Russia is struggling on the battlefield right now, with Ukraine pushing further into Russia and counterattacking. Putin phones Trump and demands Ukraine's surrender, and Trump LEAPS at it. This "anti war" president is a joke. He is just causing more conflict further down the line.

Also like, if you consider that 'Ukraine joining NATO' was a major reason for the conflict starting (I don't, it's a pretense to recapture territory inhabited by ethnic Russians/glory hunting, Russia has never been in any danger from a defensive alliance), then a good way to stop that happening is to put it to the question and resolve it, Ukrainian public didn't really want to join NATO before 2014, now of course it has massive public support.

 

Russia blocking Ukraine joining NATO as part of the peace deal would IMO be a red line for Ukraine, how come Ukraine don't get to have any say in their fate according to some commentators?

Ukraine joining NATO is what started this in the first place.

That's what Putin wants you to believe and (along with the Nazi lie) is the official line. He wasn't all that bothered when Finland decided to join and is on record in the past stating that Ukraine would eventually join NATO at is their business to decide. He allowed the US to establish military bases in Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan following 9/11 which would be unthinkable if he was concerned about NATO on his doorstep. He even once suggested Russia might join NATO one day.

 

In 2002 when the Baltic states joined NATO, Putin said -

“We of course are not in a position to tell people what to do. We cannot forbid people to make certain choices if they want to increase the security of their nations in a particular way.”

 

He spoke of Ukraine in - "I am absolutely convinced that Ukraine will not shy away from the processes of expanding interaction with NATO and the Western allies as a whole. Ukraine has its own relations with NATO; there is the Ukraine-NATO Council. At the end of the day, the decision is to be taken by NATO and Ukraine. It is a matter for those two partners"

 

For the first 8 years of his reign as Russia's leader he had no objections to Ukraine joining NATO.

 

Ask yourself what happened to Putin in 2008 that so shifted his attitude towards his neighbours looking westward.

 

 

The reality is that Putin has two main goals.

 

Foremost is his fear that the increasing democratisation of neighbouring nations is a threat to his own position in Russia. He is terrified that Russia will decide to follow the path to true democracy and he would be desposed and seen as overseer of the breakup of the once great world power. He acted when neighbours Georgia looked to change things and was deeply concerned when the Arab Spring saw multiple regimes undergo colossal changes and dictators were deposed.

 

Subsequently, he has designs on restoring Russia as a great imperial power, as it was during the era of the Russian Empire and the USSR. Part of this involves absorbing Ukraine back in to Russia itself, not just into their sphere of influence. He sees Ukraine as part of Russia and has latterly dismissed its status as a sovereign nation and questioned its right to exist. Kyiv was the founding city of the Kievan Rus which dominated Eastern European Slavic culture for nearly 400 years, he views it as the birthplace of Russian identity and an intrinsic part of the Motherland

 

Ukraine meanwhile has been trying to establish freedom from Russian aggression since the October Revolution in 1917 and the subsequent Russian Civil War.

 

 

NATO is an excuse to justify his actions and lay the blame elsewhere. His actions are entirely self serving.

 

Russia is struggling on the battlefield right now, with Ukraine pushing further into Russia and counterattacking. Putin phones Trump and demands Ukraine's surrender, and Trump LEAPS at it. This "anti war" president is a joke. He is just causing more conflict further down the line.

 

If you see the Ukrainian soldiers messages and morale they are spent. Hanging on for dear life. Desperate for reinforcements or a deal. Dead soldiers google searches were all desperate panic hoping a deal can be reached. They’re not going to beat Russia. They’re going to be slowly wiped out and it’s pretty sick that some people think this is a chess game or fun, it’s a war Ukraine cannot win and they’re not winning. 4 million Ukrainians live under Russia occupation right now. They’re have over 20% of Ukrainian land, the average Russian fighters age is now 40’s. It’s pure insanity to keep the war going and claiming to care about Ukraine or Ukrainians.

 

Also like, if you consider that 'Ukraine joining NATO' was a major reason for the conflict starting (I don't, it's a pretense to recapture territory inhabited by ethnic Russians/glory hunting, Russia has never been in any danger from a defensive alliance), then a good way to stop that happening is to put it to the question and resolve it, Ukrainian public didn't really want to join NATO before 2014, now of course it has massive public support.

 

Russia blocking Ukraine joining NATO as part of the peace deal would IMO be a red line for Ukraine, how come Ukraine don't get to have any say in their fate according to some commentators?

 

If that’s a redline with Ukraine then there are no peace talks and negotiations. It’s suicidal so it doesn’t make sense. Zelensky I has already caused unspeakable damage to Ukraine with his amateur style and he still can’t let the NATO thing go. The way they’ve forced almost kids into front lines to be slaughtered is so senseless. US warmongers have long sought a conflict with Russia and they did everything to provoke one and they thought they would financially cripple Russia and it’d lead to Putin being overthrown but all it did is lose hundreds of thousands of lives and financially weaken ordinary citizens in the US & UK etc. these same geniuses lost thousands of people their lives and limbs in Afghanistan just to hand it back to the Taliban and be right back to where it started. It’s the same result here l, I don’t get how you can’t see it.

 

Overall your end conclusion is no different to EU bureaucrats it’s just being stubborn for the sake of it. It doesn’t matter the why or why not. Russia(rightly in my opinion) see NATO as a threat and if a nation can’t join NATO if it’s already at war then why would they end it? That’s clearly the main factor here despite people claiming otherwise.

 

There are two choices. End the war and forget NATO or keep it going and probably lose Ukraine to Russia. Bizarrely a lot of the people who claim Russia want to absorb Ukraine are happy for the latter option which almost certainly results in that.

 

The UK was not just training Ukrainians, but providing the weapons, setting them up as well. Do you not see how crazy that is? Doing everything but fire them. It’s very close to an all out war with a superpower with more nukes than you can count. Just insanity to get into that position for a completely unnecessary and unwinnable war.

 

 

That's what Putin wants you to believe and (along with the Nazi lie) is the official line. He wasn't all that bothered when Finland decided to join and is on record in the past stating that Ukraine would eventually join NATO at is their business to decide. He allowed the US to establish military bases in Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan following 9/11 which would be unthinkable if he was concerned about NATO on his doorstep. He even once suggested Russia might join NATO one day.

 

In 2002 when the Baltic states joined NATO, Putin said -

“We of course are not in a position to tell people what to do. We cannot forbid people to make certain choices if they want to increase the security of their nations in a particular way.”

 

He spoke of Ukraine in - "I am absolutely convinced that Ukraine will not shy away from the processes of expanding interaction with NATO and the Western allies as a whole. Ukraine has its own relations with NATO; there is the Ukraine-NATO Council. At the end of the day, the decision is to be taken by NATO and Ukraine. It is a matter for those two partners"

 

For the first 8 years of his reign as Russia's leader he had no objections to Ukraine joining NATO.

 

Ask yourself what happened to Putin in 2008 that so shifted his attitude towards his neighbours looking westward.

The reality is that Putin has two main goals.

 

Foremost is his fear that the increasing democratisation of neighbouring nations is a threat to his own position in Russia. He is terrified that Russia will decide to follow the path to true democracy and he would be desposed and seen as overseer of the breakup of the once great world power. He acted when neighbours Georgia looked to change things and was deeply concerned when the Arab Spring saw multiple regimes undergo colossal changes and dictators were deposed.

 

Subsequently, he has designs on restoring Russia as a great imperial power, as it was during the era of the Russian Empire and the USSR. Part of this involves absorbing Ukraine back in to Russia itself, not just into their sphere of influence. He sees Ukraine as part of Russia and has latterly dismissed its status as a sovereign nation and questioned its right to exist. Kyiv was the founding city of the Kievan Rus which dominated Eastern European Slavic culture for nearly 400 years, he views it as the birthplace of Russian identity and an intrinsic part of the Motherland

 

Ukraine meanwhile has been trying to establish freedom from Russian aggression since the October Revolution in 1917 and the subsequent Russian Civil War.

NATO is an excuse to justify his actions and lay the blame elsewhere. His actions are entirely self serving.

 

This is just politics. How many countries has the US tried to overthrow and install a more US friendly leader? Throughout the world. They’ve tried multiple times with Venezuela recently and various others. Big superpowers do that. How is it shocking that Russia would prefer a Ukrainian leader more friendly to them than America? It’s just the norm. The Arab spring was not random, it was heavily exploited and orchestrated by the US to overthrow certain leaders like Assad. It’s well known and even Trump commented that when the operation to take out the ISIS leader Israel pulled out at the last minute. They were working with ISIS and the rebels to overthrow ISIS and had agreements. Obviously Putin is going to see how all this is playing out and protect himself. Who wouldn’t? He’s an adversary to many major US powerful people with major influence. They’ve wanted him gone for decades.

 

How can they call someone a dangerous dictator then do everything to provoke the person? It doesn’t make sense. The world is not perfect. Putin is not a great guy but he is there and NATO is a threat to him and Russia and the choices now leave for a simple option to save lives and end a pointless war and some people would rather create wild hypotheticals or proclaim to read Putin’s mind. People have to admit they’re not bothered by a huge potentially escalating conflict with an unknown ending due to their Russia stance or do the sensible thing. You can easily make Ukraine strong enough with security guarantees to rule out future Russia aggression than you can convince Putin and Russia that NATO is purely defensive don’t mind if we put a US base right along your border.

Like Silas said, I really don't get this opposition to NATO by virtue of closeness, they could drop a base in eastern Estonia or Finland right now and it'd be just as close if not closer to Russia's major population centres than anything in Ukraine.

 

NATO membership for Ukraine does functionally one thing and one thing only, it closes down a future route for further Putinist expansion for good. Any other security guarantees may work for a time, but would not be as binding, we may just wind up in the same position again.

 

Europe needs to assert its own interests here, because they are under threat. Russia invading a democracy is quite literally the threat, Putin seeing democratisation and leaders of other countries no longer being bought by him and invading is something that should be resisted and punished. He will 100% move into Georgia if they ever overthrow their new Russian-friendly president and he will want to replace Zelensky with a regime favourable to Russia at the first opportunity. Breaking international law to invade another nation should in the 21st century be a punishing move that you NEVER come back from. Putin's just going to take it as carte blanche to do as he wishes in his area rather than seek any rapprochement within the wider international community.

 

I don't want the war to continue going but capitulating to Russia does not lead to a good outcome and should be avoided at all costs. Unfortunately, the Americans have effectively torpedoed Ukraine's chances with their moves in the negotiations so far. The move to make major concessions right at the start by saying no chance of Ukraine 2014... I'm sorry to keep going back to this, but it's such an amateur move, Trump and Hegseth clearly have no idea what they're doing other than making friendly with Russia again as the sole outcome of the talks, which is a major betrayal of everything Ukraine has been fighting for. With this sort of approach, Putin's demands that Ukraine give up Zaporizhia and demilitarise may be something they are actually considering, which is the sort of ridiculous posturing they should be rejecting out of hand.

Ukraine joining NATO is what started this in the first place. Why would Russia ever agree to that? People need to think back to when all this was starting. Every single person I saw on TV or wherever said Putin was bluffing. It’s all a tactic. They’re not going to invade Ukraine. Of course they were. Putin does not trust the west whatsoever. The idea Ukraine could be used as a proxy for NATO to go to war with Russia is a threat to him to Russia. They will do everything possible not to allow it. Their stance is we’ve been at war for years and lost hundreds of thousands of people, we are not going to just go back to what we originally wanted after all that.

News flash - Russia doesn't get to decide who joins NATO.

If you see the Ukrainian soldiers messages and morale they are spent. Hanging on for dear life. Desperate for reinforcements or a deal. Dead soldiers google searches were all desperate panic hoping a deal can be reached. They’re not going to beat Russia. They’re going to be slowly wiped out and it’s pretty sick that some people think this is a chess game or fun, it’s a war Ukraine cannot win and they’re not winning. 4 million Ukrainians live under Russia occupation right now. They’re have over 20% of Ukrainian land, the average Russian fighters age is now 40’s. It’s pure insanity to keep the war going and claiming to care about Ukraine or Ukrainians.

If that’s a redline with Ukraine then there are no peace talks and negotiations. It’s suicidal so it doesn’t make sense. Zelensky I has already caused unspeakable damage to Ukraine with his amateur style and he still can’t let the NATO thing go. The way they’ve forced almost kids into front lines to be slaughtered is so senseless. US warmongers have long sought a conflict with Russia and they did everything to provoke one and they thought they would financially cripple Russia and it’d lead to Putin being overthrown but all it did is lose hundreds of thousands of lives and financially weaken ordinary citizens in the US & UK etc. these same geniuses lost thousands of people their lives and limbs in Afghanistan just to hand it back to the Taliban and be right back to where it started. It’s the same result here l, I don’t get how you can’t see it.

 

Overall your end conclusion is no different to EU bureaucrats it’s just being stubborn for the sake of it. It doesn’t matter the why or why not. Russia(rightly in my opinion) see NATO as a threat and if a nation can’t join NATO if it’s already at war then why would they end it? That’s clearly the main factor here despite people claiming otherwise.

 

There are two choices. End the war and forget NATO or keep it going and probably lose Ukraine to Russia. Bizarrely a lot of the people who claim Russia want to absorb Ukraine are happy for the latter option which almost certainly results in that.

 

The UK was not just training Ukrainians, but providing the weapons, setting them up as well. Do you not see how crazy that is? Doing everything but fire them. It’s very close to an all out war with a superpower with more nukes than you can count. Just insanity to get into that position for a completely unnecessary and unwinnable war.

This is just politics. How many countries has the US tried to overthrow and install a more US friendly leader? Throughout the world. They’ve tried multiple times with Venezuela recently and various others. Big superpowers do that. How is it shocking that Russia would prefer a Ukrainian leader more friendly to them than America? It’s just the norm. The Arab spring was not random, it was heavily exploited and orchestrated by the US to overthrow certain leaders like Assad. It’s well known and even Trump commented that when the operation to take out the ISIS leader Israel pulled out at the last minute. They were working with ISIS and the rebels to overthrow ISIS and had agreements. Obviously Putin is going to see how all this is playing out and protect himself. Who wouldn’t? He’s an adversary to many major US powerful people with major influence. They’ve wanted him gone for decades.

 

How can they call someone a dangerous dictator then do everything to provoke the person? It doesn’t make sense. The world is not perfect. Putin is not a great guy but he is there and NATO is a threat to him and Russia and the choices now leave for a simple option to save lives and end a pointless war and some people would rather create wild hypotheticals or proclaim to read Putin’s mind. People have to admit they’re not bothered by a huge potentially escalating conflict with an unknown ending due to their Russia stance or do the sensible thing. You can easily make Ukraine strong enough with security guarantees to rule out future Russia aggression than you can convince Putin and Russia that NATO is purely defensive don’t mind if we put a US base right along your border.

 

It's a tough one really - I think as people have already pointed out Putin wasn't always like this. But the Kremlin became obsessed with the idea of the old Republic again. The issue is, Russia is an enemy of the West, on one side you can argue that NATO and the US were funding Ukraine to morally defeat Russia as while they have some clear advantages, they are going to be forced to be China's long term ally and likely bitch moving forwards.

 

The issue is (what Trump and MAGA don't see.. or just don't care) that Putin or whoever replaces him isn't going to stop. Russia will go for Ukraine again at some point and then what happens if it goes for the baltic states? Dangerous game to play.

If you see the Ukrainian soldiers messages and morale they are spent. Hanging on for dear life. Desperate for reinforcements or a deal. Dead soldiers google searches were all desperate panic hoping a deal can be reached. They’re not going to beat Russia. They’re going to be slowly wiped out and it’s pretty sick that some people think this is a chess game or fun, it’s a war Ukraine cannot win and they’re not winning. 4 million Ukrainians live under Russia occupation right now. They’re have over 20% of Ukrainian land, the average Russian fighters age is now 40’s. It’s pure insanity to keep the war going and claiming to care about Ukraine or Ukrainians.

If that’s a redline with Ukraine then there are no peace talks and negotiations. It’s suicidal so it doesn’t make sense. Zelensky I has already caused unspeakable damage to Ukraine with his amateur style and he still can’t let the NATO thing go. The way they’ve forced almost kids into front lines to be slaughtered is so senseless. US warmongers have long sought a conflict with Russia and they did everything to provoke one and they thought they would financially cripple Russia and it’d lead to Putin being overthrown but all it did is lose hundreds of thousands of lives and financially weaken ordinary citizens in the US & UK etc. these same geniuses lost thousands of people their lives and limbs in Afghanistan just to hand it back to the Taliban and be right back to where it started. It’s the same result here l, I don’t get how you can’t see it.

 

Overall your end conclusion is no different to EU bureaucrats it’s just being stubborn for the sake of it. It doesn’t matter the why or why not. Russia(rightly in my opinion) see NATO as a threat and if a nation can’t join NATO if it’s already at war then why would they end it? That’s clearly the main factor here despite people claiming otherwise.

 

There are two choices. End the war and forget NATO or keep it going and probably lose Ukraine to Russia. Bizarrely a lot of the people who claim Russia want to absorb Ukraine are happy for the latter option which almost certainly results in that.

 

The UK was not just training Ukrainians, but providing the weapons, setting them up as well. Do you not see how crazy that is? Doing everything but fire them. It’s very close to an all out war with a superpower with more nukes than you can count. Just insanity to get into that position for a completely unnecessary and unwinnable war.

This is just politics. How many countries has the US tried to overthrow and install a more US friendly leader? Throughout the world. They’ve tried multiple times with Venezuela recently and various others. Big superpowers do that. How is it shocking that Russia would prefer a Ukrainian leader more friendly to them than America? It’s just the norm. The Arab spring was not random, it was heavily exploited and orchestrated by the US to overthrow certain leaders like Assad. It’s well known and even Trump commented that when the operation to take out the ISIS leader Israel pulled out at the last minute. They were working with ISIS and the rebels to overthrow ISIS and had agreements. Obviously Putin is going to see how all this is playing out and protect himself. Who wouldn’t? He’s an adversary to many major US powerful people with major influence. They’ve wanted him gone for decades.

 

How can they call someone a dangerous dictator then do everything to provoke the person? It doesn’t make sense. The world is not perfect. Putin is not a great guy but he is there and NATO is a threat to him and Russia and the choices now leave for a simple option to save lives and end a pointless war and some people would rather create wild hypotheticals or proclaim to read Putin’s mind. People have to admit they’re not bothered by a huge potentially escalating conflict with an unknown ending due to their Russia stance or do the sensible thing. You can easily make Ukraine strong enough with security guarantees to rule out future Russia aggression than you can convince Putin and Russia that NATO is purely defensive don’t mind if we put a US base right along your border.

 

You could have said that about the K in world war 2 until 1942...

 

Also, we have seen what the Russians do after occupying Ukrainian territory. It's not a fate that they can accept and it takes a pretty sick individual to want that for them

 

Russia is struggling on the battlefield right now, with Ukraine pushing further into Russia and counterattacking. Putin phones Trump and demands Ukraine's surrender, and Trump LEAPS at it. This "anti war" president is a joke. He is just causing more conflict further down the line.

 

Struggling? You do know why we don’t hear reports of the war on the ground daily is because Russia are slowly gaining whereas the incursion into the Kursk region made news for days because Ukraine came out positive from it.

Again, NATO ONLY exists because of Russian aggression lol. Russia can make NATO go away basically overnight by, um, not invading or conducting hybrid wars, or acting like it should decide what the countries next to it do. The reason why south American countries aren't in a defensive pact with Russia and China is precisely because the US doesn't go around invading them!

 

Are you aware of the history of South America since 1945 is one of American secret services continuously support right wing military dictatorships through their secret services against leftist governments see Venuzeula and Chile (General Pinochet was Thatchers best mate, so much so he was able to come here in old age and have security in Britain). They supported Pinochet while they said apartheid South Africa was an ally right up to 1990, think about that.

@1891250089714127339

 

Just great…

@1891250089714127339

 

Just great…

Blame the orange blob. His peace surrender plan for Ukraine includes a peacekeeping force in the country. He has ruled out the use of US troops. That means deploying European troops. Naturally Agent Orange hasn't bothered to consult European leaders. Similarly, he has insisted that European countries spend 5% of their GDP on defence. The US currently spends 3.4% of GDP on defence. The hideous orang blob of flesh has not said when the US will meet his own target.

@1891250089714127339

 

Just great…

 

I guess your "president of peace"'s capitulation wasn't such a good idea after all! Who'da thought it!!

Yeah all the usual right wing mob not really understanding global politics.. shock. Trump wants this as part of a deal and he doesn’t want US troops to do it. If you don’t put up a deterrent, Russia will just rearm and invade again. Honestly, people are naive and dumb if they don’t think Russia will move again at some point within the next 5-10 years.

Yeah all the usual right wing mob not really understanding global politics.. shock. Trump wants this as part of a deal and he doesn’t want US troops to do it. If you don’t put up a deterrent, Russia will just rearm and invade again. Honestly, people are naive and dumb if they don’t think Russia will move again at some point within the next 5-10 years.

 

You want to know what this is really about? Trump essentially cut through the bluster. European leaders have never felt more irrelevant. This is about saving face and keeping up the pretence of strength. Except putting British soldiers lives at risk to do so is not in anyone’s interest. Macron and Starmer can’t control their own borders but now they’re going to patrol Ukraine’s? What will Britain do if Russia shells an area and kills British troops? What exactly? Look at what Tony Blair did to British troops. Starmer trying to do the same. The UK has no business being in Ukraine. Russia is not bothered by the UK the only deterrent would be US troops and that won’t be happening. End the war. Strengthen Ukraine to where it wouldn’t be in Russia’s interest to ever get into a gruelling war again and move on. Putting UK troops on the ground would be the worse decision possible.

You want to know what this is really about? Trump essentially cut through the bluster. European leaders have never felt more irrelevant. This is about saving face and keeping up the pretence of strength. Except putting British soldiers lives at risk to do so is not in anyone’s interest. Macron and Starmer can’t control their own borders but now they’re going to patrol Ukraine’s? What will Britain do if Russia shells an area and kills British troops? What exactly? Look at what Tony Blair did to British troops. Starmer trying to do the same. The UK has no business being in Ukraine. Russia is not bothered by the UK the only deterrent would be US troops and that won’t be happening. End the war. Strengthen Ukraine to where it wouldn’t be in Russia’s interest to ever get into a gruelling war again and move on. Putting UK troops on the ground would be the worse decision possible.

Cut through the bluster and handed over large parts of Ukraine to Putin. How is that a good thing?

You want to know what this is really about? Trump essentially cut through the bluster. European leaders have never felt more irrelevant. This is about saving face and keeping up the pretence of strength. Except putting British soldiers lives at risk to do so is not in anyone’s interest. Macron and Starmer can’t control their own borders but now they’re going to patrol Ukraine’s? What will Britain do if Russia shells an area and kills British troops? What exactly? Look at what Tony Blair did to British troops. Starmer trying to do the same. The UK has no business being in Ukraine. Russia is not bothered by the UK the only deterrent would be US troops and that won’t be happening. End the war. Strengthen Ukraine to where it wouldn’t be in Russia’s interest to ever get into a gruelling war again and move on. Putting UK troops on the ground would be the worse decision possible.

 

Wat

 

You want to know what this is really about? Trump essentially cut through the bluster. European leaders have never felt more irrelevant. This is about saving face and keeping up the pretence of strength. Except putting British soldiers lives at risk to do so is not in anyone’s interest. Macron and Starmer can’t control their own borders but now they’re going to patrol Ukraine’s? What will Britain do if Russia shells an area and kills British troops? What exactly? Look at what Tony Blair did to British troops. Starmer trying to do the same. The UK has no business being in Ukraine. Russia is not bothered by the UK the only deterrent would be US troops and that won’t be happening. End the war. Strengthen Ukraine to where it wouldn’t be in Russia’s interest to ever get into a gruelling war again and move on. Putting UK troops on the ground would be the worse decision possible.

 

It’s a peace keeping treaty, not a war :lol: There’s incredibly naivety if you think when a war ends, everyone goes back to daisys and roses the following day. Russia would agree to the terms too and sign a treaty so if they started shelling troops then it would be an act of war? Appeasement does not work, try asking Neville Chamberlain about that one.

 

The world does not revolve around the US, absolutely Europe have relied on the US for so long but the US will be on its own when it runs in to its own wars down the line. The Kremlins longer term ambition is to take over the old USSR. Why you think Putin doesnt want Ukraine to join NATO? It’s really because down the line the Kremlin will go for it again. All intelligence speaks that way.

 

 

Cut through the bluster and handed over large parts of Ukraine to Putin. How is that a good thing?

 

Ending the conflict is a good thing. The war handed large parts of Ukraine to Russia hence why it should have been avoided. But of course the geniuses took away Ukraine’s nukes, then installed an anti-Russian leader and then started talking about Ukraine joining NATO provoking a conflict that they thought would see the end of Putin instead it’s another pointless war with bad ramifications like the previous 5.

 

Ukraine doesn’t have to accept any bad deal, hopefully it’s a good deal. If it is then it’s important insecure European leaders don’t ruin it by trying to save face because UK troops in Ukraine isn’t much difference to Ukraine joining NATO. The opposite of peacekeeping. It’s war provoking.

Ending the conflict is a good thing. The war handed large parts of Ukraine to Russia hence why it should have been avoided. But of course the geniuses took away Ukraine’s nukes, then installed an anti-Russian leader and then started talking about Ukraine joining NATO provoking a conflict that they thought would see the end of Putin instead it’s another pointless war with bad ramifications like the previous 5.

 

Ukraine doesn’t have to accept any bad deal, hopefully it’s a good deal. If it is then it’s important insecure European leaders don’t ruin it by trying to save face because UK troops in Ukraine isn’t much difference to Ukraine joining NATO. The opposite of peacekeeping. It’s war provoking.

 

This is just laughable Liam, sorry. I’m sure you’d roll over and let Russia waltz in if the Kremlin ever decided it wanted to take over the United Kingdom. By your logic every leader should be pro Russian because we’re scared of tinpot dictatorship.

 

You’re largely ignoring the fact in peace treaty signed there will be a “no war zone” which will need to be managed and monitored, otherwise separatist groups from both sides could start the war again. The far right rhetoric is absolutely laughable. No wonder Putinis jumping through hoops for Trump.