Fantastically summed up russ

But saying things like

as you did earlier in the thread makes you look so overly anti-muslim and so stereotypical in that respect. You don't hear about muslim men stalking young girls in the community more than "white british" males do you?

 

It just seems like for you "muslim-bashing" is quite fun, and to stop the "your racist" jibes you go "Oh all Catholics are sadists".

 

Quite correct, Russ thinks he's being balanced by chucking in a relatively throwaway comment about Catholicism, but let's put it this way, where has the most instances of child sexual abuse occured - in mosques or in cathlic churches...? I rather think it is overwhelmingly the latter, so to try and vilify and defamate the character of a whole creed of people simply on the basis of an event which may or may not have even taken place a thousand years ago or to explicity imply that all muslims are paedophiles is frankly offensive and erroneous in the extreme, and it was exactly one of the things the Nazis did to poison the German people's minds against the Jews, Hitler and the Nazis implied that Jews were child molestors because of what it said in the Torah about a boy reaching manhood at 13 at his Bar Mitzvah, he twisted this around into implying that all Jews were predatory paedos..... I'm seeing exactly the same thing happen in this case, and I am finding it more and more disturbing to be honest...

 

And how incredibly ironic it is that some of the most balanced views of Islam and Muslims as a race of people are coming from Craig, who is of JEWISH extraction himself......

 

I'm putting these people on official notice, any more openly racist or offensive comments like some of the ones I've been reading and I will start deleting posts, closing topics and issue warnings... I am thorough sick of this forum increasingly becoming a sounding off board for bigots and racists who clearly have a very fractious grasp of what they are wittering on about.... I am totally sick of this "burn the witches" attitude that is being fostered on this forum..... You should all be damn well ashamed of yourselves.....

Or just redirect it to the rebels in Darfur...

 

:lol: :lol:

 

Well put, I'd certainly go along with that idea....

 

While I do on the surface find the idea of a teddy bear causing so much offense rather bizarre the fact is westerners and foreigners going into another country have to respect that country's rules, customs and traditions

 

if you visit a country, especially a particularly strict or sensitive one, its on your head (sometimes literally) to do the homework and make sure you stay on the right side of their culture. the world isnt some playground for rich white people to f**k around in and if the locals dont like you you just bomb them, its real life with real, deeply held beliefs and cultures you are dropping yourself into

 

Its arrogant to judge other cultures based on our owns values and history and the sooner people understand that some thing will always be seen differently the sooner we can find middle ground

 

I may come across like condoning or agreeing with these things, i most certainly do not what i try to do is defend the cultures and beliefs of others when i see the "middle englanders" attacking things they don't understand, I defend any countries right to follow their own legal structure and apply it to residents there, even if wrong, unless the people of that country are oppressed and dont have the ability to change it

 

The rise of islamophobia in this country and the west sickens me at times and as well as anything else it plays right into the hands of extremists who see us as the enemy and make us an even bigger fukkin target, some of the posts in this thread really make me ashamed to be British.

 

 

While I do on the surface find the idea of a teddy bear causing so much offense rather bizarre the fact is westerners and foreigners going into another country have to respect that country's rules, customs and traditions

 

if you visit a country, especially a particularly strict or sensitive one, its on your head (sometimes literally) to do the homework and make sure you stay on the right side of their culture. the world isnt some playground for rich white people to f**k around in and if the locals dont like you you just bomb them, its real life with real, deeply held beliefs and cultures you are dropping yourself into

 

Its arrogant to judge other cultures based on our owns values and history and the sooner people understand that some thing will always be seen differently the sooner we can find middle ground

 

I may come across like condoning or agreeing with these things, i most certainly do not what i try to do is defend the cultures and beliefs of others when i see the "middle englanders" attacking things they don't understand, I defend any countries right to follow their own legal structure and apply it to residents there, even if wrong, unless the people of that country are oppressed and dont have the ability to change it

 

The rise of islamophobia in this country and the west sickens me at times and as well as anything else it plays right into the hands of extremists who see us as the enemy and make us an even bigger fukkin target, some of the posts in this thread really make me ashamed to be British.

 

Absolutely 100% in agreement with you here Craig, I think this is probably one of the most balanced and reasonable posts I have ever read in relation to this whole issue, and one which reflects much of what I believe also....

 

A trite example I know, but those HSBC adverts I think were pretty good at illustrating what you are talking about here... Especially the "thumbs up" one.... :lol: :lol:

 

Thanks, yeah I did a stint living and working out in Qatar a few years back, before I went I did a lot of research and looked into the things I could and could not do out there as it was MY responsibility to make sure I fitted in with the customs and traditions out there and clearly this woman didn't and probably just waltzed into Sudan thinking she owned the place.

 

Like for instance with Qatar the religious police frown VERY heavily on guys wearing shorts above the knee, in the west little englanders might find that bizarre but it is THEIR culture and up to us to respect that so the simple thing to do was wear shorts that were knee length or lower, not up to us to dictate to them what is right and wrong it is up to us to fit in with their cultures and traditions, this woman didn't and she got her fingers burnt, a football yob with shaven head and tattoos can walk around in Benidorm bare chested and wearing union jack shorts but in Qatar he does it he will have an extended time in the company of the police, his tough $h!t, up to him to learn the rules and customs of the area

 

Just like I expect people coming into this country to respect OUR culture so I expect us going to other countries to respect theirs

Quite correct, Russ thinks he's being balanced by chucking in a relatively throwaway comment about Catholicism, but let's put it this way, where has the most instances of child sexual abuse occured - in mosques or in cathlic churches...? I rather think it is overwhelmingly the latter, so to try and vilify and defamate the character of a whole creed of people simply on the basis of an event which may or may not have even taken place a thousand years ago or to explicity imply that all muslims are paedophiles is frankly offensive and erroneous in the extreme, and it was exactly one of the things the Nazis did to poison the German people's minds against the Jews, Hitler and the Nazis implied that Jews were child molestors

 

I'm putting these people on official notice, any more openly racist or offensive comments like some of the ones I've been reading and I will start deleting posts, closing topics and issue warnings... I am thorough sick of this forum increasingly becoming a sounding off board for bigots and racists who clearly have a very fractious grasp of what they are wittering on about.... I am totally sick of this "burn the witches" attitude that is being fostered on this forum..... You should all be damn well ashamed of yourselves.....

 

 

Oh Scott, take your big head out of your ass for once, eh? And realise that YOU are the person on these boards who makes the most derogatory, inflammatory remarks simply because, in your eyes, you CAN. Well, Mr - moderator or no moderator, we've all of us stood by AGHAST at some of the bile you've spewed to not one but MANY posters on Buzzjack and said, shamefully, nothing. It's time you realised that you are not above criticism, not above rules and not above anyone else here. Don't you think?

 

You will absolutely NOT put me on any kind of 'official notice' - OK? There have been NO racist comments here - I suggest you take your little blinkers off and READ this thread - if you can see that far down from that high horse.

 

As for you being 'thoroughly sick' of this forum becomeing a sounding borad for bigots and racists (how DARE you by the way) - don't you mean you are 'thoroughly sick' with this board being inhabited by people with equal, or higher, intelligence as yourself, who simply argue BACK at you? Something I've noticed over the years,m you simply are NOT able to tolerate or accept?

 

You will ONLY delete posts that are openly racist - NONE of the posts here have been.

 

You will ONLY close topics if they descend to mindless racism - NONE have.

 

You will ONLY issue, I have to conceal my mirth here, 'warnings' (YOU giving out warnings for offensive behaviour?!?!?!? You couldn't make it up, really you couldn't) if the poster displays anything that contravenes the Buzzjack codes of conduct which, quite promptly, I suggest you read - thoroughly. NOBODY here has - except you, on quite a few occasions, too.

 

I suggest once again, you actually READ through this thread - at NO POINT was it suggested, as you ridiculously claim, that all Muslims were paedophiles - quote me the part where it does, please do - it WAS suggested, however, that it was strange that such a draconiam moral religion as Islam was led by a prophet who liked orgies with nine year old girls. Surely some hypocrisy there, even in your clouded judgement of the whole affair? As for likening stating this what the Nazis did - grow up Scott - you're being highly offensive - and making yourself out to be a bit silly, too.

 

I also suggest it's YOU, Scott whoi has a, I quote, "very fractious grasp of what they are wittering on about" - as it always appears you have little or no understanding of the other side of any argument but your own. You display this with increasingly fervent vigour on virtually every thread you choose to shout at or belittle people on.

 

And it's YOU who should be, ahem, "damned well ashamed of yourself" for your treatment of the younger, (in your eyes) less knowledgeable, people on these boards. Strange, isn't it, that when someone your age stands up to you you natter on about us being Nazi-like, defamatory, offensive and abusive. I sense some seriouis Freudian projection going on here, myself.......

As (Probably) the youngest member here, I think should that i have never read any of Scott's (Or Russ for that matter) posts that have been directly Rascist. But i do think that often, members on here (And that's practicly everyone) are offensive to other members, be it at the point in question or be it to get there point across to the rest of the board. I also think that giving a warning to Russ (Based on this thread Only) is wrong, as I can see nothing he has posted that has been Racist or to offenive.

I also think that giving a warning to Russ (Based on this thread Only) is wrong, as I can see nothing he has posted that has been Racist or to offenive.

 

thanks Jonny - however, Chairman Scott isn't only targeting me - it's basically anyone who disagrees with him - who will automatically be labelled 'racist', 'Nazis', 'abusive' or 'inflammatory'... so it's for everyone, although his last post was a thinly disguised threat against me and my refusal to be patronised or belittled by him.

 

What I suggested about the prophet is there for all to read - he revelled in orgies, and had a particular kink (and love) for a nine year old girl (he married on for chrissakes!). I can only assume Chaiman Scott has little or no actual knowledge of the argument he's involved in but just likes the sight of his own posts on here, regardless of fact or not.

I'm putting these people on official notice, any more openly racist or offensive comments like some of the ones I've been reading and I will start deleting posts, closing topics and issue warnings... I am thorough sick of this forum increasingly becoming a sounding off board for bigots and racists who clearly have a very fractious grasp of what they are wittering on about.... I am totally sick of this "burn the witches" attitude that is being fostered on this forum..... You should all be damn well ashamed of yourselves.....

 

All religions seeks to impose a 'received text or wisdom' on to us, telling us how we should think and behave. Not that there is much wrong with the ten commandments (although I imagine the one about adultery would cause problems to more than a few British MPs!)

 

Most of the rules were made centuries ago and fundamentalists (in all religions) seem reluctant to change them in the face of progress or science. We may all look back and laugh at the problems that Copernicus had in the 16th century trying to get the Church to accept that the earth revolved around the sun but similar problems still exist today. (Darwin, women priests, etc).

 

First of all let me say that I have no objection to any adult person practicing his or her religion of choice in private. It is when it is aired in public, it involves children or is given some special kind of reverence or place in society that I feel I must object.

 

Each religion is just like a club or society that like minded people can join. Each professes to worship the one true God and yet God seems to have given them all a different set of rules. Catholics don't allow birth control, strict Baptists don't allow televisions, Methodists don't allow drinking alcohol (no wonder I'm a lapsed Methodist!) and Protestants won't allow divorcees to remarry in church, etc, etc. In the Middle East, anyone committing adultery or homosexual acts gets stoned.

 

If you don't like the rules of the club you are in then just start a new club and try to dissolve the old one as Henry VIII did when the Pope refused him a divorce. Strange how this one act of selfishness resulted in so many deaths, as Protestants and Catholics fought each other in the next 450 yrs. God seems to take some pretty long lunch breaks.

 

In reality of course, all the rules of the club are man made and mostly are made to control other men. In Islam, you are apparently guaranteed a place in heaven if you become a suicide bomber. Just in case anyone should disagree with this rule or raise common sense objections to whether or not there is a God, then they seem to have another rule to eliminate any opposition entirely:

 

'Qur'an 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

 

Religion has been responsible for most of the wars in history and sadly it shows all the signs of doing so again in the future. To those that indulge in it, religion is very much like a dangerous drug - the more you take then the more you get hooked on it. So the last thing you would want to do would be to get your child hooked on it - would you??? Sadly of course, religious people do just that. Imprint it on an impressionable mind that has no choice in the matter.

 

Hence religion should not be mentioned to children and it has no place in school (except in the general knowledge context and the historical context of who killed who). Therefore there would be no religious dress code problems in school and no PC Dress Police to make a fuss about it. When the children become adults at 18 they can make their own (non-prejudiced) minds up as to the value of it.

 

So while I rarely agree with the French (I'm joking in case anyone thinks I'm having a dig at our neighbours over the Channel), their laws keeping religion out of school and well apart from government seem to make a lot of sense. If religion stays private then the country can discuss and make laws based on current circumstances and common sense rather than some arguing for 'Christian values' and some arguing for 'Sharia Law'.

 

If you think my viewpoint is "Racist" then I'm utterly offended by YOU and your left wing Political correct attitude that stifles debate and common sense, Scott..

 

My best friend is of Afro-Caribbean origin and two of my best mates at work are Muslims. But I have a huge problem with ANY type of Religious Fundamentalism in ANY religion which is lacking in decency, tolerance & common sense.

 

http://www.comedyonline.co.uk/comedy-images/dave-allen.jpg

"Good night & may your God go with you" Dave Allen (1937-2005)

 

if you visit a country, especially a particularly strict or sensitive one, its on your head (sometimes literally) to do the homework and make sure you stay on the right side of their culture. the world isnt some playground for rich white people to f**k around in and if the locals dont like you you just bomb them, its real life with real, deeply held beliefs and cultures you are dropping yourself into

 

Its arrogant to judge other cultures based on our owns values and history and the sooner people understand that some thing will always be seen differently the sooner we can find middle ground

 

 

exactly!!

 

And if this teacher had done even the minimum research into Islam she would have known her actions would cause offence.

 

(btw Craig - the difference between children and teddy bears is the teddy is an inanimate object, is like making a picture or a statue, we think teddy bears are cute because that is our culture)

She didnt do any actions to cause offence ffs - how many times do you people need telling?

And you think this justifies them marching on the streets with swords demanding she is shot?

Edited December 2, 200717 yr by JamesP

She didnt do any actions to cause offence ffs - how many times do you people need telling?

And you think this justifies them marching on the streets with swords demanding she is shot?

 

It's their culture ffs :manson: she should have known and researched their culture

 

If someone goes to Singapore and drops gum on the street and gets jailed would you say "its only gum ffs who cares, no offence caused" you probably would but it is THEIR law's and when someone is in another country they have to abide by that country's laws, English law and tradition means bugger all in someone else's territory

 

You would probably say a guy wearing very short shorts in Qatar is no big deal but tough $h!t its their rules

She didnt do any actions to cause offence ffs - how many times do you people need telling?

And you think this justifies them marching on the streets with swords demanding she is shot?

 

 

I am sorry but yes she did.

 

...whilst their reactions may be extreme, granted, the naming of an inanimate object after the prophet is offensive in Islam.

SHE didn't name the bear though, that's my point.

Fair enough she should have researched the culture but ive had enough of this c**p that the sudanese were in the right.

She went over to help people less fortunate than us and ended up in this mess, ive seriously had enough.

SHE didn't name the bear though, that's my point.

Fair enough she should have researched the culture but ive had enough of this c**p that the sudanese were in the right.

She went over to help people less fortunate than us and ended up in this mess, ive seriously had enough.

 

Ok let me explain..... she is the teacher .... she is the one in charge in the classroom not the children.

 

If one of the little angels in my care wanted to name a teddy t*** I would steer them to a different name ..... this is what she should have done.

 

I am NOT saying I agree with the Sudanese reactions - but she has to take some responsibility for her actions.

 

Ok let me explain..... she is the teacher .... she is the one in charge in the classroom not the children.

 

If one of the little angels in my care wanted to name a teddy t*** I would steer them to a different name ..... this is what she should have done.

 

I am NOT saying I agree with the Sudanese reactions - but she has to take some responsibility for her actions.

That's a bit of a silly point really. There's a difference between explaining to a group of seven-year-olds that they can't use an obscene name and explaining to a child that they can't use his own name for a teddy bear.

While I do on the surface find the idea of a teddy bear causing so much offense rather bizarre the fact is westerners and foreigners going into another country have to respect that country's rules, customs and traditions

 

if you visit a country, especially a particularly strict or sensitive one, its on your head (sometimes literally) to do the homework and make sure you stay on the right side of their culture. the world isnt some playground for rich white people to f**k around in and if the locals dont like you you just bomb them, its real life with real, deeply held beliefs and cultures you are dropping yourself into

 

Its arrogant to judge other cultures based on our owns values and history and the sooner people understand that some thing will always be seen differently the sooner we can find middle ground

 

I may come across like condoning or agreeing with these things, i most certainly do not what i try to do is defend the cultures and beliefs of others when i see the "middle englanders" attacking things they don't understand, I defend any countries right to follow their own legal structure and apply it to residents there, even if wrong, unless the people of that country are oppressed and dont have the ability to change it

 

The rise of islamophobia in this country and the west sickens me at times and as well as anything else it plays right into the hands of extremists who see us as the enemy and make us an even bigger fukkin target, some of the posts in this thread really make me ashamed to be British.

 

 

Thanks, yeah I did a stint living and working out in Qatar a few years back, before I went I did a lot of research and looked into the things I could and could not do out there as it was MY responsibility to make sure I fitted in with the customs and traditions out there and clearly this woman didn't and probably just waltzed into Sudan thinking she owned the place.

 

Like for instance with Qatar the religious police frown VERY heavily on guys wearing shorts above the knee, in the west little englanders might find that bizarre but it is THEIR culture and up to us to respect that so the simple thing to do was wear shorts that were knee length or lower, not up to us to dictate to them what is right and wrong it is up to us to fit in with their cultures and traditions, this woman didn't and she got her fingers burnt, a football yob with shaven head and tattoos can walk around in Benidorm bare chested and wearing union jack shorts but in Qatar he does it he will have an extended time in the company of the police, his tough $h!t, up to him to learn the rules and customs of the area

 

Just like I expect people coming into this country to respect OUR culture so I expect us going to other countries to respect theirs

 

I agree with almost everything you say here. Your example of the dress code is a good one. I've travelled to various Muslim countries and have always made sure I know what I can and cannot wear.

 

But most people do know that many Muslim countries have a conservative dress-code by our standards. If they don't know, they certainly should. Too many people do indeed expect to be able to behave abroad in the same way they would behave here.

 

However, your comments suggest that you didn't realise - even with your experience in Qatar - that naming a teddy bear Muhammad would cause offence. I'm sure the teacher in question made sure she dressed according to the law and avoided alcohol but it didn't occur to her that she should be careful in choosing a name for a teddy bear.

 

As it is, the whole episode has only served to cause even more damage to the image of Islam abroad. Most Muslims I have met have been very friendly people so my heart always sinks when stories like this come up.

That's a bit of a silly point really. There's a difference between explaining to a group of seven-year-olds that they can't use an obscene name and explaining to a child that they can't use his own name for a teddy bear.

 

silly?

 

There is only a difference in our culture - it seems there isn't much difference in Sudanese culture.

 

I am a teacher and teach a significant number of muslim children and have made a point of finding out about Islam.

Even though I teach in a Church of England school I see no reason why respect cannot be shown for all beliefs. (We have Buhdist and Hindu children too and I know enough about these to avoid offence too)

But even with my limited knowlegde of Islam I know that an inanimate object representing the prophet can be offensive.

 

 

A little respect goes a long way and works both ways - I have only ever been spoken to and treated with the greatest respect by muslim parents.

Oh Scott, take your big head out of your ass for once, eh? And realise that YOU are the person on these boards who makes the most derogatory, inflammatory remarks simply because, in your eyes, you CAN. Well, Mr - moderator or no moderator, we've all of us stood by AGHAST at some of the bile you've spewed to not one but MANY posters on Buzzjack and said, shamefully, nothing. It's time you realised that you are not above criticism, not above rules and not above anyone else here. Don't you think?

 

You will absolutely NOT put me on any kind of 'official notice' - OK? There have been NO racist comments here - I suggest you take your little blinkers off and READ this thread - if you can see that far down from that high horse.

 

As for you being 'thoroughly sick' of this forum becomeing a sounding borad for bigots and racists (how DARE you by the way) - don't you mean you are 'thoroughly sick' with this board being inhabited by people with equal, or higher, intelligence as yourself, who simply argue BACK at you? Something I've noticed over the years,m you simply are NOT able to tolerate or accept?

 

You will ONLY delete posts that are openly racist - NONE of the posts here have been.

 

You will ONLY close topics if they descend to mindless racism - NONE have.

 

You will ONLY issue, I have to conceal my mirth here, 'warnings' (YOU giving out warnings for offensive behaviour?!?!?!? You couldn't make it up, really you couldn't) if the poster displays anything that contravenes the Buzzjack codes of conduct which, quite promptly, I suggest you read - thoroughly. NOBODY here has - except you, on quite a few occasions, too.

 

I suggest once again, you actually READ through this thread - at NO POINT was it suggested, as you ridiculously claim, that all Muslims were paedophiles - quote me the part where it does, please do - it WAS suggested, however, that it was strange that such a draconiam moral religion as Islam was led by a prophet who liked orgies with nine year old girls. Surely some hypocrisy there, even in your clouded judgement of the whole affair? As for likening stating this what the Nazis did - grow up Scott - you're being highly offensive - and making yourself out to be a bit silly, too.

 

I also suggest it's YOU, Scott whoi has a, I quote, "very fractious grasp of what they are wittering on about" - as it always appears you have little or no understanding of the other side of any argument but your own. You display this with increasingly fervent vigour on virtually every thread you choose to shout at or belittle people on.

 

And it's YOU who should be, ahem, "damned well ashamed of yourself" for your treatment of the younger, (in your eyes) less knowledgeable, people on these boards. Strange, isn't it, that when someone your age stands up to you you natter on about us being Nazi-like, defamatory, offensive and abusive. I sense some seriouis Freudian projection going on here, myself.......

 

 

sorry scott, but i think russ is right here.