There will be an 'emergency budget' within weeks of a leave vote.

Avoided by allowing the Bank of England to throw billions of pounds at various measures to avoid economic collapse. In other words, the government let the BofE deal with the short term problems rather than introducing a tax-raising budget.

Avoided by allowing the Bank of England to throw billions of pounds at various measures to avoid economic collapse. In other words, the government let the BofE deal with the short term problems rather than introducing a tax-raising budget.

 

So what, the 'emergency budget' was threatened and it never happened. Therefore that WAS a lie, was it not?

So what, the 'emergency budget' was threatened and it never happened. Therefore that WAS a lie, was it not?

No, it was avoided by other means - in part because the need to act was so urgent that it couldn't wait for a Budget.

No, it was avoided by other means - in part because the need to act was so urgent that it couldn't wait for a Budget.

 

The original statement remains a lie. Taxes were not raised, cuts were not made.

The original statement remains a lie. Taxes were not raised, cuts were not made.

The original statement was a prediction - therefore, it could not be a lie. The general point - a Leave vote will have severe short-term economic consequences - was true.

The original statement was a prediction - therefore, it could not be a lie. The general point - a Leave vote will have severe short-term economic consequences - was true.

 

The general point does have some truth true of course, but I'm afraid the specific point (which was not a prediction, but a stated fact) was that of a threat of a 'punishment budget' after voting to leave - including the increase of income tax and significant spending cuts to public services. This was presented as such in order to scare people to voting for the status quo and economic stability and was never carried out. It was therefore a lie. Of course the Bank Of England cut interest rates and instigated further QE - they had to look like they were doing something and don't need much excuse to start pumping up debt and the housing market!

A fair amount of the short-term market volatility was caused by the slightly 'overhyped' prediction of doom that Osborne and others in HMG were making prior to the vote, so IMO they were no more virtuous than those in Vote Leave!

The general point does have some truth true of course, but I'm afraid the specific point (which was not a prediction, but a stated fact) was that of a threat of a 'punishment budget' after voting to leave - including the increase of income tax and significant spending cuts to public services. This was presented as such in order to scare people to voting for the status quo and economic stability and was never carried out. It was therefore a lie. Of course the Bank Of England cut interest rates and instigated further QE - they had to look like they were doing something and don't need much excuse to start pumping up debt and the housing market!

A fair amount of the short-term market volatility was caused by the slightly 'overhyped' prediction of doom that Osborne and others in HMG were making prior to the vote, so IMO they were no more virtuous than those in Vote Leave!

The £350m was a blatant lie about something that was happening. That is very different from a prediction that proved to be inaccurate because of some evasive action

The claim was that we paid £350m p.w. to the EU. That claim was a lie. I didn't see the point of reading the article beyond the point where the writer repeated that lie.

 

We don't pay the EU *weekly*, that much is correct, but our annual gross payment is the *equivalent* of £350m/wk. I suppose you could say it was 'The truth, but not the whole truth'. ;)

 

 

2. Teresa May said 2021 or didn't you listen to her speeches? About the time of the next election.....

 

3. You are putting words into my mouth. I never said anything of the sort. All I pointed out was that your constant harping on about older being wiser is bullshit and you only use it to back up points you make then dismiss it when it doesn't suit (ie 1973 referendum). I was older and wiser than you then, and I still am :P

 

Cold calling IS a big problem, and old people's phone numbers are constantly sold on by foreigners preying on them. It's not news because there is nothing anyone can do about it. They live abroad. They ring everyday.

 

4. I didn't say it was insulting or polite, and dont recall ever having had an insulting personal comment from you. just irrelevant as a comment is all. harmless though and marginally amusing comeback.

 

5. Depends totally on how the economy performs post-Brexit. Priti Patel was only today talking about Brexit being the perfect opportunity to privatise swathes of the Social Care systems in the UK. That means those on benefits, support, NHS, local government, health & safety, schools, and anything that basically rich people object to paying more tax for....

 

I'm paraphrasing liberally but the sentiment is correct.

 

2, I don't listen to *any* politicians speeches - they are invariably tedious BS!

 

3. I was making a point about not using stereotypes

 

4. One of the main reasons I always try to remain polite, is that I regard abuse as sign that someone has lost the debate.

 

5. Does *anyone* like paying tax? :lol: Some Tories forget that this country has avoided violent upheavals over the years by the wealthy knowing when to make compromises, rather than take a hard-line stance which would increase pressure to the point where people would rise up against them. The Poll Tax is a prime example - they saw the writing on the wall if they didn't dump it!

 

The claim was that we paid £350m p.w. to the EU. That claim was a lie. I didn't see the point of reading the article beyond the point where the writer repeated that lie.

 

You *asked* me for examples - I provided them. If you're not prepared to give them a fair hearing, then why ask in the first place?

How many more times do you need to be told that the £350m claim is a big fat lie?

 

Forget stupid arguments about how frequently the payments are made, look at the facts. We get a rebate which means that our contribution (the amount we actually send to the EU) is a lot less than £350m p.w. That rebate will end when (if) we leave.

 

Therefore, the £350 claim is a lie.

 

The claim that all the money could go to the NHS is simply misleading, even without the issue of the rebate. If all of the money went to the NHS that would mean not replacing all the payments made to the UK by the EU. That money goes into infrastructure, scientific research, regional development grants etc.

 

Then there are the various agencies of which we are a part. Take just one example - the regulation of medicines. That is currently done at EU level. Unless you think we shouldn't bother regulating medicines we will have to do it at a UK level. It is reasonable to assume that the cost will be greater than our contribution to the EU body.

The £350m was a blatant lie about something that was happening. That is very different from a prediction that proved to be inaccurate because of some evasive action

 

...and I'd add in support, it was a threat by the duo that saw their jobs about to go to oblivion, NOT an official Remain campaign policy:

 

ie: "These are the reasons to stay:

 

If you dont vote for us we will raise taxes in the autumn"

 

Dont recall that ever being part of the official campaign as a promise or fact.

 

One could make the same argument for anything Farage said, of course, through not being part of the official campaign and therefore was just a campaign of disnformation as he wasnt in it, and was never going to be in a position to deliver anything he promised.

 

That is NOT the same position as "We spend 350m a week, let's spend it on the NHS" or "The EU will give us a rose-tinted fabulous deal, just because they need the UK".

 

That is both a lie and a broken promise.

We don't pay the EU *weekly*, that much is correct, but our annual gross payment is the *equivalent* of £350m/wk. I suppose you could say it was 'The truth, but not the whole truth'. ;)

2, I don't listen to *any* politicians speeches - they are invariably tedious BS!

 

3. I was making a point about not using stereotypes

 

4. One of the main reasons I always try to remain polite, is that I regard abuse as sign that someone has lost the debate.

 

5. Does *anyone* like paying tax? :lol: Some Tories forget that this country has avoided violent upheavals over the years by the wealthy knowing when to make compromises, rather than take a hard-line stance which would increase pressure to the point where people would rise up against them. The Poll Tax is a prime example - they saw the writing on the wall if they didn't dump it!

 

2. That explains a lot

 

3. While advancing the stereotype that older people are wiser than young people

 

4. so do I

 

5. Nobody likes paying tax, but we have to. The wealthy don't have to, they burrow it away in the Virgin Islands and elsewhere through creative accounting. They look after their own interests (see Priti Pratel speech, or May's husband's job, or Farage's "creative" use of EU taxpayers money). If you think for a single second that wealthy people have some sort of moral chip to help others you are clearly factually misled. SOME do, but mostly those that have experienced poverty themselves, or are educated enough to realise that a fair society is a stable society. An unfair society (as viewed by those on the bottom) is doomed in the long run. Kinda what the EU is all about really.....

You *asked* me for examples - I provided them. If you're not prepared to give them a fair hearing, then why ask in the first place?

There is not much point in wasting time reading an article by someone who blows their credibility in the first few sentences.

She copied parts of her speech from the West Wing!!

The claim was that we paid £350m p.w. to the EU. That claim was a lie. I didn't see the point of reading the article beyond the point where the writer repeated that lie.

 

In which case, i'll copy & paste what you refused to read :

 

 

 

European Council President Donald Tusk, said western political civilisation would be destroyed if the UK voted ‘Leave’. As I am sitting here writing this article, and as you are currently reading this, it is safe to say western political civilisation has not ended. Therefore, we must conclude this was a ‘Remain’ lie.

 

David Cameron implied in a speech about the “serried rows of white headstones” that World War 3 would be upon us if Brexit occurred. The last time I checked the UK had not invaded Poland or any other country, and therefore we must conclude this was a lie.

 

George Osborne predicted tax rises and spending cuts would be implemented. To date, no changes to the planned tax rates or public spending have been implemented. So, another lie, and thankfully after his sacking Osborne is no longer in a position create his ‘punishment budget’.

 

Despite Anna Soubry’s claim to the contrary on a recent Question Time appearance, Remainers did suggest there would be an immediate Brexit recession. No recession to date, in fact the OECD now believes the UK economy will grow 1.8% this year, up 0.1% on its pre-referendum estimate. Even Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England, now admits he is “quietly optimistic” about Brexit. Lie number four.

 

3 million people in the UK will lose their jobs was the fictitious figure banded about. However, in July the claimant count fell by 8,600 to 763,600, despite an expected rise of 9,500. Another lie.

 

“A dangerous fantasy” is how Nick Clegg described Nigel Farage’s claim of EU plans to create an army. Barely three months on from the Referendum, Juncker has proposed an EU Army. I’m looking forward to Nick Clegg’s next apology video like the one he made after his last whopper.

 

We were told companies would leave the UK in their droves, especially in the car industry. There is no sign of this, and UK car manufacturing achieving its 12th successive month of growth in July, with production passing one million units in seven months for the first time in 12 years. Lie number 7.

 

David Cameron said he wouldn’t resign as Prime Minister if he lost the Referendum vote. Enough said.

 

The former Prime Minister also tried to claim the UK could manage its immigration policy while inside the EU. Why are ‘Remain’ campaigners insisting we start to control immigration in any Brexit deal then? Because we cannot control EU immigration now, proving Cameron was lying.

 

Universities wanted the UK to remain in the EU because leaving would result in Horizon 2020 funding disappearing. Our new Chancellor, Philip Hammond, has agreed to keep this funding in place. Lie number 10.

 

 

 

There is not much point in wasting time reading an article by someone who blows their credibility in the first few sentences.

 

You want me to ask you for an 'approved source' list now? :rolleyes: :wacko:

In which case, i'll copy & paste what you refused to read :

European Council President Donald Tusk, said western political civilisation would be destroyed if the UK voted ‘Leave’. As I am sitting here writing this article, and as you are currently reading this, it is safe to say western political civilisation has not ended. Therefore, we must conclude this was a ‘Remain’ lie.

 

David Cameron implied in a speech about the “serried rows of white headstones” that World War 3 would be upon us if Brexit occurred. The last time I checked the UK had not invaded Poland or any other country, and therefore we must conclude this was a lie.

 

George Osborne predicted tax rises and spending cuts would be implemented. To date, no changes to the planned tax rates or public spending have been implemented. So, another lie, and thankfully after his sacking Osborne is no longer in a position create his ‘punishment budget’.

 

Despite Anna Soubry’s claim to the contrary on a recent Question Time appearance, Remainers did suggest there would be an immediate Brexit recession. No recession to date, in fact the OECD now believes the UK economy will grow 1.8% this year, up 0.1% on its pre-referendum estimate. Even Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England, now admits he is “quietly optimistic” about Brexit. Lie number four.

 

3 million people in the UK will lose their jobs was the fictitious figure banded about. However, in July the claimant count fell by 8,600 to 763,600, despite an expected rise of 9,500. Another lie.

 

“A dangerous fantasy” is how Nick Clegg described Nigel Farage’s claim of EU plans to create an army. Barely three months on from the Referendum, Juncker has proposed an EU Army. I’m looking forward to Nick Clegg’s next apology video like the one he made after his last whopper.

 

We were told companies would leave the UK in their droves, especially in the car industry. There is no sign of this, and UK car manufacturing achieving its 12th successive month of growth in July, with production passing one million units in seven months for the first time in 12 years. Lie number 7.

 

David Cameron said he wouldn’t resign as Prime Minister if he lost the Referendum vote. Enough said.

 

The former Prime Minister also tried to claim the UK could manage its immigration policy while inside the EU. Why are ‘Remain’ campaigners insisting we start to control immigration in any Brexit deal then? Because we cannot control EU immigration now, proving Cameron was lying.

 

Universities wanted the UK to remain in the EU because leaving would result in Horizon 2020 funding disappearing. Our new Chancellor, Philip Hammond, has agreed to keep this funding in place. Lie number 10.

You want me to ask you for an 'approved source' list now? :rolleyes: :wacko:

 

 

1) These are all predictions. As I keep saying, predictions cannot, by definition, be lies. Do you think a weather forecaster was lying if they get the forecast wrong?

 

2) We haven't left yet.

 

3) Everybody with any sense knew that Cameron would have no choice but to resign if Leave won. However, it would have been difficult for him to admit it.

In which case, i'll copy & paste what you refused to read :

European Council President Donald Tusk, said western political civilisation would be destroyed if the UK voted ‘Leave’. As I am sitting here writing this article, and as you are currently reading this, it is safe to say western political civilisation has not ended. Therefore, we must conclude this was a ‘Remain’ lie.

 

David Cameron implied in a speech about the “serried rows of white headstones” that World War 3 would be upon us if Brexit occurred. The last time I checked the UK had not invaded Poland or any other country, and therefore we must conclude this was a lie.

 

George Osborne predicted tax rises and spending cuts would be implemented. To date, no changes to the planned tax rates or public spending have been implemented. So, another lie, and thankfully after his sacking Osborne is no longer in a position create his ‘punishment budget’.

 

Despite Anna Soubry’s claim to the contrary on a recent Question Time appearance, Remainers did suggest there would be an immediate Brexit recession. No recession to date, in fact the OECD now believes the UK economy will grow 1.8% this year, up 0.1% on its pre-referendum estimate. Even Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England, now admits he is “quietly optimistic” about Brexit. Lie number four.

 

3 million people in the UK will lose their jobs was the fictitious figure banded about. However, in July the claimant count fell by 8,600 to 763,600, despite an expected rise of 9,500. Another lie.

 

“A dangerous fantasy” is how Nick Clegg described Nigel Farage’s claim of EU plans to create an army. Barely three months on from the Referendum, Juncker has proposed an EU Army. I’m looking forward to Nick Clegg’s next apology video like the one he made after his last whopper.

 

We were told companies would leave the UK in their droves, especially in the car industry. There is no sign of this, and UK car manufacturing achieving its 12th successive month of growth in July, with production passing one million units in seven months for the first time in 12 years. Lie number 7.

 

David Cameron said he wouldn’t resign as Prime Minister if he lost the Referendum vote. Enough said.

 

The former Prime Minister also tried to claim the UK could manage its immigration policy while inside the EU. Why are ‘Remain’ campaigners insisting we start to control immigration in any Brexit deal then? Because we cannot control EU immigration now, proving Cameron was lying.

 

Universities wanted the UK to remain in the EU because leaving would result in Horizon 2020 funding disappearing. Our new Chancellor, Philip Hammond, has agreed to keep this funding in place. Lie number 10.

You want me to ask you for an 'approved source' list now? :rolleyes: :wacko:

 

Since when was Donald Tusk involved in the campaign? Remember the End-Of-The-World vitriol when Obama said the UK would go to the end of the line? Recall how Farage spit and mewled at a "foreigner" interfering in the vote? Then he went to America and campaigned for Trump and Germany and France for the Far Right-cum-neo-nazis....

 

IF Cameron implied WW3 was on the way why was it not on the front page of the Mail and Sun? That would be political suicide of the highest order.

 

AS Suedey said, tax rises have been avoided because a) B of E rescued the economy in the short term (again) by making interest rates the lowest in history and pumping shitloads of money into the economy (fake money).

 

Brexit recession has yet to happen because we have yet to have Brexit. The pound DID plummet immediately though and hasnt recovered. Carney's job is to stabilise the economy and be reassuring. He will be fired if he doesn't. The previous Governor was oblivious to the banking crisis and housing superbubble and debt mountain and toed the political party line. They all do.

 

3 million lose their jobs? Yet to see if that turns out to be tru or not (if it was ever claimed by the Leave campaign as opposed to desperate Cameron the fool who got us in this mess). Case unproven as we haven't left yet. The economy works slowly.

 

Proposals to create an EU army are still just proposals by one man who isn't King Of Europe. Even if they are serious things may depend on how much the UK continues to contribute towards the defence of Europe (may has suggested she's still in favour).

 

Car industries were immediately bribed with unknown ("financially confidential") amounts to invest in keeping them here. That means we are paying them to stay. Hardly a confident action. Passing 1million, hardly surprising when people have been driving the same cars for 12 years - sooner or later they pack in and you have to buy a new one. That's if those figures are true (no source quoted).

 

Cameron is a twat. Always was still is. Only a fool would believe anything he has ever claimed that wasn't backed up on any issue whatsoever. Much like Johnson, farage, Gove, Fox and Davies.

 

The immigration statement is a confused illogical mess. No surprise there. Much like Davies and May's current confused stance towards folk who still live here as many leave in droves already back to the EU.

 

the European Uni claim was ceratinly not one I ever heard in the campaign information, never heard it before, but I would add foreign student numbers HAVE dropped already. That means less money, less jobs. It will take a while to trickle through (especailly given the Brexiting gov ministers used students as a way to boost the numbers of quoted immigrants. Recall all those "Invasion by Turkish rapists" headlines? Has Turkey joined the EU? Will they ever? Not looking remotely likely this side of hell freezing over. oddly enough Brexit May is suddenly besties with Erdogan. Care to explain the change of heart? Also known as lies a smuch as any of the pap in this article.

 

None of the claims in this "article" have sources, it's largely just opinion based on a few spurious claims and assumptions skewed towards preconceived "defend Brexit at all costs" attitudes.

 

That just wasted 15 minutes of my life, so I think I'll go and do something more important now, like pick my nose.

 

 

 

1) These are all predictions. As I keep saying, predictions cannot, by definition, be lies. Do you think a weather forecaster was lying if they get the forecast wrong?

 

A prediction is 'it will be sunny tomorrow' - while 'we're headed for WW3 if you don't vote to Remain' is just blatant scaremongering'

 

 

None of the claims in this "article" have sources, it's largely just opinion based on a few spurious claims and assumptions skewed towards preconceived "defend Brexit at all costs" attitudes.

 

One point that seems to be be missed here is that outright lying is not the only way to run a dishonest campaign - scaremongering is a common tactic too. Apparently though, anything goes as long as it's *your* side doing the misleading... ;)

 

A prediction is 'it will be sunny tomorrow' - while 'we're headed for WW3 if you don't vote to Remain' is just blatant scaremongering'

One point that seems to be be missed here is that outright lying is not the only way to run a dishonest campaign - scaremongering is a common tactic too. Apparently though, anything goes as long as it's *your* side doing the misleading... ;)

So "Tens of millions of Turks will be queuing up to move here" isn't scaremongering?

So "Tens of millions of Turks will be queuing up to move here" isn't scaremongering?

 

Scaremongering has to be credible to be effective, and the above wasn't, since they aren't even members of the EU. That's why WW3 claims were dismissed as absurd.