Boom!

 

Reece Mogg et all would have us back in workhouses and the plutocrats would bring back modern day slavery conditions without these directives.

 

Oh FFS - just quit this 18th C Tory comparison nonsense - they could get away with it back then because only landowners had the vote. Now *everyone* does, and the sort of exploitation you cite simply couldn't happen nowadays!

Edited May 7, 20187 yr by vidcapper

How did we get from EU Directives to 'slavery'? :huh:

 

Also, who on earth would allow what *might* happen to your successors in a job you quit, to tailor your own career path?

A point of order - I never claimed it was OK for companies to mistreat their workers. And since the WTD will be incorporated into English law when we Leave, using it to attack my position is simply a red herring.

But the government are in the process of granting themselves the power to repeal laws such as the WTD at the stroke of a ministerial pen. But apparently its the EU that is undemocratic.

Oh FFS - just quit this 18th C Tory comparison nonsense - they could get away with it back then because only landowners had the vote. Now *everyone* does, and the sort of exploitation you cite simply couldn't happen nowadays!

 

It absolutely could with the right media conditioning and brainwashing and bashing of the poor. Capitalism is feudalism rebranded. You don't seem to understand this. The Mogg family have owned us for generations.

You do realise that if you don't like your working conditions, you can look for another job with more favourable ones? Despite what Queef would have us believe, we are no longer serfs bound to one master! :rolleyes:

 

So what is your job and your skills that allow you to find another job anywhere anytime you like? I assume you have a job as you are far too young to retire. I'm guessing one with unusual hours given your posting habits?

 

If a government passes a law allowing unfavourable conditions then all employers would adopt it in order to maximise profits. people just want to pay cheaper prices for everything and not think of the consequences for others. This is reality. Your trust in the Tories not to introduce this sort of legislation is far less than mine, whereas you don't have to venture an opinion on EU supportive legislation because it's a fact. Obviously one you dont like, but then you fail to point out negative things consistently and proudly as if facts are an inconvenience.

 

 

But the government are in the process of granting themselves the power to repeal laws such as the WTD at the stroke of a ministerial pen. But apparently its the EU that is undemocratic.

 

drum roll, cymbal crash, followed by silence.

 

A bit like demanding British Courts hold sway, not the EU, then calling them traitors when they uphold Parliamentary democracy against an undemocratic government.

 

Or MP's representing the views of their consitituents being called traitors.

 

Or anyone pointing out the economic dangers ahead being called fearmongers and liars by professional liars dealing in fantasy.

 

We could go on for years of course, because the behaviour of Brexiteers has been anything but democratic and all about bullying and intimidation and lies.

drum roll, cymbal crash, followed by silence.

 

A bit like demanding British Courts hold sway, not the EU, then calling them traitors when they uphold Parliamentary democracy against an undemocratic government.

 

Or MP's representing the views of their consitituents being called traitors.

 

Or anyone pointing out the economic dangers ahead being called fearmongers and liars by professional liars dealing in fantasy.

 

We could go on for years of course, because the behaviour of Brexiteers has been anything but democratic and all about bullying and intimidation and lies.

 

PREACH!!

But the government are in the process of granting themselves the power to repeal laws such as the WTD at the stroke of a ministerial pen. But apparently its the EU that is undemocratic.

 

There is far far too much EU legislation to be incorporated into British law line-by-line, so the above is pretty much the only practical way to do it. All that is needed is a clause that this power will expire once the Brexit process is complete.l

 

 

It absolutely could with the right media conditioning and brainwashing and bashing of the poor. Capitalism is feudalism rebranded. You don't seem to understand this. The Mogg family have owned us for generations.

 

There are schizophrenics far less paranoid than you!

 

I assume you have a job as you are far too young to retire. I'm guessing one with unusual hours given your posting habits?

 

Self-employment helps considerably with that. ;)

 

If a government passes a law allowing unfavourable conditions then all employers would adopt it in order to maximise profits. people just want to pay cheaper prices for everything and not think of the consequences for others. This is reality. Your trust in the Tories not to introduce this sort of legislation is far less than mine, whereas you don't have to venture an opinion on EU supportive legislation because it's a fact. Obviously one you dont like, but then you fail to point out negative things consistently and proudly as if facts are an inconvenience.

 

I'm often thought of as spinning wild fantasies about what the EU might become - but I don't see how that is different from equally wild speculation about what the Tories *might* do?

 

They don't even have a HoC majority for a start!

Edited May 8, 20187 yr by vidcapper

Self-employment helps considerably with that. ;)

I'm often thought of as spinning wild fantasies about what the EU might become - but I don't see how that is different from equally wild speculation about what the Tories *might* do?

 

They don't even have a HoC majority for a start!

 

You just contradicted yourself: saying the Tories need to have the power to choose what parts of EU legislation they CHOOSE to remove undemocratically, then saying that this is wild speculation.

 

You either believe in democracy or you don't. Clearly you don't if it suits your agenda, regardless of the potential consequences on any number of vital issues because you TRUST Tories to do the right thing.....

 

Sigh......

 

Given how many times they have tried to ignore British democracy since the referendum I wouldnt trust them to successfully and constitutionally do anything. And you keep ignoring all the evidence!!!! We mention it, you ignore it or make fatuous excuses. Because it suits your agenda. Once you lose democracy you no longer have democracy...

You just contradicted yourself: saying the Tories need to have the power to choose what parts of EU legislation they CHOOSE to remove undemocratically, then saying that this is wild speculation.

 

You either believe in democracy or you don't. Clearly you don't if it suits your agenda, regardless of the potential consequences on any number of vital issues because you TRUST Tories to do the right thing.....

 

Sigh......

 

Given how many times they have tried to ignore British democracy since the referendum I wouldnt trust them to successfully and constitutionally do anything. And you keep ignoring all the evidence!!!! We mention it, you ignore it or make fatuous excuses. Because it suits your agenda. Once you lose democracy you no longer have democracy...

 

Perhaps you could clarify what you think 'my agenda' is, because I can't work it out from your comments...

Perhaps you could clarify what you think 'my agenda' is, because I can't work it out from your comments...

 

it's an anti-establishment agenda when you dont agree with it, and a pro-establishment right-wing one when you do. Mixed. On the one hand happy for the chaos and mass murder than gun-ownership brings, and resentful of the democratic order of an EU political system, but happy to hand over control totally to a bunch of right-wing rich tosspots to make decisions on our behalf. Happy to support foreign billionaires controlling our media and politics, but not if a liberal foreign politician makes an off-the-comment observation. So many contradictions, you are more of an anarchist than a Clash-supporting card-carrying far-left supporter, cos you don't mind chaos - except you immediately blame those doing it having made sure you are against the principle of preventing the problems from occurring by waffling on about freedom of choice as a means of allowing chaos.

 

Based entirely on my observations of your statements of course. I can't comment on things yiou dont comment on cos I dont yet have telepathy (but fingers-crossed, one day maybe....)

There is far far too much EU legislation to be incorporated into British law line-by-line, so the above is pretty much the only practical way to do it. All that is needed is a clause that this power will expire once the Brexit process is complete.l

You've missed the point AGAIN. I was referring to the power to REPEAL legislation by ministerial fiat, not introducing legislation. My words could hardly have been clearer. The blanket incorporation of EU law into UK law makes sense - insofar as anything makes sense in all this nonsense. What I object to - and is totally undemocratic - is allowing ministers to repeal legislation at will without any discussion, let alone annoying as vulgar as a vote, in parliament.

 

As for the idea of allowing all EU legislation to lapse, do you really wan a country with no consumer protection, no environmental regulations, no employee protection, no food safety standards? Either that or you have a very touching faith in the ability of ministers and civil servants to ensure sufficient new legislation is enacted in the transition period.

Oh FFS - just quit this 18th C Tory comparison nonsense - they could get away with it back then because only landowners had the vote. Now *everyone* does, and the sort of exploitation you cite simply couldn't happen nowadays!

How does having the right to vote protect us from structural oppression? The ideas of the ruling class are ingrained in us all. These ideas are parroted by people who are badly affected by them, because they have become the accepted conversation. We understand more about the elite, than we do about our neighbour who struggles to feed her family, even though she works full time.

 

The multinational she works for on minimum wage gets a larger corporate hand out than it pays in tax, and makes more profit every year, yet the majority of it's workforce get in work benefits, that is the workhouse of today.

it's an anti-establishment agenda when you dont agree with it, and a pro-establishment right-wing one when you do. Mixed.

On the one hand happy for the chaos and mass murder than gun-ownership brings

, and resentful of the democratic order of an EU political system,

but happy to hand over control totally to a bunch of right-wing rich tosspots to make decisions on our behalf.

Happy to support foreign billionaires controlling our media and politics,

but not if a liberal foreign politician makes an off-the-comment observation.

 

So many contradictions, you are more of an anarchist than a Clash-supporting card-carrying far-left supporter, cos you don't mind chaos - except you immediately blame those doing it having made sure you are against the principle of preventing the problems from occurring by waffling on about freedom of choice as a means of allowing chaos.

 

Based entirely on my observations of your statements of course. I can't comment on things yiou dont comment on cos I dont yet have telepathy (but fingers-crossed, one day maybe....)

 

1. Close

2. Absolutely not!

3. Correct

4. Absolutely not.

5. absolutely not.

6. For example?

 

2 out of 5, with one pending - not too good an assessment... :rolleyes:

You've missed the point AGAIN. I was referring to the power to REPEAL legislation by ministerial fiat, not introducing legislation. My words could hardly have been clearer. The blanket incorporation of EU law into UK law makes sense - insofar as anything makes sense in all this nonsense. What I object to - and is totally undemocratic - is allowing ministers to repeal legislation at will without any discussion, let alone annoying as vulgar as a vote, in parliament.

 

I see nothing to indicate they are trying to give themselves that power over *all* legislation - just ex-EU stuff? :unsure:

 

As for the idea of allowing all EU legislation to lapse, do you really wan a country with no consumer protection, no environmental regulations, no employee protection, no food safety standards?

 

I have never advocated this.

I see nothing to indicate they are trying to give themselves that power over *all* legislation - just ex-EU stuff? :unsure:

I have never advocated this.

What's the difference? They are still giving themselves the power to repeal a huge amount of legislation without involving parliament.

 

You said that all EU legislation should lapse at the end of the transition period. A lot of that legislation covers the areas I mentioned. That means either that we are left with no legislation on such matters or parliament has to pass laws that will replace EU laws on the given date. I don't know about you, but I would estimate the chances of the government failing - by accident or design - to cover all areas adequately somewhere in excess of 99%.

What's the difference? They are still giving themselves the power to repeal a huge amount of legislation without involving parliament.

 

You said that all EU legislation should lapse at the end of the transition period.

 

No I did *not*!

 

I said the power to cut/paste/amend laws should lapse at the end of that period - which is a very different thing!

No I did *not*!

 

I said the power to cut/paste/amend laws should lapse at the end of that period - which is a very different thing!

 

Sorry, I misunderstood.

 

However, that power shouldn't exist at all. If there are so many laws whose repeal is so urgent that parliament has to be bypassed, why could Leave campaigners not provide a single example of such a law in the referendum campaign? And how come they still can't provide any examples now?

How does having the right to vote protect us from structural oppression? The ideas of the ruling class are ingrained in us all. These ideas are parroted by people who are badly affected by them, because they have become the accepted conversation. We understand more about the elite, than we do about our neighbour who struggles to feed her family, even though she works full time.

 

The multinational she works for on minimum wage gets a larger corporate hand out than it pays in tax, and makes more profit every year, yet the majority of it's workforce get in work benefits, that is the workhouse of today.

 

Bravo!

 

Like amazon: modern day workhouse serving the Tory monied elite.

 

You should post more often!

Bravo!

 

Like amazon: modern day workhouse serving the Tory monied elite.

 

You should post more often!

 

Because I don't already have enough opponents here? :rolleyes: