With air pollution, it's a drip, drip effect if you get my meaning... And if you actually think that somehow traffic fumes are not at least a contributory factor in a lot of respitory problems, then frankly you're not looking at medical evidence....

 

Cleaner, greener ways to drive cars is possible, the options are just not being looked at because of vested interests...

 

 

i dont dissagree, however we are talking about cigarettes here!

the whole Roy Castle debate is a strange one - here is a man who made his living in these smoky workingmen's clubs, who quite happily took the cash when nobody else wanted him or even knew who he was... then, when he contracts cancer some 40 years down the line... oh, how convenient to blame those clubs from all those years ago - what baloney.

 

And far from being in denial - I'm well aware of the health risks of smoking for me - what I seriously doubt is this apparent risk of 2nd hand smoking - I have yet to see ANY facts regarding this, any comprehensive studies or reports, and I maintain that I think it's a load of propaganda rubbish - I don't think second hand smoke affects you at all.

 

And cot deaths - I think the reason for these has very little, if anything, to do with smoking parents. It may be a fact that children born from smokers will have chest and lung defects or weaknesses.... but I don't believe cot deaths arise from being in a house with smokers at all. However, someone on this thread has evidence that this is the case - I'd like to see that evidence.

 

And to the adult Robbie Williams fan - so you agree with me that anyone participating in extreme sports in the UK should be made to pay far higher taxes to cover possible injuries and possible drain on the NHS, yes? Because your argument regarding smokers is exactly the same - a dangerous hobby that is a risk to yourself (and sometimes others) that is a possible colossal drain on NHS funds and resource. Surely if these people participate in such foolhardy sports, they should get 2nd class service from the health service - is this what you're saying?

 

As for long haul flights - EVERY smoker thinks twice about long train, plane and car journeys because they would be unable to smoke... the same as no smoker would dream of going to a non-smoking establishment... the same as smokers tend not to go to the cinema very often (myself included). When will the 30-40% of smokers in this country stand up and say NO, THIS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH - we want smoking cinemas (they'd be a huge hit), exclusively smoking bars (which bars are, currently, anyway, just about), trains and planes? You're not talking about a small minority - you're talking about not far off HALF the population in the UK who smoke... and who are being treated as if they no longer exist.

 

It's utter lunacy - and the pious, smug non-smoking brigade have been getting their way for far too long - just you wait til the smoking ban is in force - THEN the $h!te will hit the fan, because smokers, myself included, WILL NOT be told what to do - end of.

 

 

pure denial and typical of the fascisistic attitude of hardend smokers..

 

'ill smoke if i want to and i dont give a flying fcuk if you dont like it'..

 

you chose to smoke, i chose not to because it nausiates me, second hand smoke nausiates me, it gets into MY body and i dont want it there.

 

why should you want to willingly inflict your filth upon others who find the smoke itself offensive?.. i rank the smell of fags as offensive as racist or homophobic talk.... either way its air pollution that i cant prevent hitting my body by the perpetrators...

 

smoke as much as you want, i dont mind, as long as it doesnt effect others who dont want/like your smoke then fair enough .

 

i think theres plenty of evidence that second hand smoking is harmful.. but of course you dont want to hear that.

Russt, the vast majority of Robbie fans are adults btw. He's not Justin Timberlake you know :P

And rather old adults at that. :P

 

When I have the time I'll tell you all about my dad's smoking habit, heart attack, angina and triple bypass surgery.He was in total denial about the health risks of smoking too. Until he dropped 'dead' in front of me and had to be resuscitated. Only when you've sat for days in Intensive Care watching a loved one cough up black tar from their lungs can you appreciate what smoking does to the human body. And it's not pretty. :(

http://thorax.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract...ey=oOWFTLwzS7sB.

 

link to article on cot death .... note the line near the bottom ....

"CONCLUSIONS: Maternal smoking doubles the risk of sudden infant death syndrome. The relationship is almost certainly causal. There is good evidence that postnatal exposure to environmental tobacco smoke from both mother and father are important."

 

 

http://thorax.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/52/10/905

 

link to article on passive smoking and repiratory illness in children

 

"CONCLUSIONS: The relationship between parental smoking and acute lower respiratory illness in infancy is very likely to be causal. Although it is impossible to distinguish the independent contributions of prenatal and postnatal maternal smoking, the increased risk associated with smoking by other household members suggests that exposure to environmental tobacco smoke after birth is a cause of acute chest illness in young children."

 

 

 

Link to article about passive smoking ....... last line is interesting

 

"This toll makes passive smoking the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States today, behind active smoking and alcohol."

 

I have no intention of continuing in this debate - I find the image of smokers revolting enmasse quite amusing. - That didn't happen in Dublin - and it didn't happen in Scotland!!!

 

I do not think any intelligent person (regardless of age or musical taste) could possibly deny the link between smoking and passive smoke and health issues.

Edited December 6, 200618 yr by ICR

I think you'll find what's happened in Dublin is smokers have simply stopped going out - and when I was there a few months ago, literally EVERY bar I went into was empty, as well as the clubs..... the most people could be found out the backs or fronts of these venues puffing up - the clubs were utterly devoid of atmosphere, nobody on the dancefloors and no queues to get a beer....

 

There's been a record number of closures since the ban in both Ireland and Scotland - maybe you should ask some of these ex-publicans if they think the smoking ban worked for them?

 

And Rob - have you not heard of non-smoking areas in bars? Maybe you choose to avoid these because non-smoking areas in pubs and clubs are always EMPTY?

And Rob - have you not heard of non-smoking areas in bars? Maybe you choose to avoid these because non-smoking areas in pubs and clubs are always EMPTY?

 

 

like ive already stated russ, tell the smoke it cant go in that area over there!....lol.. it fills the room m8y, no escape.

 

ive not noticed non smoking areas being any less populated then smoking zones, nor do i believe that smokers are all the life and soul of a party! insiuating that non smokers dont have fun is just barmy!

like ive already stated russ, tell the smoke it cant go in that area over there!....lol.. it fills the room m8y, no escape.

 

ive not noticed non smoking areas being any less populated then smoking zones, nor do i believe that smokers are all the life and soul of a party! insiuating that non smokers dont have fun is just barmy!

 

But are there enough non-smokers who originally would't go out going out now to make up for all the smokers who dont because they're not allowed to exercise their rights to have a puff...? As a non-smoker, I didn't let it bother me, I went out regardless, as I would argue the majority of non-smokers did, is the reverse happening..? Are smokers forsaking their fags to go to pubs..? That's the question.. If pubs are losing 30-40% of business because of this, then it would appear an ultimately foolhardy policy...

 

Bottom line, I am SICK of being treated like a fukkin' two year old by this fukkin' Govt, they are acting like some kind of bloody Nanny trying to control the behaviour of adults, and the fact is, getting back to the main point of thread, they are NOT willing to abide by their own laws, the nice little loophole they've got for themselves is well out of order imo ... I honestly cannot think of any other Govt in this country's history that is trying to control, monitor and engineer the thoughts, actions and behaviour of the people of this country to the degree that B-Liar and his cronies are....

 

We should ALL resist this, because today it's smokers having their rights shat upon, tomorrow, who knows who's gonna be next....

 

And I shall say this again - I AM A NON-SMOKER WHO IS PRO-CHOICE..... Hope that sorts out any confusion.....

 

 

We should ALL resist this, because today it's smokers having their rights shat upon,

 

........ and non smokers arnt?..havnt for years?..

 

im sick and tired of having stinging eyes, irritation in my nose and throat, the stink of tobacco in my hair, nose, clothes and the lingering effect in my house after my clothes have tainted my home.

 

ive always believed that people should be free to indulge in anything they want to... providing a) its legal, and B) it doesnt effect anyone else whom it might offend.

 

........ and non smokers arnt?..havnt for years?..

 

im sick and tired of having stinging eyes, irritation in my nose and throat, the stink of tobacco in my hair, nose, clothes and the lingering effect in my house after my clothes have tainted my home.

 

ive always believed that people should be free to indulge in anything they want to... providing a) its legal, and B) it doesnt effect anyone else whom it might offend.

 

With all due respect Rob, you're only one person though... And yeah, the whole 'stinky clothes/hair' thing is bad, but like I said the majority of Non-Smokers accept it and shrug it off... It's essentially no big deal to put the clothes in the wash or go have a shower to get the bad smell off your hair....

I was in the doctors this morning, and there was a poster about cot deaths, and it did say don't smoke around the baby/mothers AND fathers cut smoking etc... so it has something to do with it.

I was in the doctors this morning, and there was a poster about cot deaths, and it did say don't smoke around the baby/mothers AND fathers cut smoking etc... so it has something to do with it.

 

So how do you explain the fact that Sudden Infant Death Syndrome happens in cases where the parents are Non-smoking health fanatics..? That happened to a couple I know, neither of whom smoked a single fag in their lives, they never allowed anyone to smoke in their house, the woman didn't drink a drop during pregnancy and followed doctor's orders to the letter, both took part in regular exercise... You simply cannot square that with the so-called 'facts' that the medical profession pushes about SIDS.. They are making an attempt to imply that it's parents who smoke that cause SIDS, yet more propaganda, yet more guilt piled onto smokers. The facts simply do not bear things out, the medical profession really has no idea why cot death happens but they continue to imply that they do, and they seem hell-bent on focussing the blame onto parents who smoke...

 

Of course it isn't sensible to smoke around kids, of course it's going to cause health problems for them, but to say that it's a 'major' cause of cot death/SIDS just isn't on, if it was then surely it would pretty much only be the children of smokers it happened to. The facts are that it doesn't and there are MANY other factors involved....

 

^^ Of course it's not the only reason it happens, it's just best not to smoke around them. I didn't say major, I just noticed it in the waiting room. It had a load of other precautions too.

With all due respect Rob, you're only one person though... And yeah, the whole 'stinky clothes/hair' thing is bad, but like I said the majority of Non-Smokers accept it and shrug it off... It's essentially no big deal to put the clothes in the wash or go have a shower to get the bad smell off your hair....

 

erm... yes im 1 person ... so are you! lol

 

the points i made are consistent by non smokers.... especially ex smokers! ex smokers really do now know just how obnoxious their smoke was... ask clare :)

^^ Of course it's not the only reason it happens, it's just best not to smoke around them. I didn't say major, I just noticed it in the waiting room. It had a load of other precautions too.

 

Thing is though, when they put up a poster subconciously linking something to a certain ailment, then most people are just gonna take it at face value because it's a Doctor, and there is still this general assumption people have that doctors cannot possibly be wrong about anything, ever.....

 

It's common sense though really that you don't smoke around a baby.

Sometimes they need to state the obvious for thick people.

erm... yes im 1 person ... so are you! lol

 

the points i made are consistent by non smokers.... especially ex smokers! ex smokers really do now know just how obnoxious their smoke was... ask clare :)

 

Ex-smokers are a bit like 'Born Again Christians' or Evangelists though mate... :lol: They take it just a little too far....

 

We're talking about bars and clubs here, ADULT environments where children should NOT be granted access to (sorry, but I dont believe in these 'family' bars, pubs are not the place for kids, end of story. How psychologically healthy is it for them to actually witness their parents get loaded...?), there are precious few refuges purely for us grown-ups as it is.... The Govt coming along acting the ruddy Nanny wagging its finger and saying 'no, you cant smoke in your local you naughty boys and girls' especially when they have no intentions of following their own self-righteous moral standards at THEIR OWN 'local' is something I find utterly offensive. "Do as we say, not as we do"?? FUKK OFF!!!!! :angry: :angry:

Oh, and if you want another example of just how bloody barmy this whole PC, anti-smoking c**p is actually going, here's one that'll just make you sh!t yourself laughing.....

 

There was at one point a serious debate in the US amongst anti-smoking lobbies that Hollywood films of the 30s, 40s and 50s should actually have scenes in which the protagonists were smoking cigarettes DIGITALLY EDITED TO REMOVE THE CIGARETTES!!!! You couldn't make this sh!t up, seriously..... :lol: :lol:

 

Can anyone seriously imagine Bogie and Bacall without their ciggies...?? Talk about your revisionism....

 

Not only that, but modern film-makers who set films in that period are continually being attacked by these jumped up little tyrants for featuring 'excessive cigarette use".. Excessive?? Bollocks, they're just realistically reflecting the times and a period when just about EVERY ADULT smoked, it was a ruddy recreational hobby.... To not reflect that would simply be denying historical and cultural reality....

Oh, and if you want another example of just how bloody barmy this whole PC, anti-smoking c**p is actually going, here's one that'll just make you sh!t yourself laughing.....

 

There was at one point a serious debate in the US amongst anti-smoking lobbies that Hollywood films of the 30s, 40s and 50s should actually have scenes in which the protagonists were smoking cigarettes DIGITALLY EDITED TO REMOVE THE CIGARETTES!!!! You couldn't make this sh!t up, seriously..... :lol: :lol:

 

Can anyone seriously imagine Bogie and Bacall without their ciggies...?? Talk about your revisionism....

 

Not only that, but modern film-makers who set films in that period are continually being attacked by these jumped up little tyrants for featuring 'excessive cigarette use".. Excessive?? Bollocks, they're just realistically reflecting the times and a period when just about EVERY ADULT smoked, it was a ruddy recreational hobby.... To not reflect that would simply be denying historical and cultural reality....

 

 

id agree with that..

 

i think ex smokers are most vocal because they now realise how offensive smoke is to non smokers..

........ and non smokers arnt?..havnt for years?..

 

im sick and tired of having stinging eyes, irritation in my nose and throat, the stink of tobacco in my hair, nose, clothes and the lingering effect in my house after my clothes have tainted my home.

 

ive always believed that people should be free to indulge in anything they want to... providing a) its legal, and B) it doesnt effect anyone else whom it might offend.

 

FULL TRUTH nothing I can add to that

 

Why should thoughtless selfish smokers get preference over non smokers ?