subsidies on shitty diesel when everyone knew it was all bollocks about being more environment friendly. Local government bureaucracy and non-jobs at the expense of people actually doing things. Brown, supporting those who got in debt to protect the banks by hitting those who didn't go into debt, not to mention having a heavy hand in the Blair policies.

 

I could actually go on and on and on but I'll stop there. Blair was a disaster, bar equality legislation, Northern ireland, improving some living standards (temporarily) while allowing the rich to get away with murder stuffing money abroad. Oops I'm going on again aren't I....? :P