May 3, 200718 yr Author Hear Hear mate... Thatcher didn't give a flying fukk about Wales or Scotland, which is the main reason why we voted for independent assemblies, and both Scotland and Wales have thrived without the spiteful, evil policies of the Tories, and particularly Thatcherism... In the 80s when we had North sea oil, those Tory b/astards nicked it all, Scotland was the ONLY oil-producing country in the sodding WORLD that was actually worse off for having it.... And they wonder why they got utterly wiped out in that glorious night back in '97 over the border...... It was Thatcher, it was Major, it was the whole damn lot of those evil blue b/astards...... In Wales it was the same story, mining communities destroyed by Thatcher's spiteful crusade against the Working Classes.... <_< You forgot her testing the poll tax on us first, before she brought it in down south :angry: see more Monster Raving loony mp's up here than Tory's :lol:
May 3, 200718 yr You forgot her testing the poll tax on us first, before she brought it in down south :angry: Sh!t man, how the HELL could I forget the fukkin' Poll Tax???? Absolutely mate.... A bloody ENGLISH idea and they used Scotland as a testing ground..... <_< Still, mind you not the first time an English Prime Minister has tested out something toxic on Scotland first is it.....? Churchill and his Anthrax tests....? <_< Only difference being the Poll Tax was a social poison as opposed to a literal one....
May 4, 200718 yr What a fun election in Scotland - nobody has a clue how it will all turn out . I haven't heard any council results yet on the TV because they've been focussing on the software problems with the new system, the number of spoiled ballots and postal votes sent out too late to let the voters return them.
May 4, 200718 yr ...And thanks to Thatcher's destruction of the Unions now we have unscrupulous employers and agencies drafting in cheap migrant, NON-UNIONISED labour from Eastern Europe and exploiting the hell out of them and driving down wages.... Which is doing neither the Migrant nor the indigenous British workers absolutely any good at all.... The only winners - The Capitalists, the bosses, the fukkin' Fat Cats smoking their cigars and drinking Champagne..... <_< <_< <_< Blair has been in power for 10 years he has had plenty of time to repeal the legislations of Maggie/Major but hasn't, he has had a chance to end all of what you have listed, privatisation/union reforms/exploitation of foreign labour but has not and that actually makes him worse as labour are supposed to represent the working class and the unions and the average white van man in the street so the fact that Blair is selling them down the river too makes it worse as labour are meant to be the party of the working class whereas tories have never pretended to be
May 4, 200718 yr What a fun election in Scotland - nobody has a clue how it will all turn out . I haven't heard any council results yet on the TV because they've been focussing on the software problems with the new system, the number of spoiled ballots and postal votes sent out too late to let the voters return them. and quite disgracefully it looks like 100,000 ballot papers will be rejected -_-
May 4, 200718 yr Sh!t man, how the HELL could I forget the fukkin' Poll Tax???? Absolutely mate.... A bloody ENGLISH idea and they used Scotland as a testing ground..... <_< Still, mind you not the first time an English Prime Minister has tested out something toxic on Scotland first is it.....? Churchill and his Anthrax tests....? <_< Only difference being the Poll Tax was a social poison as opposed to a literal one.... I thought in principle that the poll tax was a good idea although it was presented badly Everyone should pay the same for council services regardless of what they earn and I don't see anything wrong with that, why should the middle classes and the rich pay more for council services ? it is only fair everyone pays the same. If you buy a car or an economy class plane ticket or a weekly shop in the supermarket or petrol in the filling station or a widescreen tv or an i pod there is not one tariff for the poor and one tariff for the wealthy everyone pays the same so what is the difference with council services ? I see no problem with the principle of everyone paying the same regardless of disposable income
May 4, 200718 yr Blair has been in power for 10 years he has had plenty of time to repeal the legislations of Maggie/Major but hasn't, he has had a chance to end all of what you have listed, privatisation/union reforms/exploitation of foreign labour but has not and that actually makes him worse as labour are supposed to represent the working class and the unions and the average white van man in the street so the fact that Blair is selling them down the river too makes it worse as labour are meant to be the party of the working class whereas tories have never pretended to be Oh, I certainly dont argue with that... I think I've made my opinions pretty clear on sell-out, crooked, war criminal Tory B-liar and "Nu Labor" (American spelling intentional btw..) often enough, didn't think it necessary to repeat myself..... :lol:
May 4, 200718 yr With all of the things you give as examples, people have a choice - they can shop in more exclusive places, buy two more expensive types of plane seat etc. Come on, even Michael Heseltine could see right away that it wasn't right for a multi-millionaire to pay the same for his Paladian mansion as an OAP in a tiny terrace house.
May 4, 200718 yr I thought in principle that the poll tax was a good idea although it was presented badly Everyone should pay the same for council services regardless of what they earn and I don't see anything wrong with that, why should the middle classes and the rich pay more for council services ? it is only fair everyone pays the same. Nonsense... By that rationale then everyone should pay the same amount of income tax.... You tell me why a pensioner should pay the same Council/Poll Tax as the Beckhams or Alan Sugar.... Talking bollocks mate..... The ONLY fair system for raising funds for local authorities is Local Income Tax - based upon a person's income and ability to pay... I'm really sick of listening to rich people bleating about how 'overtaxed' they are... They're not, they are taxed less in relation to their earnings (ie, in real terms) than an ordinary working class person is - that aint right, and you cannot possibly defend it.... Basing it on property values isn't right either, you can still have a situation where people may have bought a house 30 years ago in London are now seeing property values sky-rocket in London (which some people seem to think is all nice and peachy, but in fact is a total nightmare, I'm just waiting for the bubble to burst and then laugh my ass off when the whole thing contracts..) and are being totally arse-raped by the local authorities over council tax, but they are in fact on a low income... So, what, they should sell their house...? And live where exactly..? A council flat..? And what about people who are just renting a place that just happens to have a high property value...? Average house price in London is over 300 grand ffs.... Nope, the Council Tax system is as fatally flawed as the rates and the poll tax....
May 4, 200718 yr What exactly is going on in Scotland? Have they lost the papers or something? There were two ballot papers, one for Holyrood and one for the local councils. The one for Holyrood had two columns. The left hand one hand just the parties, i.e the 'list' vote, the right hand one had the names of the candidates for the first past the post seat in the voter's constituency. Above the left hand column on that paper were the words "you have 2 votes"......which meant one in each column,but didn't say that. It's possible some people spoiled there paper by crossing 2 in the left hand column. The other possible problem with the left hand column may be that the SNP box also said Vote Alex Salmond for First Minister. Some voters may have thought they could vote for First Minister and the party they wanted. Complications with the right hand column on the Holyrood paper could be confusion with the proportional representation system to be used on the separate second voting paper for council elections. On the council ballot, voters could number all of the candidates in order of preference ( I numbered only 1 -4). Some voters may have put one cross on this paper as they have done in every previous election and numbered the list on the Holyrood paper instead. Those are only a few of the ways I think people could have inadvertently spoiled their vote. Some voters may, of course, have deliberately done it , by for example, adding none of the above, writing comments or other things on the paper. No papers were physically lost as far as we know. The ballot boxes were checked as usual, the contents of one at a time scanned through the machine and the total number of papers shown on the counter, the breakdown was shown on screens as the count was made so that the public could see what was going on, just like a hand count. The problem was that the information from each machine then went to a central data base where the overall calculations for each seat , council seat, and list seat for each constituency were calculated. When that was ready the computer sent the finished info back to the returning officer. There were technical difficulties and many returning officer reluctantly decided to stop the count and restart at midday today. One place isn't starting their count until 3pm. By 5 o'clock this morning, Edinburgh had only declared one seat! The helicopter couldn't fly from some of the isles and the boat carrying the votes from Arran broke down in the Firth of Clyde. I shouldn't laugh, elections are serious , but I just can't help it. Edited May 4, 200718 yr by Baytree
May 4, 200718 yr Nonsense... By that rationale then everyone should pay the same amount of income tax.... You tell me why a pensioner should pay the same Council/Poll Tax as the Beckhams or Alan Sugar.... Talking bollocks mate..... The ONLY fair system for raising funds for local authorities is Local Income Tax - based upon a person's income and ability to pay... I'm really sick of listening to rich people bleating about how 'overtaxed' they are... They're not, they are taxed less in relation to their earnings (ie, in real terms) than an ordinary working class person is - that aint right, and you cannot possibly defend it.... Basing it on property values isn't right either, you can still have a situation where people may have bought a house 30 years ago in London are now seeing property values sky-rocket in London (which some people seem to think is all nice and peachy, but in fact is a total nightmare, I'm just waiting for the bubble to burst and then laugh my ass off when the whole thing contracts..) and are being totally arse-raped by the local authorities over council tax, but they are in fact on a low income... So, what, they should sell their house...? And live where exactly..? A council flat..? Sugar and Beckham still pay the same amount for the consumer products that you mentioned though Scott, they pay the same rate in the supermarket or the high st as the guy in his council flat so I don't see why just because they are successful that they should pay more for services than someone not so, flat rate for everyone is the best way, do you remember what they used to do a few years back with speeding fines where it was related to income ? we had company directors being fines £1500 for speeding and poor people £60, it was absurd and was rightly dropped. The poorest people had their poll tax paid for by the benefits agency anyways, unemployed, disabled, single mothers and so on that was covered by the benefits agency so the very poorest were not clobbered
May 4, 200718 yr The poorest people had their poll tax paid for by the benefits agency anyways, unemployed, disabled, single mothers and so on that was covered by the benefits agency so the very poorest were not clobbered Not working people on LOW incomes though.... The supermarket cashier should not have to pay the same amount as the managing director, simple as... It's just such a typical, selfish, TORY attitude that you're coming out with here, "I'm considerably richer than you, but I don't want to pay my fair share". You earn more, you pay more, simple as... Stop bloody moaning about it, you're hardly skint, so stop trying to make out like you're being hard done by... Comparing council services to consumer products is a ridiculous and totally reductive argument....
May 4, 200718 yr Not working people on LOW incomes though.... The supermarket cashier should not have to pay the same amount as the managing director, simple as... It's just such a typical, selfish, TORY attitude that you're coming out with here, "I'm considerably richer than you, but I don't want to pay my fair share". You earn more, you pay more, simple as... Stop bloody moaning about it, you're hardly skint, so stop trying to make out like you're being hard done by... Comparing council services to consumer products is a ridiculous and totally reductive argument.... I am not wealthy Scott far from it, I pay 40% tax but I am only a couple of grand inside the threshold so that is hardly wealthy mate am just looking it from the principle of the matter as opposed to personal circumstance, I just think the rich are rich because they have worked hard and developed great business ideas etc so should not be penalised and discriminated against for their successes and relating local government taxes to income is in my opinion wrong as it is "soaking the rich" as old Labour used to say, I am not rich I am on middle income
May 4, 200718 yr I am not wealthy Scott far from it, I pay 40% tax but I am only a couple of grand inside the threshold so that is hardly wealthy mate am just looking it from the principle of the matter as opposed to personal circumstance, I just think the rich are rich because they have worked hard and developed great business ideas etc so should not be penalised and discriminated against for their successes and relating local government taxes to income is in my opinion wrong as it is "soaking the rich" as old Labour used to say, I am not rich I am on middle income Well, I would agree that the income tax bands need to be changed when you consider that circumstances are different now than they were a decade ago, but that is a different argument.... Just getting back to your whole council services/consumer products thing for a moment... When you go shopping you can choose to buy supermarket own brands instead of big names, thereby saving money (up to 20%), you can choose to buy a less well-known brand of LCD telly instead of paying the big bucks for Panasonic or Sony, you can choose to fly by Ryanair or Easyjet instead of BA.... There is no choice in Council services though... I live in Camden, if neighbouring Westminster has a lower Council Tax, I cant choose to have my services provided by them can I...?
May 4, 200718 yr i cant quote anyone, nor can i read whats on the far right of the page, i have no lateral spacebar today ...:unsure: the poll tax IS fair........... if everyone had the same income and lived in the same house type in an equally affluent area with equal local amenities.
May 4, 200718 yr i cant quote anyone, nor can i read whats on the far right of the page, i have no lateral spacebar today ...:unsure: the poll tax IS fair........... if everyone had the same income and lived in the same house type in an equally affluent area with equal local amenities. Exactly....
May 4, 200718 yr Author They still haven't decided who has won the election in Scotland, what a shambles, almost as bad as the US election a few years back when Bush won in Florida.
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