You can throw a number of things at Gary but he has a great dry sense of humour. I do remember the Tulisa jibe on X Factor and I did cringe. However, Gary apologised live on TV almost immediately. I don't think he was the best fit for that show because he's not a natural conversationalist or TV personality and was too guarded for the role. He has a new TV show coming out in the next year so I guess his detractors will be out in force once again.

 

I often read the DS site but the music forum is quite one sided with few people on board in terms of MOR type acts so TT aren't on the radar that much. I do like their politics thread and their broadcasting one but they don't have many posting on the music site so I tend to dip in and out of it. There is a thread for Cry but only a few people have posted - with a variety of opinions on it.

 

I still find the Tulisa insult hilarious after all this time :D It did show Gary's character, but in a good light, imo. If that was the worse he could come up with when provoked and brought to the edge, then he's a teddy bear. His reaction was quite innocent and reminded me of that of a child. "You are a terrible mentor, you are ruining it for him, you should take the blame!", "You have fag ash breath!" - that was epic :D

 

I used to read the DS XF thread when Gary was on the show and people's opinions were similar to those on Popjustice. But I guess some of the posters are the same.

 

I hope the video for Cry gets released this week and the boys get some promotional slots. Is there any tv show they could perform on at this time of the year?

I can't think of any shows off the top of my head aside from GN chat show. I don't think BGT has live acts on until later in the series but I may be wrong because I don't actually watch it.

 

It's a shame they haven't been able to secure a show along the lines of An Audience With which showed all their personalities and the genuine friendship between them. I'd like to think they're in the process of arranging a show of this kind to publicise the new album at the end of the year. They need TV exposure of that kind to cement them firmly back in the publics' consciousness and to show case their new songs which haven't received the airing they deserve.

 

As for 'Fag Ash Breath' - I recall the look of horror on Gary's face when he realised what had come out of his mouth :)

I bet his mum told him off afterwards, she seems to be a stickler for good manners.

 

Been on the DS music thread - think Kath's been moon lighting over there under the guise of Sheila Bilge :)

 

In terms of Cry the more I listen to it the more I hear Howard and to a lesser extent Mark. Their vocals are most obvious in the second half of the song. The gospel choir seems to take precedence in the first 40- 50 seconds of the song. From a live perspective I think they'll come into their own - we may be surprised and the balance may be better than the recorded version.

I think Cry is good, very catchy, but as people already has pointed out it's more like Sigma featuring Gary Barlow than Sigma feat.TT. Re lead vocals, I don't think that most of the people who are complaing are suggesting that Mark or Howard should sing lead on this one, they just would have liked to be able to at least hear them, as would I. I've seen many comments about Cry on twitter saying that they love the song but would have liked to hear more of Howard and Mark.I also think that the fact that on III Gary had most leads some fans were extra put off with the lack of Howard and Mark on Cry.

 

When Jason left and now when they are only 3 left in TT I think some people, not GB fans though, had hoped for more evenly shared lead vocals. That did not happen so some fans were quite disappointed and even more so when they heard Cry. As most TT fans, and also other people, prefer Gary's voice to Mark's or Howard's voices I predict that this is the way it's gonna be becasue commercially that's the right way to go. Are Mark and Howard happy with that? Who knows, I couldn't say.

 

And let me just say GB fans can also throw a real tantrum! :D It happened when Circus was about to be released. Before the release we could listen to 30-second snippets of the songs and let's just say that some GB fans were not happy bunnies. They had only heard 30 seconds of the songs but oh no they would not buy this album because of too few Gary leads.

 

I sometimes get the feeling here that it's perfectly fine to diminish Howard and Mark and still call yourself a TT fan, but if you do the same towards Gary you can't be a real TT fan.

 

I wonder how much say TT have regarding promotion of Cry. If I understand things correctly this is a Sigma release as it says Sigma feat.TT and I guess that the song is released on Sigma's label. I wonder how it works in situations like these?

 

Have to say that I really like Justin Timberlake's new song. It's a great summer tune.

 

 

Music-wise, though, nobody has diminished Mark and Howard here, have they? Dylan has gone over board to defend them when their own fans were calling them earrings and lettuce and tomatoes.

 

I still don't understand towards whom your insatisfaction is aimed. Is it Gary or Sigma or the label? Cause the general tone of this discussion points towards the fact you're all blaming Gary because Mark and Howard are not more prominent on Cry.

And, if you all believe Mark and Howard are not happy with the situation, why do you think they put up with it?

 

PS: You're right, Dylan about the DS thread :)

Edited May 22, 20169 yr by milly

well the answer could be called money. If yo like Gary or not he has a career aside of TT. Howard and Mark can live with what they have earned in the past. But humans are greedy.

Music-wise, though, nobody has diminished Mark and Howard here, have they? Dylan has gone over board to defend them when their own fans were calling them earrings and lettuce and tomatoes.

 

I still don't understand towards whom your insatisfaction is aimed. Is it Gary or Sigma or the label? Cause the general tone of this discussion points towards the fact you're all blaming Gary because Mark and Howard are not more prominent on Cry.

And, if you all believe Mark and Howard are not happy with the situation, why do you think they put up with it?

 

PS: You're right, Dylan about the DS thread :)

 

Yes, music-wise too. And yes, Dylan has (defended them, that is).

 

I don't understand exactly your point about my dissatisfaction, what part in my post you are referring to, so can't really respond to that. I can't see anything in my post suggesting that I am blaming Gary or anyone else for that matter. Was it my question about how the promotion works? In that case you must have totally misunderstood my question.

Edited May 22, 20169 yr by Cat62

I wasn't referring necessarily to you, Cat, when I said I get the feeling people are blaming Gary for Mark and Howard's absence from Cry and other tracks.

But I did see comments saying that Cry is yet another "vanity project" for Gary and people did say, on this forum, that "this is no way to treat your bandmates". Hence, my conclusion that some fans are indeed blaming Gary.

 

As for the promotion, I have the same questions as you. Since Sigma and TT are on different labels, it would be interesting to know who's in charge of promoting the single. The logical answer would be Sigma's label, cause I imagine Cry will feature on their album.

But I guess the promotion is also a problem for the bands' management. If TT's management were to secure a promotional slot on tv, I doubt Sigma would refuse to appear, cause they seem quite eager to get that no 1.

You all know where I stand in terms of whom I consider to be the best vocalist. That aside I can understand fans frustration when their favourite doesn't get a fair bite of the cherry so to speak. My problem with much of the debate going on is that it sometimes veers towards rather snide and uncomfortable personal remarks about band members, often Gary. ( Although I hold my hands up and admit I've said some less than favourable things about Rob )

 

Whatever I think of their individual vocal abilities and I have levelled criticism at individual members, although not hopefully in a nasty way, I firmly believe they are in it for the love of what they do. I'm sure that 'greed' does rear its ugly head ( as I'm always astonished by wealthy people's desire to accumulate even more money) but not for one instance do I believe that's the overriding factor with TT. I respect them and I find it difficult to read comments which suggest that Mark and Howard lack dignity. Have fans not seen the friendship, laughter and genuine warmth between them all which shines through in live shows? Cat62 - I think that Howard is probably happy with the status quo, Mark I'm not so sure. But remember that Mark has had far greater vocal input this time around than he ever did in the 90's, something his supporters haven't acknowledged. I think fans are within their rights to critique Gary's vocals but a lot of the comments have been personal and that's where the problems arise.

 

As for Cry, whilst not immediately apparent, you can hear Mark and Howard's vocals. If 'fans' have such antipathy towards Gary as the lead vocalist I genuinely question their commitment as true TT fans. I say that based on the fact that Gary has always been the primary vocalist/song writer and if they don't like him or his voice then I cannot understand why they would love the bands music or pay good money to see them live. The role of the lead singer is pivotal. It's like Beatles fans saying they don't like Lennon/Macca but love Ringo or Stones fans saying they hate Jagger's voice and performance skills but still buy their music and go to their concerts.

I'm amazed the song is still #4 on UK iTunes. The reality is this won't be the case when the 7 days are up. Maybe they are waiting till the midweeks then releasing a video? Possible that they are using first week as word of mouth then second music video and gradually building the interest up that way.

I hope the song charts in some major European countries also.

 

So refresher is the plan still an album this year and then the greatest hits/best of next year? An updated greatest hits/best of would sell really well in the UK I believe.

Edited May 22, 20169 yr by nirvanamusic

Shame it's not top 200 on Spotify. I predict it'll be about #25 in the official chart this week.

Have to say I'm shocked the single isn't doing better. I genuinely think it's a quality record and deserving of a Top 5 position. I've asked questions before about sales ( sorry for my ignorance) but are they based on ITunes, Amazon, Google and streaming? Sigma are doing fine on ITunes so does this mean their sales are low on the other sites, hence the possible low chart position?

 

Strange to think not so long ago TT were more often than not a shoe in for No1!! I can't believe artists like Drake are still holding onto such high positions while new releases are struggling to make a mark on the charts. The video in my view should have been ready to go at the same time as the singles release, even though it's impact on sales would probably have been minimal.

Yes, the chart position is determined by sales + streaming (100 streams=1 sale; only 10 streams/day/person are taken into account). Sales include iTunes, Amazon, HMV and others sources, but mainly iTunes, in the case of singles.

Apparently, TT are doing fine on the iTunes sales front (although the song's popularity is decreasing and it will soon fall on the 5th place, if it doesn't pick up), the problem lies with streaming. TT fans are not exactly the type to stream singles or albums and Sigma fans would rather let the single flop than buy or stream anything done by TT. But I think it's a bit exaggerated to think that, should Cry remain in top 5 on iTunes till Thursday, it wouldn't chart in top 20 - that would mean that streaming counts more than actual sales.

 

I think, at this point, it's safe to say that, if Cry does chart decently, it will be mostly down to TT fans. Sigma fans have made their opinion more than clear about this collab and its output.

 

However, I don't believe the single is doing anywhere near bad. Let's not forget that, usually, all of TT's singles have benefitted from an XF performance, seen by millions of viewers, and a few weeks of airplay + a video. This time around, all they had was the news of a new single and a few radio plays. Justin Timberlake performed his single on Eurovision and he still hasn't managed to top the charts - although, in my opinion, his song is better than Drake's. Considering all this, no 4 on iTunes and 4-5 on Amazon is incredible. There are artists whose singles get daily R1 and R2 plays and still don't manage to break top 10 on iTunes.

 

We have to wait and see if R1 and R2 playlist Cry next week. If the song doesn't pick up once it's playlisted, then we can start worrying.

Thanks, I've just been discussing it with my son - who often takes pity on me when it comes to my understanding of the music 'download' system. Sigma/D&B fans have been quite vocal about the single and are clearly unhappy about the collaboration.

 

I've listened to some of their other stuff and I quite like it. Whether it's D&B or Jungle ? I don't know. I simply listen to music and either like it or not. I've never been into over categorising music, but there appears to be a vocal minority who most certainly do. I don't know whether the TT lads feel some sense of responsibility towards Sigma but both Howard and Mark have used their twitter accounts to publicise the record. I hope it does well for Sigma if any thing. They seem to have taken a hammering for teaming up with TT which is a shame.

 

I hope it's on the Hyde Park set list and look forward to hearing it at the BW.

I think streaming is in danger of taking precedence over sales...if I had my way streaming would be removed. The chart should always be based on sales

I think streaming is in danger of taking precedence over sales...if I had my way streaming would be removed. The chart should always be based on sales

Streaming will become the main avenue for music consumption in the near future since sales has and will continue to decrease, kinda like how music charts incorporated digital downloads after it became popular a decade ago. I think the chart is only trying to get with the time (or trying to increase sales figure using streams :lol: )

 

Although I think the OCC can tweak its streaming rules a bit, because it is a bit strange when the top selling song this week (JT's Can't Stop The Feeling) is blocked from #1 due to streaming (Drake's One Dance)

Edited May 22, 20169 yr by iamstrong

But I think it's a bit exaggerated to think that, should Cry remain in top 5 on iTunes till Thursday, it wouldn't chart in top 20 - that would mean that streaming counts more than actual sales.

Streaming does count for more these days. In fact, in the Top 200 official chart, dated 13th May, only 18 songs out of those 200 had a higher percentage of actual download sales, than streaming units.

 

 

One of these 18 songs was Calvin/Rihanna's single, which was at #2.

[52% actual sales {57,106 downloads} vs. 48% streaming {52,836 streaming units} = 109,942 overall]

 

Drake was at #1 in this week, and despite selling considerably less downloads, he eclipsed them in terms of streaming, and that made all the difference.

[32% actual sales {39,837 downloads} vs. 68% streaming {83,682 streaming units} = 123,519 overall]

 

In the above example, Calvin/Rihanna's streaming was actually strong, enough to be #2 in the Audio Streams chart. But their strong sales & very decent streaming still wasn't enough to overtake Drake overall.

 

~

 

Calvin/Rihanna are obviously huge/current names, so their collaboration was major news - big enough to generate immediate impact on streaming. However for most artists, this doesn't happen. It's common for new singles to start off rather slowly on streaming, and take weeks to build up.

 

 

Take Reggie 'N' Bollie's 'New Girl', for example. In the latest official chart (20th May), they entered at #26. In the "sales only" chart they were #8. They weren't Top 100 on in the "Audio streaming" chart. So that's how much impact a lack of streaming had on their chart fortunes, taking them down from the Top 10, to low Top 30.

 

In week 2, they're still performing well on downloads. They're at #9 on iTunes currently. However, yesterday they were only #143 on Spotify. That's very disproportionate and will cost them a Top 10 placing again.

 

~

 

So when it comes to Sigma/Take That - being as high as #4 on iTunes is all well and good, but the song wasn't even Top 200 on Spotify yesterday. That could easily cost them a Top 20 placing this week, when you consider that most of the official Top 20 are songs with very strong contributions from streaming. 'Cry' will most likely be Top 10 on sales only, but the lack of streaming will greatly impact on their official chart placing. It's not an exaggeration, it's just typical of the way the chart works now.

Well, I'm with Jay: I hate the impact streaming has on charts. And I hate whomever invented streaming :angry:

I agree that streaming should be included in some way, in order to keep up with times, but the ratio is completely disproportionate. Streaming a song does not show the same interest and commitment as an actual sale. You can stream something out of curiosity or even boredom, but, when you pay for something, it's because you want to have that thing and you made a decision in that sense.

 

I hope Cry manages to stay in the sales chart long enough for it to build some decent streaming. It's such and addictive and infectious song it deserves to chart more than decently.

 

You frame it like he went behind their back to record the lead vocal? I think you're being disengenious

 

No, I don't think it was behind their backs. It was right in front of them. It would be like: "Hey Mark and Donald, you just stand there while Gary sings the song and takes the limelight again. Join in the backing vocals if you like, but we will turn down your amps anyway!"

 

Well Bond Bug it must be lovely living in such a cynical bubble ? I've already posted my view that they're still together because they love what they do.

 

'what a way to treat your bandmates.' Interested to know your insight into the workings of the band. Does Gary locked them up in a darkened dungeon only to release them to sing backing vocals? I'd go as far as to say that he probably gives them pocket money rather than an equitable share of the profits, or has them working on zero hour contracts phoning them up when there's a quick TV or radio appearance - probably for the minimum wage.

 

Seriously I give up - I surrender. GB is the son of Satan and operates at the behest of dark forces intend on subjugating two middle aged men for his own evil ends. :)

 

If you were at a restaurant expecting a three-course meal, but only the soup was ever brought to your table, would you think that was okay?