What way is that? And why is Gary responsible for this? What should he have said? "No, I do not want to take lead vocals, please, Mark, be my guest!"?!!

It's this sort of comments that I don't understand.

 

I completely agree with you, Dylan. I don't want to see TT disband, but, sometimes, "fans" ' reactions make me wish this would happen for a short time, just so they can test their theories.

 

Glad to see we're not alone in our views, Jay :)

 

I don't have a problem with people having different opinions, but I like to see those opinions strongly supported by evidence.

When I see suppositions of the kind "oh, look, another vanity project for Gary!" or "Gary imposed his will on the others once again!", when there's absolutely nothing to support such statements, I get annoyed.

If anything, from LBDS, the only member of the band with a strong will appeared to be Mark - hence Gary telling him "you'll never be happy unless you've done it yourself".

People conveniently forget that Gary stepped aside on Progress and let everyone else take the lead. Gary's fans didn't throw a tantrum then, claiming that he was just an "earring" or someone else's backing singer, even though they had enough reasons to do it.

 

How would Oscar Wilde put it?

 

To lose one band member might be considered a misfortune. To lose two might seem like carelessness. But to then lose another two (who are reduced to a pair of earrings who sing drowned out backing vocals or play the triangle) would indicate at least a streak of limelight hoggery.

 

How would Oscar Wilde put it?

 

To lose one band member might be considered a misfortune. To lose two might seem like carelessness. But to then lose another two (who are reduced to a pair of earrings who sing drowned out backing vocals or play the triangle) would indicate at least a streak of limelight hoggery.

 

So, basically you're grasping at straws, cause you have absolutely no evidence to support your claimings and, instead, you're just finding any excuse to denigrate Gary.

Howard and Mark are still in the band and, when you have 3 members, it's kind of hard to pinpoint which one of them is to blame for the other 2 leaving, don't you think? (that is, admitting that the other 2 left because of someone else in the band, which, again, is just your UNFOUNDED ASSUMPTION).

But feel free to come with factual arguments for once instead of sarcastic personal opinions!

 

You do realize that your statements reduce Mark and Howard to some poor, whimpy, willess, retarded muppets who don't dare oppose their mighty master? If that would be the case and they're that stupid, then they deserve what they're getting, wouldn't you agree?

You do realize that your statements reduce Mark and Howard to some poor, whimpy, willess, retarded muppets who don't dare oppose their mighty master? If that would be the case and they're that stupid, then they deserve what they're getting, wouldn't you agree?

 

I actually agree with that bit! I still don't know what to make of that dance the two of them did while Gary sang Flaws. Don't know how Gary kept a straight face!

 

I actually agree with that bit! I still don't know what to make of that dance the two of them did while Gary sang Flaws. Don't know how Gary kept a straight face!

I'm not a big fan of Mark and Howard's, individually, but I was the first one to point that out during the tour. From what I understand, it was their choice to dance instead of singing, like they should have, so...when they put themselves in that position, I don't get their fans' indignation towards Gary.

So, basically you're grasping at straws, cause you have absolutely no evidence to support your claimings and, instead, you're just finding any excuse to denigrate Gary.

Howard and Mark are still in the band and, when you have 3 members, it's kind of hard to pinpoint which one of them is to blame for the other 2 leaving, don't you think? (that is, admitting that the other 2 left because of someone else in the band, which, again, is just your UNFOUNDED ASSUMPTION).

But feel free to come with factual arguments for once instead of sarcastic personal opinions!

 

You do realize that your statements reduce Mark and Howard to some poor, whimpy, willess, retarded muppets who don't dare oppose their mighty master? If that would be the case and they're that stupid, then they deserve what they're getting, wouldn't you agree?

 

The idea that I am denigrating Gary Barlow is ridiculous. I am ONLY a TT fan because of the songwriting and vocal talent of GB. However, I expect TT to be TT, not just GB.

I think Cry is good, very catchy, but as people already has pointed out it's more like Sigma featuring Gary Barlow than Sigma feat.TT. Re lead vocals, I don't think that most of the people who are complaing are suggesting that Mark or Howard should sing lead on this one, they just would have liked to be able to at least hear them, as would I. I've seen many comments about Cry on twitter saying that they love the song but would have liked to hear more of Howard and Mark.I also think that the fact that on III Gary had most leads some fans were extra put off with the lack of Howard and Mark on Cry.

When Jason left and now when they are only 3 left in TT I think some people, not GB fans though, had hoped for more evenly shared lead vocals. That did not happen so some fans were quite disappointed and even more so when they heard Cry. As most TT fans, and also other people, prefer Gary's voice to Mark's or Howard's voices I predict that this is the way it's gonna be becasue commercially that's the right way to go. Are Mark and Howard happy with that? Who knows, I couldn't say.

And let me just say GB fans can also throw a real tantrum! :D It happened when Circus was about to be released. Before the release we could listen to 30-second snippets of the songs and let's just say that some GB fans were not happy bunnies. They had only heard 30 seconds of the songs but oh no they would not buy this album because of too few Gary leads.

 

I sometimes get the feeling here that it's perfectly fine to diminish Howard and Mark and still call yourself a TT fan, but if you do the same towards Gary you can't be a real TT fan.

 

I wonder how much say TT have regarding promotion of Cry. If I understand things correctly this is a Sigma release as it says Sigma feat.TT and I guess that the song is released on Sigma's label. I wonder how it works in situations like these?

 

Have to say that I really like Justin Timberlake's new song. It's a great summer tune.

 

Very well said, Wanting to hear all three TT members is not to be anti-GB or anti-TT, as some may imply.

 

The idea that I am denigrating Gary Barlow is ridiculous. I am ONLY a TT fan because of the songwriting and vocal talent of GB. However, I expect TT to be TT, not just GB.

 

So, when you were saying "No, I don't think it was behind their backs. It was right in front of them. It would be like: "Hey Mark and Donald, you just stand there while Gary sings the song and takes the limelight again. Join in the backing vocals if you like, but we will turn down your amps anyway!" , you were actually paying a compliment to Gary?

'Cry' starts at #10 in the mids. It's currently the third highest selling song download-wise. Drake is midweek #1, but has actually sold less downloads that Sigma/TT so far this week #powerofstreaming

Silly really, streaming's prominence really needs to be re-balanced

Number 10 is a wonderful start but sadly streaming is really going to hamper their position this week. I would hope streaming will start picking up for them very soon, its need to if Cry has chance of becoming a hit.

I hope the track can go top ten as I believe that is what is good for an act of their time in this day and age in singles chart. Sigma are really getting a hammering which is a shame. What is the difference between Paloma Faith/Rita Ora and Take That?

Yeah, I don't really understand why Sigma are getting lambasted for this collab either.

 

I know they have underground drum & bass roots but they've never claimed to be anything other than a commercial dance act over the past couple of years - collaborations with Ella Henderson, Labrinth, Rita Ora, Paloma Faith etc...surely anybody still following them by this point has got used to them working with major chart acts by now, of which Take That are the latest. It's perhaps an unorthodox pairing but all credit to both acts for not sticking to the obvious.

So, when you were saying "No, I don't think it was behind their backs. It was right in front of them. It would be like: "Hey Mark and Donald, you just stand there while Gary sings the song and takes the limelight again. Join in the backing vocals if you like, but we will turn down your amps anyway!" , you were actually paying a compliment to Gary?

 

No, I wasn't paying GB a compliment. I don't give GB any leeway in how he conducts himself simply because I think he is one of the best ever songwriters and a very good vocalist. I am not an obsessive fan who thinks he is beyond criticism..

 

Yeah, I don't really understand why Sigma are getting lambasted for this collab either.

 

I know they have underground drum & bass roots but they've never claimed to be anything other than a commercial dance act over the past couple of years - collaborations with Ella Henderson, Labrinth, Rita Ora, Paloma Faith etc...surely anybody still following them by this point has got used to them working with major chart acts by now, of which Take That are the latest. It's perhaps an unorthodox pairing but all credit to both acts for not sticking to the obvious.

 

I could not agree more Delta, but some people just enjoy complaining for the sake of it. If Take That had teamed up with any act, there would be those who would moan about it.

I hope the track can go top ten as I believe that is what is good for an act of their time in this day and age in singles chart. Sigma are really getting a hammering which is a shame. What is the difference between Paloma Faith/Rita Ora and Take That?

 

Take That are still seen by many as uncool - a manufactured band or a gay band, and so it might be a way of looking cool or non-gay to criticize TT/Sigma. But at least things have improved from the early TT days when the core fanbase consisted of teenage girls and gay guys. Not that there is anything wrong in that, but songs like Back for Good, Patience and Rule the World really expanded the audience, and those teenage girls are now in their thirties. Robbie Williams, during the peak of his solo career, appealed to all generations, and that helped. However, that broad span of Take That audience has been shrinking in more recent years, largely due to the choice of music.

Edited May 23, 20169 yr by Bond Bug

No, I wasn't paying GB a compliment. I don't give GB any leeway in how he conducts himself simply because I think he is one of the best ever songwriters and a very good vocalist. I am not an obsessive fan who thinks he is beyond criticism..

 

Well, if that criticism were founded....

Agree with gooddelta.

 

You'd think, by the reaction of Sigma's fans, that the guys used to do opera and they now suddenly sold their soul to the devil by collaborating with Take That.

Dance music is as commercial as music can get. If anything, their collaboration with TT is a step up from their collab with Rita Ora. Cry actually has substance and is not just another catchy dance track.

 

Very happy to see the track doing so well on the sales chart. Now, if only streaming would pick up...

Since yesterday, a lot of radio stations have started playing Cry, including Capital and Kiss Fm, which, I think, is a major achievement for the boys.

Edited May 23, 20169 yr by milly

Tough day at work so don't really want to get into a debate going over new ground, so this is all I will say in response to the posts I've just read (very quickly I might add):

 

1) Howard said he wanted to do a contemporary dance to Flaws - which I saw live and found quite poignant

2) Rob left first time because he wanted to be a solo artist in all honesty and he left the second time for the same reason (was never intended to be a permanent move)

3) Jay left - didn't want to be in the music business and was reluctant to return in 2005. No indication it was due to Gary or any other member

4) There is no evidence to suggest that Gary is 'hogging the limelight' or dominating the other members. I'll reiterate again what I've already posted: both Mark and Howard now have more leads on the albums that they previously did in the 90's and greater input in song writing

5) Would Mark or Howard give a better vocal performance on Cry than Gary - I'm saying no

6) Mark and Howard are integral members of the band in terms of song writing, show production, performance skills and harmonies

7) If anyone is unhappy with the production of Cry - I'm assuming Sigma produced it, fans should vent at them and the band could have said if they were concerned with the overall sound

8) Many 'fans' appear to have little respect towards certain band members - criticism is one thing, some comments have gone beyond that

 

End of rant :)

Edited May 23, 20169 yr by dylan62

Tough day at work so don't really want to get into a debate going over new ground, so this is all I will say in response to the posts I've just read (very quickly I might add):

 

1) Howard said he wanted to do a contemporary dance to Flaws - which I saw live and found quite poignant

2) Rob left first time because he wanted to be a solo artist in all honesty and he left the second time for the same reason (was never intended to be a permanent move)

3) Jay left - didn't want to be in the music business and was reluctant to return in 2005. No indication it was due to Gary or any other member

4) There is no evidence to suggest that Gary is 'hogging the limelight' or dominating the other members. I'll reiterate again what I've already posted: both Mark and Howard now have more leads on the albums that they previously did in the 90's and greater input in song writing

5) Would Mark or Howard give a better vocal performance on Cry than Gary - I'm saying no

6) Mark and Howard are integral members of the band in terms of song writing, show production, performance skills and harmonies

7) If anyone is unhappy with the production of Cry - I'm assuming Sigma produced it, fans should vent at them and the band could have said if they were concerned with the overall sound

8) Many 'fans' appear to have little respect towards certain band members - criticism is one thing, some comments have gone beyond that

 

End of rant :)

 

2/ Robbie Williams has said he was asked to leave Take That. That was also suggested in the documentary.

4/ Maybe I heard a different song to you.:P

5/ I don't think that is the issue.

6/ AKA demotion!:P

7/ I doubt Gary is too timid to insist his bandmates' backing vocals aren't drowned out.

8/ I agree. Personal insults and unsubstantiated allegations are not acceptable.

 

Sorry Bond Bug I'm somewhat confused?

 

Rob said he was going to leave -so they said go he could go immediately - they didn't try to stop him but by that time Rob had already disengaged from the band

Gary has sung lead vocals on many other songs - why all the criticism for this one?

Yes , who gives the best vocal is relevant. Mark was the right fit for Shine, Howard for NF. It's essential the right person sings the right song

Sorry, don't understand your comment about demotion?

Sorry, don't understand your comment regarding Gary being too timid? Is that sarcasm ? I'm sure Mark and Howard are more than capable of having views and opinions

 

I'm not going to post any further comments on this topic. I think there's now a slightly unpleasant element to it - so I'm bowing out as views are too divergent and I can't see any consensus or agreement being reached other than continued personal comments being directed at band members.