Posted October 7, 200717 yr Doctors are preparing to remove the womb of a disabled teenager because her mother fears she will not cope with the complications of adulthood. For the first time in Britain, surgeons are seeking legal approval to carry out a hysterectomy on the 15-year-old girl even though the surgery is not medically needed. The case is likely to provoke an ethical debate about how society looks after the disabled and whether it is ever justified to perform surgery on people with disabilities for social reasons. Alison Thorpe, 45, from Billericay, Essex, has asked surgeons at St John’s hospital in Chelmsford to perform a hysterectomy on her daughter Katie because she says the girl, who has severe cerebral palsy, should not be further distressed by the pain and inconvenience of monthly periods. Is the correct decision? see article here http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/h...icle2603965.ece
October 7, 200717 yr TBH yes. Although I dislike the taking away of individuals rights, this case it seems an act of kindness. Periods are a f**king nightmare when you are healthy and capable of caring for yourself. For this girl they will mean nothing but humiliation for life.
October 7, 200717 yr No…you shouldn’t take away healthy organs if it’s not absolutely necessary!!! And what about the risks and complications that go with an operation like this??? There are pills and injections you can give to take away the menstruation if you want…I have worked with them and I can’t see any reason for an operation if these are used… Tbh….I think this is more a (acceptation) problem of the mother then of the girl in question :( What if she gets problems with her feet next....she doesn't walk so she need them does she???
October 7, 200717 yr No…you shouldn’t take away healthy organs if it’s not absolutely necessary!!! And what about the risks and complications that go with an operation like this??? There are pills and injections you can give to take away the menstruation if you want…I have worked with them and I can’t see any reason for an operation if these are used… Tbh….I think this is more a (acceptation) problem of the mother then of the girl in question :( What if she gets problems with her feet next....she doesn't walk so she need them does she??? I was going to ask if there was medication or anything to control menstruation. Thought there would be. Absolutely vile to consider forcing someone to have MAJOR surgery because YOU think it will benefit someone.
October 7, 200717 yr Periods are a f**king nightmare when you are healthy and capable of caring for yourself I so agree! I saw this young girl and her family on the news tonight. Having seen the severity of her disability, I can understand her mother not wanting her to have to go through having periods. I'm sure she has considered all alternatives to a hysterectomy as it really is a major operation but I really think an alternative, like the mini pill or some other medication, would be better than the trauma of surgery. That said, I'm not an expert so the doctors are the best people to advise her.
October 8, 200717 yr This is a really difficult one tbh.... I can see that the parents are doing it as an act of love for their daughter, but the ethical implications are frankly horrifying, and this sure as hell aint a call that I would like to make.... I mean, Where does it end, where does one draw the line...? Didn't Nazi "doctors" sterilize disabled people because they were seen as genetically inferior...?
October 8, 200717 yr Having seen the family on television this morning, I now believe that the mother is doing the best thing she can for her daughter. Her daughter is immobile which would make the use of the contraceptive pill a risk to thrombosis, and sadly, the fact is, she is never going to live a ‘normal’ life and have children. Her mother isn’t advocating that this would be the best solution for anyone, she’s talking about her own daughters’ situation, and, the fact is, she knows her better than anyone, having looked after her 24/7 for the last 15 years. The young girl suffers ‘indignities’ every day, being doubly incontinent and unable to do anything for herself, so having to suffer periods for the next 30 years, would just add to this. I should add that this isn’t a unique situation, as her decision was supported by another mother who went through the same thing with her own disabled daughter 24 years ago. This girl had the operation.
October 9, 200717 yr It is not up to anyone to play god But dont Doctors "play god" on more or less a daily basis Craig...? They use their skills and knowlege to save the lives of people who would, by all natural laws, be dead, so they DO intervene in the natural order of things in a sense, they DO "play god", and we should all be thankful that they do..... Medical science has prolonged our lives, we have tampered with the natural order of things in a very real sense, what was the average life expectancy a hundred years ago...? Two hundred years ago....? Significantly shorter than it is now..... Is that not "playing god"....? So, for those reasons, I dont accept that particular argument.... The fact that it sets a dangerous precedent however, and the whole ethical issues that it throws up however, is something I think we should all think about.....
October 9, 200717 yr But dont Doctors "play god" on more or less a daily basis Craig...? They use their skills and knowlege to save the lives of people who would, by all natural laws, be dead, so they DO intervene in the natural order of things in a sense, they DO "play god", and we should all be thankful that they do..... Medical science has prolonged our lives, we have tampered with the natural order of things in a very real sense, what was the average life expectancy a hundred years ago...? Two hundred years ago....? Significantly shorter than it is now..... Is that not "playing god"....? So, for those reasons, I dont accept that particular argument.... The fact that it sets a dangerous precedent however, and the whole ethical issues that it throws up however, is something I think we should all think about..... I mean play god in the sense of this situation, while the poor girls quality of life is not what would be wished on even a worst enemy the fact is her condition is not life threatening and while I can sort of understand where the parents are coming from from a compassionate point of view I think this going ahead sets a very very dangerous precedent indeed and would open the floodgates to people with all sorts of disabilities and conditions having god knows what done to them. I remember a case in America a while back of a disabled girl having all sorts of stuff done to her so that she stays a child forever and just don't want to see this sort of thing happen here, playing with nature reminds me immediately of Josef Mengele
October 9, 200717 yr I mean play god in the sense of this situation, while the poor girls quality of life is not what would be wished on even a worst enemy the fact is her condition is not life threatening and while I can sort of understand where the parents are coming from from a compassionate point of view I think this going ahead sets a very very dangerous precedent indeed and would open the floodgates to people with all sorts of disabilities and conditions having god knows what done to them. I remember a case in America a while back of a disabled girl having all sorts of stuff done to her so that she stays a child forever and just don't want to see this sort of thing happen here, playing with nature reminds me immediately of Josef Mengele Yeah, I mentioned Nazis in my post as well mate... The points you're bringing up now are the ethical ones, and ones which I can totally understand and work with... I just feel that the expression "playing god" was over-emotive and a bit unhelpful... We should be concentrating on the ethics here.... I too wonder where the line will be drawn. I work with disabled students at university, and frankly this whole case seriously concerns me, we're in danger of bringing up the whole discredited ideas of Eugenics.....
October 9, 200717 yr where will they draw the line? talk here as if its the state imposing this on the person.... it isnt, its the parents out of an act of love for their child who they are responsable for. i dont see a problem with it in this case. it is a sensible solution.
October 9, 200717 yr where will they draw the line? talk here as if its the state imposing this on the person.... it isnt, its the parents out of an act of love for their child who they are responsable for. I see your point, but to ignore the wider implications and the ethical minefields is rather foolish Rob... This is potentially more than just about one person....
October 9, 200717 yr I see your point, but to ignore the wider implications and the ethical minefields is rather foolish Rob... This is potentially more than just about one person.... i dont think anyone is ignoring the ethics of it, but any individual case should be regarded on its own merits as this one is.
October 9, 200717 yr where will they draw the line? talk here as if its the state imposing this on the person.... it isnt, its the parents out of an act of love for their child who they are responsable for. i dont see a problem with it in this case. it is a sensible solution. But where does it end ? This goes through and the operation is carried out then it enters very dangerous territory in the name of "compassion" ethics have to take priority over compassion however much a family is going through, where does it end ? this will be done to likely hundreds of kids in the name of compassion then adults with disabilities will be carved up and then it will extend to people with diseases and cutting healthy bits out of cancer patients to help ease their pain and so on. No one likes to see a relative suffer course not but ethics have to win in this case and every case over compassion
October 9, 200717 yr But where does it end ? This goes through and the operation is carried out then it enters very dangerous territory in the name of "compassion" ethics have to take priority over compassion however much a family is going through, where does it end ? this will be done to likely hundreds of kids in the name of compassion then adults with disabilities will be carved up and then it will extend to people with diseases and cutting healthy bits out of cancer patients to help ease their pain and so on. No one likes to see a relative suffer course not but ethics have to win in this case and every case over compassion think ive already answered that one :)
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