Well apparently this has got something to do with a country changing votes last contest (which of course I will get in blame for).

 

The amount of countries that can be dragged in general during " Vote Tampering" is rather hilarious and it's something that i'm sure a lot of people have witnessed but can some mods not be hypocritical please.

 

 

THE LIES.

 

 

I'm joking.

 

I think this has been dealt with appallingly, I've not even been asked, a country changed their votes from the original 2/3 days before the results and I originally thought 10 - 15minutes before Mugracia had won, I see no manipulation there. I'm happy that James will win because he deserves it, just don't bother dragging me down because of one member.

 

If we're going to discuss manipulation then please get out of the glass houses.

 

I understand what's going on but I did not change any scores just because I felt like it.

 

 

I've spoke to Joe about this and he changed his votes days before the results? I never changed them without him knowing / him changing them.

 

I'm not getting the abuse when I would have preferred finishing second place rather than first. I'm not overly fussed so blame me etc but that's not what happened! I never changed anything without anyone knowing and never held anyone at gunpoint.

 

SHARING RESULTS :o

 

 

BRAVO LEE!! :wub: :wub:

 

Honest and upfront!! What happened? I know oyu wouldn't have done nything bad purposefully.

The most UPFRONT confession I have ever seen. Oh god get out of Lee's arse for one second. Pathetic.

current buzzjack president (according to the rate results, and rate results only) caught in a scandal and denies all involvement in it even though he's literally guilty beyond any reasonable doubt. WHAT DOES IT REMIND ME OF HMMMM...

 

(joe as lewinsky and joseph as snowden~)

I just saw this, I'm honestly surprised. I thought Lee was joking with his whole charade though I never thought he'd actually do something this serious. I'm disappointed.

 

Ditto.

 

:manson:

I'm away from buzzjack a day and such drama!

 

spreadsheets to be checked by moderators before publishing, people make mistakes - happens in pub quiz marking all the time - and number blindness or column-blindness can happen. I dont check the spreadsheets for my marking being accurately shown I take the listing of my votes on results night as proof of votes. As someone who has both lost out and gained on a final place from number crunching/rules errors there is no blame apportioned (no blame culture) just have a back-up system to catch errors. :teresa:

 

It's still fun, I expect people still have fave countries or preferred types of music, and some countries will never get votes from some other countries for whatever reasons. Just like Eurovision then! :lol:

 

Well done James, a deserved winner!

**CLEARING THINGS UP**

 

I asked Joe on Thursday night why Mulgracia only got 1 point, because he'd previously said to me how big a fan of the song he was, and he then told me that Lee had asked him to change his votes, to move Mulgracia down. Joe agreed but ONLY to one or two spots (they originally were down for 13 points, Aquafina for 15). Joe was then asked by Lee if Mulgracia could be moved further down and Aquafina up to 18, to which Joe ignored. When it came to results, Joe noticed that Lee went ahead with this regardless - Aquafina were bumped up to 18 points and Mulgracia down to 1. Joe spoke to me because he was very annoyed, and it was me who reported it to the mods. He didn't report it immediately because he was worried about the reaction and the fact he may get punished etc. Joe felt extremely guilty having seen that it changed the winner, which was why I told Jack and Yu. I'm posting this to clear things up and Joe's not really in the mood to talk about it. He is extremely sorry for this situation (although it of course wasn't his fault, he shouldn't have been approached in the first place for such a thing) and will of course put his foot down harder in the future if this ever happened.

 

Btw for this, I would ban BOTH participants for some months. Yes, not only Lee, Joe as well. The correct response to this request would've been 'go f*ck yourself', in my book Joe is just as guilty as Lee.

Joe did confess agreeing to giving Lee a couple of extra points to humour him, though. It's one thing to do vote tampering yourself and another to maybe give a couple of more points to your friend. We ALL sometimes do the latter consciously or subconsciously when we vote (this is not to be confused with literally ASKING for points which is quite sad in itself, among other things, really :( ). An extra couple of points to one song is very unlikely to cause big drama like changing of the WINNER. That song needs to have initially finished 2nd AND with less than 2 points behind the winner. Quite an unlikely scenario. Joe would have been as much to blame as Lee if Lee only changed the vote by 2 points and that made the difference, which clearly wasn't the case.

 

So no, Joe is in no way as guilty as Lee. As much as we would like to think BJSC is and should be all objective and shit, it is not and never going to be.

Btw for this, I would ban BOTH participants for some months. Yes, not only Lee, Joe as well. The correct response to this request would've been 'go f*ck yourself', in my book Joe is just as guilty as Lee.

Lee doesn't like being told 'no' to so it's not exactly the smartest (albeit the right) way to deal with that. He would bring it up in 3 years and play this card against you~

(joe as lewinsky and joseph as snowden~)

 

Does this make James Hillary :')

Joe did confess agreeing to giving Lee a couple of extra points to humour him, though. It's one thing to do vote tampering yourself and another to maybe give a couple of more points to your friend. We ALL sometimes do the latter consciously or subconsciously when we vote (this is not to be confused with literally ASKING for points which is quite sad in itself, among other things, really :( ). An extra couple of points to one song is very unlikely to cause big drama like changing of the WINNER. That song needs to have initially finished 2nd AND with less than 2 points behind the winner. Quite an unlikely scenario. Joe would have been as much to blame as Lee if Lee only changed the vote by 2 points and that made the difference, which clearly wasn't the case.

 

So no, Joe is in no way as guilty as Lee. As much as we would like to think BJSC is and should be all objective and shit, it is not and never going to be.

 

Exactly this. Besides, Joe realised he'd cocked up once he saw the results thread and immediately regretted it. At least he did come forward in the end and we got the right winner.

luv it

✿◠‿◠)

Does this make James Hillary :')

james 4 president 2033

I'm away from buzzjack a day and such drama!

 

spreadsheets to be checked by moderators before publishing, people make mistakes - happens in pub quiz marking all the time - and number blindness or column-blindness can happen. I dont check the spreadsheets for my marking being accurately shown I take the listing of my votes on results night as proof of votes. As someone who has both lost out and gained on a final place from number crunching/rules errors there is no blame apportioned (no blame culture) just have a back-up system to catch errors. :teresa:

 

This isn't really what the thread is about but it is a separate issue which has been a problem in each of the last two contests (with Thelonia and Unovia respectively being announced through then removed from the final due to people quickly spotting errors in the spreadsheets). That's really just a problem with semi-final votes being confidential so we rely entirely on the host to not mess up the spreadsheets which is easier said than done. The only way around that would really be to breach the confidentiality and send all the individual PMs to someone else.

http://www.ghqdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Tina-fey-amy-poehler-scandal-small.gif

 

This is very disappointing to hear. I know it's 'just' an online song contest but the dozens of people who put their trust in the host to run things honestly deserve better than this. And trying to escape your culpability by making fun of it is even more disappointing.

Who were the non voters last contest?

Joe did confess agreeing to giving Lee a couple of extra points to humour him, though. It's one thing to do vote tampering yourself and another to maybe give a couple of more points to your friend. We ALL sometimes do the latter consciously or subconsciously when we vote (this is not to be confused with literally ASKING for points which is quite sad in itself, among other things, really :( ). An extra couple of points to one song is very unlikely to cause big drama like changing of the WINNER. That song needs to have initially finished 2nd AND with less than 2 points behind the winner. Quite an unlikely scenario. Joe would have been as much to blame as Lee if Lee only changed the vote by 2 points and that made the difference, which clearly wasn't the case.

 

So no, Joe is in no way as guilty as Lee. As much as we would like to think BJSC is and should be all objective and shit, it is not and never going to be.

 

Yeah, that's a shame and a problem, as in this case it's not about music anymore. Maybe I'm just not that much part of this community as the others, but I never do this. I do have a list of countries who tend to send songs I like, but if they send something rubbish (to my taste), then I don't give them points at all. Not even one.

In ESC, we all rage against the ex-Soviet countries for giving Russia high points. Would we be really happier anf would it be more fair if they confessed that "yeah, we wanted to give them only 6 points, but we gave 10 as it's good ol' Russia"?

I accept your point that Joe might not be as guilty as Lee (if the points were really changed without Joe's knowledge), but he IS guilty (AND everyone else is, who gives points to friends/countries rather than songs).

 

Lee doesn't like being told 'no' to so it's not exactly the smartest (albeit the right) way to deal with that. He would bring it up in 3 years and play this card against you~

 

Little secret: noone likes to be told 'no'. It sucks, but it's the part of life. I suppose we are not 8-year-olds, so maybe we could handle it. (There's a real problem if we can't.) And no, noone needs to be approved by Lee or anyone, this site is about music, not for finding a virtual bully. (And here, I'm not even writing against Lee - I really don't have a problem with him apart from this drama - but the idea that we should fear him (or anyone else) amuses me, it's just nonsense.)

 

 

All in all, vote tampering is really pathetic (noone will like you more for 2 more points in an online song contest) and the idea that 'everyone does this' pretty much disgusts me. We really need to be better than this. I'm naive enough to still believe that the love of music brought us to this forum, so maybe we could participate in a song contest in this spirit.

 

This isn't really what the thread is about but it is a separate issue which has been a problem in each of the last two contests (with Thelonia and Unovia respectively being announced through then removed from the final due to people quickly spotting errors in the spreadsheets). That's really just a problem with semi-final votes being confidential so we rely entirely on the host to not mess up the spreadsheets which is easier said than done. The only way around that would really be to breach the confidentiality and send all the individual PMs to someone else.

 

true, but yknow it's not really that confidential anyway if people like me insist on charting the songs they love - though we could all have BJSC ENTRY plastered over the top of the songs till the final is over, I guess - I do this until the announcement already. I realise some will already have charted some though and maybe got bored with them by voting day so it's not a science, or someone might not give points to a song with a sample they recognise, even if they like it.

 

Yes in this case though wouldnt have made any difference, so it's more of a whistle-blower conscience issue and a great warning that even giving your mate a few pity points could change the result dramatically. Just vote for those you love, in the order you love 'em, your mates can get over it, and if they can't let 'em sulk :lol:

I don't think we really need to change anything about the contest. Mistakes happen in spreadsheets etc and are usually spotted and rectified before the final or afterwards - this will always happen unless we get Bré to host every single one! The problem here was one individual who was in the unique position of being popular and also hosting and couldn't resist exploiting that combined scenario for his own gain and he's been banned for it - let's not glorify him or the situation any more than that because it really doesn't deserve it.

 

 

People form 'freindships' based upon similar tastes and personalities, it's always likely that we'll all be drawn towards the entries of those that we tend to agree with and get along with the most. I mean, I'm always conscious that I have rarely (or possibly never?!!) voted for Bellamia and every contest I listen in hope that this will be the one... but then I hear it and think 'NAH'! :D It's not a reflection of bias or anything, I like Joseph as a poster and can see what he does for the forum but out tastes are often just poles apart - I wouldn't ever to expect to be giving them points in the same frequency as some of the more indie/alt nations like Aeroche, PRoJ, NDNTN, Persephonia etc and nor would I expect them to be giving me points all the time for exactly the same reasoning.

 

I'm not suggesting changing anything, mistakes in spreadsheets are just a consequence of the format of the contest. They very rarely make any notable difference to anything (especially in the final where all the votes are published so any mistakes can be corrected by anyone (I'd say 'aka me' but Ethan actually pointed out a mistake I made in this last contest so :lol:)), just happens that it did in the last 2 contests because of the very tight qualification margins. But yes, as I said, this isn't what this thread is about anyway so I'll stop yapping about it ~

 

I don't think people voting for their friends swings the results in any significant way, the only impact it has IMO is that people might be more likely to *want* to like a song sent by their friends, even if this is subconscious (basically what Pavel said), but aside from a very small minority of cases (cough Johnkm) this will only ever amount to maybe giving a couple more points than if the songs were sent by someone else. People for the most part do vote for the songs they like the most. No song is going to come near winning or even qualifying if no one actually likes it.