I can see where you are coming from Deb but I see anti social behaviour a lot too in well heeled middle class families that live in very good accommodation and eat the very best food. In the shopping precinct about a mile from my house all the vandalism, graffitti, hanging around in the street getting drunk and so on is done by a group of kids from a posh school in the area not from council estate kids

Some of the arguments above about parents don't care are not correct. While well founded it actually runs deeper because parenting is something that a society we really mess up.

No one is taught how to be a parent, no one teaches you, especially for a lot of parents which are tend to be more in the lower end of education and social-economic scale to begin with.

Then pressures are put on parents to go out to work...especially now that mums go out to work where 30+ years ago it was the standard for the mother to stay at home thus being able to give the children care. How many children come home to an empty house? To many!

 

The work and parenting education pressures is why I believe that parenting is in fact best done by grandparents who have in the main got some parenting skills and also got more time and certainly a less hecktic way of doing things.

 

. . . and love :heart:

:heart:

 

. . . and understanding :heart:

:heart:

I can see where you are coming from Deb but I see anti social behaviour a lot too in well heeled middle class families that live in very good accommodation and eat the very best food. In the shopping precinct about a mile from my house all the vandalism, graffitti, hanging around in the street getting drunk and so on is done by a group of kids from a posh school in the area not from council estate kids

 

I really think you have totally missed my point Craig. I don't know how that is a response to what I wrote . . . ?

 

I never said a word about 'council house kids' - which is actually a label I particularly despise. Other people had quoted socio-economic facors and I was actually trying to balance that out with emotional/pyschological factors, nothing to do with financial or social 'class' or 'status'.

 

I also actually made the point that even in extremely deprived conditions, positive social values can be upheld. Meaning that anti-social behaviour has very little to do with whatever labels you may use such as 'working class' or 'middle class'.

 

The point I was trying to make was more to do with emotional/pyschological impact on an individual to do with love, understanding, acceptance, having a voice, feeling valued, having a constructive outlet to express themselves, being an individual etc . . .

 

 

 

 

Should I not bother? Do people just not really read my stuff, or do they just read what THEY THINK they've read?

I really think you have totally missed my point Craig. I don't know how that is a response to what I wrote . . . ?

 

I never said a word about 'council house kids' - which is actually a label I particularly despise. Other people had quoted socio-economic facors and I was actually trying to balance that out with emotional/pyschological factors, nothing to do with financial or social 'class' or 'status'.

 

I also actually made the point that even in extremely deprived conditions, positive social values can be upheld. Meaning that anti-social behaviour has very little to do with whatever labels you may use such as 'working class' or 'middle class'.

 

The point I was trying to make was more to do with emotional/pyschological impact on an individual to do with love, understanding, acceptance, having a voice, feeling valued, having a constructive outlet to express themselves, being an individual etc . . .

Should I not bother? Do people just not really read my stuff, or do they just read what THEY THINK they've read?

 

Yeah sorry about that I completely misinterpreted the post you made :blush: :blush:

 

I have nothing against people from council estates as I myself lived on a council estate from birth to well into my teens so I am not biased against people who are from council estates I am very much a working class guy myself even if I now live a middle class lifestyle. I thought I saw in the post a link between poverty and anti social behaviour and misinterpreted things hence my posting about the anti social behaviour of posh kids in my town. I apologise for any offence caused :)

Yeah sorry about that I completely misinterpreted the post you made :blush: :blush:

 

I have nothing against people from council estates as I myself lived on a council estate from birth to well into my teens so I am not biased against people who are from council estates I am very much a working class guy myself even if I now live a middle class lifestyle. I thought I saw in the post a link between poverty and anti social behaviour and misinterpreted things hence my posting about the anti social behaviour of posh kids in my town. I apologise for any offence caused :)

No offence taken mate. I just get a bit *meh* and *pah* and *humpphhh* sometimes, particularly when I feel misunderstood about something important :wub:

 

How can any kind of penal measure have any real effect on someone if that individual is ALREADY disengaged from the source of that penal measure . . . whether it be their family, their wider social group or society in general???

 

 

agreed... :)

No one is taught how to be a parent, no one teaches you, especially for a lot of parents which are tend to be more in the lower end of education and social-economic scale to begin with.

 

actually your own parents teach you how to be parents. when i became a parent it was spooky how i automatically found myself role playing my own parents words. poor parents breed poorer equiped kids.

actually your own parents teach you how to be parents. when i became a parent it was spooky how i automatically found myself role playing my own parents words. poor parents breed poorer equiped kids.

 

 

agreed - I have often caught myself sounding exactly like my mother!

Ive noticed how little respect people have for anyone in society, when i was in year 7 i wouldnt dare swear and threaten a year 11

but now year 7's walk into my lessons swearing and making threats, be racist to teachers/pupils, give death threats, even climb out of windows

and hit pupils/teachers. I can't believe the human race has been become so nasty, so vile. These little kids are monsterous, its not just little kids

though, most kids my age are slags and drink loads of alcohol, many are on drugs and lots smoke. This is terrible, im only 15 but ive noticed

how immature and attrociously kids behave, i hate todays society, a lot of kids honestly need to be in prison by 12.

 

I was just talking about this the other day with a friend. We're only 19 but there's already a huge difference between the way we were at 13 to the way kids are today. It's quite frightening. And it can only get worse unless something's done....but what?

I work in Primary Education and the last few years I've seen an increase in poor behaviour from children as young as 4 and 5 years old. We try to teach then the importance of respect, from respecting themselves, to their peers and to adults but unfortunately without parental support in reinforcing it, the problem remains.

I work in Primary Education and the last few years I've seen an increase in poor behaviour from children as young as 4 and 5 years old. We try to teach then the importance of respect, from respecting themselves, to their peers and to adults but unfortunately without parental support in reinforcing it, the problem remains.

 

 

I completely agree

 

In our school we have noted a realisation in the older kids (10 & 11) that there is one rule in school but that doesn't match their real life.

 

With the trend towards a 'blame' culture ... many people seek to find someone else to blame for their problems ...

 

Many parents now expect school to potty train their child - they expect them to be able to enter our nursery at 3 still in nappies and get a shock when they find out that children need to be potty trained before starting. (so they lie and send them anyway - lack of respect for me!!)

 

Many parents expect the school / teacher to be responsible for many aspects of their child's development.

 

Too often parents tell me they can only get their child to do things with the threat of telling "Mrs ICR" - I am sorry but the behaviour of a child in the home is NOT the teacher's responsibilty - yet I am increasingly involved in supporting parents in getting their child to bed!!

 

We have too many examples on TV of people blaming other - maybe stemming from a lack of self respect?

 

"I can't help my behaviour it is someone elses fault!"

 

 

 

and year 11 citizenship discussion this week....

 

Is is the teacher's responsibilty to control the behaviour of a 16 year old - or is it the responsibilty of the 16 year old to be able to control their own behaviour?

 

 

...apprently most of the group thought it was not their responsibilty to control their own behaviour.

 

 

ok I have wandered off a bit - I think my point is that I feel a blame culture as reduced the respect we have for others - because we can blame them for our lives not being perfect

Edited March 17, 200718 yr by ICR

I completely agree

 

In our school we have noted a realisation in the older kids (10 & 11) that there is one rule in school but that doesn't match their real life.

 

With the trend towards a 'blame' culture ... many people seek to find someone else to blame for their problems ...

 

Many parents now expect school to potty train their child - they expect them to be able to enter our nursery at 3 still in nappies and get a shock when they find out that children need to be potty trained before starting. (so they lie and send them anyway - lack of respect for me!!)

 

Many parents expect the school / teacher to be responsible for many aspects of their child's development.

 

Too often parents tell me they can only get their child to do things with the threat of telling "Mrs ICR" - I am sorry but the behaviour of a child in the home is NOT the teacher's responsibilty - yet I am increasingly involved in supporting parents in getting their child to bed!!

 

We have too many examples on TV of people blaming other - maybe stemming from a lack of self respect?

 

"I can't help my behaviour it is someone elses fault!"

and year 11 citizenship discussion this week....

 

Is is the teacher's responsibilty to control the behaviour of a 16 year old - or is it the responsibilty of the 16 year old to be able to control their own behaviour?

...apprently most of the group thought it was not their responsibilty to control their own behaviour.

ok I have wandered off a bit - I think my point is that I feel a blame culture as reduced the respect we have for others - because we can blame them for our lives not being perfect

 

I don't think you've wandered off at all. I really respect your perspective, and that's a valuable post imo.

 

I don't think you've wandered off at all. I really respect your perspective, and that's a valuable post imo.

 

i agree, your perspective is pertainent to this thread (as threads tend to evolve anyway)

Violence/swearing and lack of respect is down to poor parenting ... lack of money does not produce bad manners ...

whilst the country is wringing its hands worrying about the shocking knife crime engulfing our youth.... do people here think this knife crime is a problem for all... or just for the black community? It does appear that all these crimes are committed by and against black kids...?

 

And if you think it IS a black problem as opposed to a general kids one... why is this?

i hadnt considered it a black only problem, but maybe knife crime is more prevelant in certain areas of social deprivation where the black population might be higher?... or maybe young black gangs in inner cities are emulating their counterparts in america, plenty of urban, r&b and rap often use violence in their lyrics.... perhaps they are using 'gangsta rap' as a strong male figure in their lives?..

While on this subject I would just like to mention I was shocked and appalled at people on my course at University who are black and all from Birmingham or Wolverhampton where people around here go on about both being 'ghettos' and they were talking about things like how they would never go out with a muslim and loads of other skin colours and religions and these people were in their 20's :wacko: I don't get it.. why do people like that complain about racism but then only really hang around with people of their same skin colour or religion when that's just as racist? :blink:

 

And why nearer on the topic why is it that the majority of black people like R&B and Rap music? Do all these people feel they have to fulfill a stereotype or something? In the same way they all have to act like they're from Jamaica even when they don't even have any connections to it at all and have to get involved in Knife and gun culture? I'm not saying all of them do as I KNOW that is not the truth at all but why is that the case with people from certain areas? I'm not being racist or at least I don't intend so if Rob or Scott think this is offensive then please delete.

While on this subject I would just like to mention I was shocked and appalled at people on my course at University who are black and all from Birmingham or Wolverhampton where people around here go on about both being 'ghettos' and they were talking about things like how they would never go out with a muslim and loads of other skin colours and religions and these people were in their 20's :wacko: I don't get it.. why do people like that complain about racism but then only really hang around with people of their same skin colour or religion when that's just as racist? :blink:

 

And why nearer on the topic why is it that the majority of black people like R&B and Rap music? Do all these people feel they have to fulfill a stereotype or something? In the same way they all have to act like they're from Jamaica even when they don't even have any connections to it at all and have to get involved in Knife and gun culture? I'm not saying all of them do as I KNOW that is not the truth at all but why is that the case with people from certain areas? I'm not being racist or at least I don't intend so if Rob or Scott think this is offensive then please delete.

 

 

i dont think you are setting out to be deliberately offensive, i cant see any offence (but im not that toughy!), i think the points you are raising are pertainent to the way this threads evolving... fair do's :)

 

 

the thing i hate more then that ... is WHITE people being all 'ghetto'... trying to be black! thats really pathetic.

While on this subject I would just like to mention I was shocked and appalled at people on my course at University who are black and all from Birmingham or Wolverhampton where people around here go on about both being 'ghettos' and they were talking about things like how they would never go out with a muslim and loads of other skin colours and religions and these people were in their 20's :wacko: I don't get it.. why do people like that complain about racism but then only really hang around with people of their same skin colour or religion when that's just as racist? :blink:

 

And why nearer on the topic why is it that the majority of black people like R&B and Rap music? Do all these people feel they have to fulfill a stereotype or something? In the same way they all have to act like they're from Jamaica even when they don't even have any connections to it at all and have to get involved in Knife and gun culture? I'm not saying all of them do as I KNOW that is not the truth at all but why is that the case with people from certain areas? I'm not being racist or at least I don't intend so if Rob or Scott think this is offensive then please delete.

 

I can partially see where you are coming from but it is just a habit for people of a particular culture to mix together, look at the white expats on the Costa Del Sol, they mix with their own kind and rarely with the locals, when I was in Qatar for a year I hung around with fellow westerners as opposed to arabs, are the blacks doing anything different to that really ?

 

Plus there is thye safety issue, a black guy on his own is a target for racial attacks but a gang of blacks is safety in numbers

Why do blacks use the N word themselves? I saw a clip of Chris Rock doing stand up and he kept saying it. Yet, they probably wouldn't like it if a white person used it.