Yes.

 

The large majority, yes.

 

Why is Brexit even happening?

 

The over 50s voted for it. The under 50s did not.

 

1. Because for the first time in 40 years we were actually asked for our opinion, rather than have further integration presented as a fait accompli?

 

2. That's somewhat of a generalization.

 

By the time it is implemented, it will be for people who are no longer with us?

 

Unless you know something we don't, most of the over-50's who voted for it will still be around in a year's time! :rolleyes:

 

Are you seriously suggesting that over-50's should have simply shut up & accepted our EU membership uncomplainingly, regardless of what we thought of it?

 

As for 'having to live with a Brexit decision the under 50's didn't want', did it ever occur to you that that's precisely the situation we Eurosceptics have had to put up with since 1975?

So Boris Johnson accuses Remainers as a "betrayal of Britain". So there we have it. All people with valid reasons to not see the EU as a monster are traitors. First the Judges who regulate british laws, then MP's democratically elected, and noe everyone who doesn't agree with Lying Boris Johnson and his 20-year bendy bananas front-page rag campaign are essentially betraying OUR country because he's frightened he won't get his way.

 

He threatens that it will lead the UK fundamentally bitter and divided and it's remainers fault. No, it's the fault of everyone who made false promises, like Johnson the smiling propagandist with waffle latin who's own family don't agree with his political views, Boris the serial adulterer, tax-money-waster, liar. Did I mention liar?

1. Because for the first time in 40 years we were actually asked for our opinion, rather than have further integration presented as a fait accompli?

 

2. That's somewhat of a generalization.

Unless you know something we don't, most of the over-50's who voted for it will still be around in a year's time! :rolleyes:

 

Are you seriously suggesting that over-50's should have simply shut up & accepted our EU membership uncomplainingly, regardless of what we thought of it?

 

As for 'having to live with a Brexit decision the under 50's didn't want', did it ever occur to you that that's precisely the situation we Eurosceptics have had to put up with since 1975?

 

You were a child in 1975. Your lack of knowledge on events from that time suggests you weren't parading your Primary school demanding we vote to stay out of the Common Market. It suggests you became convinced by subsequent bullshit rhetoric which tries to transform posh rich millionaires into some way representing the will of the people, downtrodden by an unelected democratic liberal elite. Bit like the Men Of The People like public school farage, toff Mogg, elite school foreign-born Johnson and so on.

 

Everyone is free to express a democratic opinion. That also applies to remainers.

 

If you feel the older people dying and younger people entering voting age will not change the public opinion and you still have 51.9% of the voters ready to want a hard Brexit then you would surely not be averse to checking that and letting people have a final say. Since you are against that then you know that isn't the case because you are frightened it won't happen. Fairly obviously.

 

So you don't feel confident that a majority of the UK feel the same way you do. Therefore you don't belive in democracy any more than Farage did when he announced the fight would go on when he thought he had lost. Why should Remainers stand by and let fools destroy OUR future, as we see it, just because some rich twats say that their lies are not lies and we will all live in a fluffy, pink future filled with fluffy pink tax-evading rich bast*rds with a low-paid job-searching horde they can push around and control.

 

Feel free to prove me wrong and agree to a final say, with an option top remain in the EU if we get a shit deal. If you don't that is because you know what is coming and you fear you won't get your way.

So Boris Johnson accuses Remainers as a "betrayal of Britain". So there we have it. All people with valid reasons to not see the EU as a monster are traitors. First the Judges who regulate british laws, then MP's democratically elected, and noe everyone who doesn't agree with Lying Boris Johnson and his 20-year bendy bananas front-page rag campaign are essentially betraying OUR country because he's frightened he won't get his way.

 

He threatens that it will lead the UK fundamentally bitter and divided and it's remainers fault. No, it's the fault of everyone who made false promises, like Johnson the smiling propagandist with waffle latin who's own family don't agree with his political views, Boris the serial adulterer, tax-money-waster, liar. Did I mention liar?

 

I thought Boris Johnson was a 'buffoon' who no-one should take seriously?

But what about the electorate in general - is it really credible that every one of those 17.4m people were 'brainwashed' by anti-EU propaganda?

As has been explained many times, the steady drip-drip of anti-EU front page stories over many years has an effect. Why else would the papers do it? Can you name a single paper which has consistently and frequently led on pro-EU stories?

You were a child in 1975. Your lack of knowledge on events from that time suggests you weren't parading your Primary school demanding we vote to stay out of the Common Market. It suggests you became convinced by subsequent bullshit rhetoric which tries to transform posh rich millionaires into some way representing the will of the people, downtrodden by an unelected democratic liberal elite. Bit like the Men Of The People like public school farage, toff Mogg, elite school foreign-born Johnson and so on.

 

Everyone is free to express a democratic opinion. That also applies to remainers.

 

If you feel the older people dying and younger people entering voting age will not change the public opinion and you still have 51.9% of the voters ready to want a hard Brexit then you would surely not be averse to checking that and letting people have a final say. Since you are against that then you know that isn't the case because you are frightened it won't happen. Fairly obviously.

 

So you don't feel confident that a majority of the UK feel the same way you do. Therefore you don't belive in democracy any more than Farage did when he announced the fight would go on when he thought he had lost. Why should Remainers stand by and let fools destroy OUR future, as we see it, just because some rich twats say that their lies are not lies and we will all live in a fluffy, pink future filled with fluffy pink tax-evading rich bast*rds with a low-paid job-searching horde they can push around and control.

 

Feel free to prove me wrong and agree to a final say, with an option top remain in the EU if we get a shit deal. If you don't that is because you know what is coming and you fear you won't get your way.

 

As I have said before, I would be delighted to have another referendum, as the EU has done nothing in the last 18 months that would make them more appealing than they were on 23/6/16

 

As has been explained many times, the steady drip-drip of anti-EU front page stories over many years has an effect. Why else would the papers do it? Can you name a single paper which has consistently and frequently led on pro-EU stories?

 

That is one possible hypothesis, but there is another one that could also account for the lack of pro-EU stories...

As I have said before, I would be delighted to have another referendum, as the EU has done nothing in the last 18 months that would make them more appealing than they were on 23/6/16

That is one possible hypothesis, but there is another one that could also account for the lack of pro-EU stories...

 

 

1. Delighted to hear it, we can both agree on a referendum to either accept the deal or stay in the EU. Good news!

 

2. Yes, they are busy getting on with the practical job rather than having newspapers doing front-page news feel-good stories every time something of benefit to people is passed. Otherwise there would many front pages every month......

 

as opposed to lies about bendy bananas and H&S gone mad which is actually UK legislation not EU legislation where other countries have far more of a relaxed attitude, barring imported chemicals in our food which are no doubt heading our way soon as we leave - and I look forward to daily mail headlines about that....

1. Delighted to hear it, we can both agree on a referendum to either accept the deal or stay in the EU. Good news!

 

1. In other words, 'Heads you win, tails I lose' - nice try... :rolleyes:

 

In any case, nothing we say here is going to make another referendum happen.

Oops, double post.

Edited February 14, 20187 yr by vidcapper

That is one possible hypothesis, but there is another one that could also account for the lack of pro-EU stories...

At least it would have been easy to publish a stream of pro-EU stories without having to make them up. Is that what you meant?

At least it would have been easy to publish a stream of pro-EU stories without having to make them up. Is that what you meant?

 

I was thinking more along the lines of there being very few pro-EU that were *also* headline-worthy. ;)

1. In other words, 'Heads you win, tails I lose' - nice try... :rolleyes:

 

In any case, nothing we say here is going to make another referendum happen.

 

1. So yuo continue not to be in favour of another referendum. What a surprise, so sure are you that we will get a fab deal you can't agree to all those guaranteed voters really gunning for it in case errr. it's rubbish and they'd rather stay in the EU.

 

So not at all in favour of democracy then.

 

2. Not relevant. Nothing we say on here is going to save the planet either, but you have to make sure the truth is always available in a world of propaganda lies....

I was thinking more along the lines of there being very few pro-EU that were *also* headline-worthy. ;)

 

That's what I said. Thanks for agreeing with me. A steady constant trickle of benefits that don't add up to much one by one, but in total are quite substantial.

 

that in a nutshell is why there are so many pro-EU people.

I was thinking more along the lines of there being very few pro-EU that were *also* headline-worthy. ;)

While most of the press just lets the government take the credit for popular measures introduced by the EU.

1. So yuo continue not to be in favour of another referendum. What a surprise, so sure are you that we will get a fab deal you can't agree to all those guaranteed voters really gunning for it in case errr. it's rubbish and they'd rather stay in the EU.

 

So not at all in favour of democracy then.

 

2. Not relevant. Nothing we say on here is going to save the planet either, but you have to make sure the truth is always available in a world of propaganda lies....

 

1. Not at all, I merely oppose a biased referendum - one designed to produce a specific result.

 

That's what I said. Thanks for agreeing with me. A steady constant trickle of benefits that don't add up to much one by one, but in total are quite substantial.

 

that in a nutshell is why there are so many pro-EU people.

 

There are at least as many anti-EU people, don't forget.

 

Is there a master list of these supposed benefits that *only* the EU can provide?

 

The only one I recall offhand being mentioned here is Roaming Charges...

 

While most of the press just lets the government take the credit for popular measures introduced by the EU.

 

see above.

1. Because for the first time in 40 years we were actually asked for our opinion, rather than have further integration presented as a fait accompli?

 

2. That's somewhat of a generalization.

Unless you know something we don't, most of the over-50's who voted for it will still be around in a year's time! :rolleyes:

 

Are you seriously suggesting that over-50's should have simply shut up & accepted our EU membership uncomplainingly, regardless of what we thought of it?

 

As for 'having to live with a Brexit decision the under 50's didn't want', did it ever occur to you that that's precisely the situation we Eurosceptics have had to put up with since 1975?

 

 

Will the arrangements be completed in 5 years? Will all the deals and kinks and trading deals be ready in 5 years? Maybe 10? So a lot of the people who voted for Brexit will no longer be on the electoral role by that point. The youth now will be, 80% EU support. Thee maths does not support a flimsy 52% win. In a couple years at LEAST it will tip the other way. It may have already happened.

Will the arrangements be completed in 5 years? Will all the deals and kinks and trading deals be ready in 5 years? Maybe 10? So a lot of the people who voted for Brexit will no longer be on the electoral role by that point. The youth now will be, 80% EU support.

 

Don't worry, in 40 years the gov't of the time might deign to grant you a vote on re-entry - assuming the EU hasn't collapsed by then. :teresa:

I checked the Guardian's website for their take on the following, but curiously, there's nothing about there... :rolleyes:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-53...sh-Britain.html

 

Brexit win for Britain as Brussels cancels controversial plan to put punishment clause in the transition deal after a backlash from 12 EU countries

 

EU negotiator Michel Barnier revealed a plan for a punishment clause last week

It triggered a major row both in the UK and across other EU member states

Draft transition agreement no longer includes the measure after it was dropped

 

With 80% youth vote for, it won't be 40 years.

 

How anti-democratic.

 

Force a shitty vote, continue with it after an MP dies due to over the top press campaigning, let's face it, then force us to leave based on a non-binding result of 52 bloody %. And 2 nations.

 

All of this was predicated on Leave promising everything to anyone.

 

Now, once the terms are known, plus consequences, we can't have a vote on actual facts, because THAT is anti-democratic.

 

Really?? REAAALLY???

1. Not at all, I merely oppose a biased referendum - one designed to produce a specific result.

There are at least as many anti-EU people, don't forget.

 

Is there a master list of these supposed benefits that *only* the EU can provide?

 

The only one I recall offhand being mentioned here is Roaming Charges...

see above.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11...1d-09f7778e7377

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/polit...t-a6850626.html

 

http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analysis...outweigh-costs/

 

http://econ.economicshelp.org/2007/03/bene...pean-union.html

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/13-th...on-gave-8257113

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6455879.stm

 

30 seconds cut n paste on google.

 

If you insist on demanding Remainers prove their case, just try googling yourself first because it makes you look lazy and ignorant.

 

Now provide a list of advantages of NOT being in the EU that are not OTT fantasy wish-fulfilment from millionaires or foreigners.....

 

1. Then you ARE in favour of giving everyone a straight choice between accepting the final result or staying as we are? If not, I repeat, you don't believe in democracy cos you are frit of losing.

 

2. If there are at least as many anti-EU people then you wont object to testing that in a final referendum,