We can perhaps keep the buildings, turn them into museums or nightclubs or summat.... :lol: As for the ideology - consign to the rubbish heap of history.. All of it.....

 

As far as pure architecture goes as well, a temple is a quite beautiful piece of work too on purely aesthetic grounds.... Or perhaps you dont like the Taj Mahal either....

 

 

Do you always nitpick to suit you?

Do you always nitpick to suit you?

Well, you were the one who started to talk about the architecture.... :P :lol: I was merely running with it....

Well, you were the one who started to talk about the architecture.... :P :lol: I was merely running with it....

 

:lol: :lol:

 

Sorry my bad. But to answer your question then its pretty but not as Gothic looking as say a Church :P If we're doing things like this over a church I'd chose a really old Gothic Castle.

Then so be it... As I've already pointed out, it AINT our church, it aint English, it aint Scottish, Welsh or Irish, it's as 'foreign' as Islam, because they both originate from the same place - the Middle East....

 

"England" (whatever that means anyway....) existed for thousands of years quite happily without Christianity, it can do so again....

 

bollox.... its been in this country longer then many of US....

 

after 1500 years IT IS OUR RELIGION.

 

and where do you think paganism came from?.. oh and which of the many factions is 'ours'?..

Then so be it... As I've already pointed out, it AINT our church, it aint English, it aint Scottish, Welsh or Irish, it's as 'foreign' as Islam, because they both originate from the same place - the Middle East....

 

"England" (whatever that means anyway....) existed for thousands of years quite happily without Christianity, it can do so again....

 

'place of the angles'.... is what it means

 

tbh i think your notion of ripping the church out of our society is the biggest load of utter c**p ive ever seen posted here, or anywhere...im surprised that someone whos supposed to be intelligent could make such a stupid, reactionary, unfeasible remark.

 

dunno how you are going to justify such an unsupportable idiotic notion.

'place of the angles'.... is what it means

 

tbh i think your notion of ripping the church out of our society is the biggest load of utter c**p ive ever seen posted here, or anywhere...im surprised that someone whos supposed to be intelligent could make such a stupid, reactionary, unfeasible remark.

 

dunno how you are going to justify such an unsupportable idiotic notion.

 

I totally agree.

 

At the moment in my local town, the main story is about an ongoing trial (so it would be improper to give away too many details, although I quite literally know friends of the family of the 15 year old victim).

 

Last year a 15 year old caucasian schoolboy was attacked by a group of 7 Asians (5 Men & 2 under the age of 18, all of Islamic religious denomination) in the grounds of a local school. The victim was left and remains permanently brain damaged as a result of several blows to the head with the use of a hammer.

 

The fact is so far the British media has NOT made this a high profile story, for fear of stirring up racial hatred, although the fact that the victim's father works for a Christian God, tells you something.

 

Let's just say, if the verdict goes the way the prosecution wants (especially today after the revelation that the attack was captured on mobile phone), then I'd imagine a pretty major story will keep it off the front page of most national newspapers.

 

Just imagine if 7 Christian Caucasians brutally attacked a Muslim child at school. It would be front page news and one of the main stories on BBC & ITV news programmes, and imagine the outcry from the Islamic community in the UK.

 

Fact: In a recent opinion poll using a sample of 5000; 28% of British Muslims would like to adopt Sharia Law. That is incredibly scary. Maybe Scott would rather have a law that treats females as property, and thinks all other religious beliefs and all homosexuals should be executed/eradicated?

 

I'd recommend reading a brilliant book:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/10/A_Thousand_Splendid_Suns.gif

The author is from Afganistan

 

 

 

But, whilst there are left wing apologists like Scott around, who think everything America and it's apologists & christian caucasian groups/people do is bad, or accuse people of being racist for stating the bleeding obvious and everyone else who does not fit that description should be excused/forgiven...... instead of having an intelligent debate (ie. on Immigration - according to the EU England is now the most crowded populace in Europe, having overtaken the Netherlands, due to mass immigration mainly from Eastern Europeans; Radio 1 "We wont play Morrissey's new single because we don't approve of what he said in the NME", yet the happily A List Soulja Boys vile misogynistic track for the 8th week running) for fear of being shown up for being left wing political correct hypocrites.

 

No wonder Britain is being dumbed down, with Britain's education levels tumbling down the World tables faster than a McFly single (1987: 2nd; 2006: 26th), but hey education must be better in the UK, because GCSE & A Level results set the record for the umpteenth year running. Which is remarkable considering the independent (ie. Not manipulated by the government moving the goal posts) standard 11+ test (that has been in place as a source of measurement since 1950) on English & Basic Mathematics shows at that age our 11 year olds going to Secondary school are at their poorest level since 1993. :rolleyes: Because children are being trained to do things and pass exams, not think for themselves, look at the blatant manipulation and subsequent results of the last series of Big Brother & X Factor for proof. George Orwell was right about his concept in the novel 1984, he just got the year wrong.

No it should not be allowed.

 

This is England/United Kingdom, incase anyone hasn't noticed. Multicultural society or not, it's kind of sticking to what England is all about. Church Of England = Christianity, yet we're not all banging on about religion of it all. And look at where religion has got most of the Far East Countries, in war and turmoil.

 

 

It's hard for me to explain it, it's a hard subject. :lol:

and where do you think paganism came from?..

 

Not from fukkin Christianity that's for sure.... Paganism predates Christianity by about, ohhh, lemme see, a good five THOUSAND years or so, probably more....

 

 

'place of the angles'.... is what it means

 

tbh i think your notion of ripping the church out of our society is the biggest load of utter c**p ive ever seen posted here, or anywhere...im surprised that someone whos supposed to be intelligent could make such a stupid, reactionary, unfeasible remark.

 

dunno how you are going to justify such an unsupportable idiotic notion.

 

What's unsupportable about it..? I just gave examples of THREE non-religious philosophies that we could adopt instead of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, et al... YOU are hyporcrite for defending an ideology you dont even believe in ffs.... You're quick to agree with Richard Dawkins and other anti-religious commentators on the one hand, then you come on here and start a defence of our "Christian Heritage". Make up your fukkin' mind.

Fact: In a recent opinion poll using a sample of 5000; 28% of British Muslims would like to adopt Sharia Law. That is incredibly scary. Maybe Scott would rather have a law that treats females as property, and thinks all other religious beliefs and all homosexuals should be executed/eradicated?

 

Nice, big rant TiP, and again TOTALLY MISSING MY POINT... Where, just where, exactly, have I ever made an argument in favour of Sharia Law....? Dont be so bloody stupid... I'm actually arguing against any and ALL religious dogmas if YOU ACTUALLY BLOODY WELL PAID ATTENTION!!!!!! But, on the other hand, I aint gonna tolerate the practiotioners of ONE particular religion to be targeted by the Govt or the media, smacks ever so slightly of Chinese Govt vs Falun Gong that does..... I dont like Catholicism as an ideology or as a religion, and would never make an argument in favour of it (I was born a Catholic, so I KNOW only too well how sh!t it is...), but I'm very much of the opinion that the way the British establishment treated Irish Catholics throughout history has been indefensible and disgusting, and no bloody wonder the IRA was formed as a reaction to that oppression, whether you agree with the methods or not (which I personally did not I wish to stress, but I certainly saw the reasons for it..), it was a reaction to injustice and imperialism.... History is repeating itself now, the July 7th attacks were a REACTION to the Iraq war and you're either an idiot, or Tony Blair, if you cant see the simple facts....

 

No act of Terrorism has occurred without at least ONE precursor event.. ALL Terrorist groups act in reaction to a perceived injustice or a perceived oppression....

 

The IRA - a REACTION to British imperialism

PLO - a REACTION to zionist aggression, violence and theft of land from Palestinian Arabs

Hamas - Ditto

Al Qaeda - a REACTION to American military presence on Islamic land, and the first Gulf Oil War in 1991

ANC - a REACTION to the vile Apartheid regime (actually, the ANC is the one "terrorist" organisation I wholeheartedly support without reservations..)

Chechen Rebels - a REACTION to having the c**p bombed out of them by Vlad "the impaler" Putin who reneged on a promise of self-determination made to the Chechen people by Boris Yeltsin

Leonard Peltier - a Native American who REACTED to the hundreds of years of oppression, murder, dispossession and marginalisation of his people (actually, make that TWO "terrorists" that I agree 100% with....)

 

You may all find this truth unpalatable, but nevertheless, truth it is..... Live with it...

Fact: In a recent opinion poll using a sample of 5000; 28% of British Muslims would like to adopt Sharia Law. That is incredibly scary. Maybe Scott would rather have a law that treats females as property, and thinks all other religious beliefs and all homosexuals should be executed/eradicated?

 

Yeah, and opinion polls are really reliable arent they mate...? Opinion polls told us that Hillary Clinton didn't have a chance of winning in New Hampshire, Opinion Polls told us that Labour would win the '92 election as well... :lol: :lol: Both turned out to be UTTER c**p!!! Opinion Polls dont mean sh!t.... I personally dont know a single muslim who would ever want Sharia Law... Mainly because quite a few got the hell out of countries that practice that sh!t as soon as they were able.... I rather suspect that most of these morons who spoke in favour of it, dont actually really know what it is, and they're probably young idiots who think they're acting all 'rebellious' or whatever.... -_-

 

A muslim guy I know at uni who's studying Politics basically said this - "Sharia is un-Islamic. Sharia is used by a state to control the people..". He's from Sudan...

Not from fukkin Christianity that's for sure.... Paganism predates Christianity by about, ohhh, lemme see, a good five THOUSAND years or so, probably more....

 

thats not what i meant :)

 

i was refering to the hundereds of different branches of paganism that originated in europe.

What's unsupportable about it..? I just gave examples of THREE non-religious philosophies that we could adopt instead of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, et al... YOU are hyporcrite for defending an ideology you dont even believe in ffs.... You're quick to agree with Richard Dawkins and other anti-religious commentators on the one hand, then you come on here and start a defence of our "Christian Heritage". Make up your fukkin' mind.

 

wtf are you on about?

 

FACTS ARE WETHER WE/I LIKE IT OR NOT THIS COUNTRY ADOPTED CHRISTIANITY IN THE 6TH CENTUARY...that predates most of our ancestory.

 

im NOT defending the ideology, im defending the churches historical role in our culture, our heritage, this is a FACT.

 

to remove the church as you suggest from society would result in utter chaos. the church has its hand in every corner of our society, from parliament, through law, to charities helping the homeless and battered women.... and YOU advocate removing the church from society!!!!! UTTERLY STUPID.

No act of Terrorism has occurred without at least ONE precursor event.. ALL Terrorist groups act in reaction to a perceived injustice or a perceived oppression....

 

So what exactly did Scotland do to deserve a Jeep being driven into Glasgow Airport.

 

Which for the record is Scotlands Most multicultural City.

 

and the Scottish Gvmnt ENCOURAGE Scotland to be Multicultural.

PS. Scott,

 

Al Qaeda was formed August 11, 1988 BEFORE the first Gulf War as the Mujahideen fighting the Soviets and Marxist Afghan government in Afghanistan. Where ex-US secret security sources have since alledged they were helped with funding and resource by the US government.

 

It was only after Bin Laden offered the services of his mujahedeen to King Fahd to protect Saudi Arabia from the Iraqi army and the Saudi monarch refused bin Laden's offer, opting instead to allow U.S. and allied forces to deploy on Saudi territory that Bin Laden changed his tune.

 

After speaking publicly against the Saudi government for harbouring American troops, he was quickly forced into exile to Sudan and his Saudi citizenship was revoked.

 

Al Qaeda's first terrorist attack was Nov 5th 1990: Assassination of Meir Kahane head of Israel's Koch party and founder of the American vigilante group the Jewish Defense League in a Manhattan, New York hotel lobby.

 

No doubt you come back and say my facts are lies planted by the Western media / Government authorities into the World and internet domain.....

 

 

 

 

..... Anyway back on topic...

 

Mosque's plan to broadcast call to prayer from loudspeaker 'will create Muslim ghetto'

BBC News England at 10:14am, 14th January 2008

 

Muslim elders at an Oxford mosque have said they intend to push ahead with plans to broadcast a call to prayer from a loudspeaker despite fierce opposition.

 

Local residents have attacked the idea saying it would disrupt the peace and turn the area into a 'Muslim ghetto'.

 

But the elders said they still intend to seek planning permission to install the loudspeaker.

If granted, they would broadcast a two-minute long call three times a day from the Central Mosque, where up to 700 people gather to worship every Friday.

 

The idea has gained support from the Bishop of Oxford, the Rt Rev John Pritchard, who last week said those in opposition to the idea should "relax" and "enjoy community diversity".

 

But residents, who packed out a council meeting last month to signal their outrage, remain set against the plan which they say is an "un-neighbourly intrusion".

They said they would rally to block the proposal when it is submitted to the council in nine months time, when construction on the mosque is complete.

 

Dr Allan Chapman, 61, who lives near the building, said: "The response against this has been incredible, we have been indundated with calls ranging from stiff upper lip outrage to sheer screaming fury.

"The universal message is what an utter cheek to inflict this on a non-Muslim area of Oxford. If this application goes forward then a large number of angry people are poised to form an opposition to it."

Dr Chapman added the broadcast is not to comparable to the ringing of church bells because: "They are just a signal. The Muslim call is a theological statement."

 

Residents have said the main objection is the loud amplification of the broadcast.

Elizabeth Mills, 56, said: "We don't have a problem with the Imam climbing to the top of the minaret and shouting.

"But we object to electronic amplification. The Bishop of Oxford might say it's ok but he doesn't have to listen to it."

 

Martin Stott, 53, a member of the Oxford Oratory, added: "This is not an anti-Muslim thing, it is more about community cohesion."

 

A spokesman for the Central Mosque said that sounding the call to prayer is a traditional part of the religion.

Sadar Rana, 68, said: "Building work will take another nine months to a year, it is then that we plan to make an application to the council.

 

"We want to fix a loudspeak to our minaret to broadcast our call to prayer. We would like to have it three times a day but if that is not accepted, then we would like to have it at least on Fridays.

"We do not need the volume to be loud but we want to have the call in some form because it's our tradition."

 

PS. Scott,

 

Al Qaeda was formed August 11, 1988 BEFORE the first Gulf War as the Mujahideen fighting the Soviets and Marxist Afghan government in Afghanistan. Where ex-US secret security sources have since alledged they were helped with funding and resource by the US government.

 

It was only after Bin Laden offered the services of his mujahedeen to King Fahd to protect Saudi Arabia from the Iraqi army and the Saudi monarch refused bin Laden's offer, opting instead to allow U.S. and allied forces to deploy on Saudi territory that Bin Laden changed his tune.

 

After speaking publicly against the Saudi government for harbouring American troops, he was quickly forced into exile to Sudan and his Saudi citizenship was revoked.

 

Al Qaeda's first terrorist attack was Nov 5th 1990: Assassination of Meir Kahane head of Israel's Koch party and founder of the American vigilante group the Jewish Defense League in a Manhattan, New York hotel lobby.

 

No doubt you come back and say my facts are lies planted by the Western media / Government authorities into the World and internet domain.....

 

Nah, I actually KNEW that, but as you pointed out, it was the MUJAHADEEN, not Al Qaeda, a completely different organisation fighting a different cause (and with the blessing of the West).... And there is absolutely no "alleged" about it, the CIA trained and funded Bin Laden against the Soviet army because it was expedient for them to do so (yeah, he could murder as many Russian teenage conscripts as he wanted it seems... ) Which kinda made things a lot worse for the Americans when they decided to stab him in the back and offer to take out Iraqi troops in Kuwait, as well as establish military bases in Saudi Arabia... The facts are the Reagan/Bush administration were up to their necks in their involvment with Bin Laden and the Saudi Royals, which is something the western media seeks to play down, these facts only really came to the surface when the likes of Mike Moore and George Galloway started shouting it from the rooftops. The US wanted to undermine the Soviets so they created, trained, armed and built up an enemy (the Mujahadeen) to tackle the "barbarous", "evil" Soviets, which eventually had the result in undermining Soviet Russia as a whole when they became bogged down in a costly war against the Mujahadeen.. But the facts were, that the Soviet-controlled regime in Afghanistan was actually secular and infinitely more benign than those who would take over - The Taliban... And after undermining the Soviet regime, the US then scuttled off and left Afghanistan to fall into the grips of The Taliban.... Right Wing religious nutters (both Christian and Muslim) undermining a secular, military authority - birds of a feather flocking together in this case.... If you think by actually making this point that you're exonerating America of any responsibility for creating the Frankenstein's monster that is Al Qaeda/Mujahadeen/Taliban, then you are wrong mate, these facts, actually do the complete opposite...

 

I also knew about Bin Laden offering to "take care" of Saudi Arabia.. Actually, he offered a little more than this, he actually offered to send in the Mujahadeen to clear Iraqi troops out of Kuwait.. Surely this would have been a better idea than creating the problem that has come about now, because it would have been Arabs sorting out an Arab problem... I have no doubt that 9/11 would not have happened had King Fahd taken up Bin Laden on his offer.... And it is the ultimate proof Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with Bin Laden or 9/11, because, well, they sort of hated each other, the outright lies of Iraqi involvement in 9/11 were part of America's ridiculous "justification" for the invasion of Iraq....

 

And frankly, I dont give a sh!t about dodgy Israeli politicians being assassinated - legit targets if you ask me seeing as how they are ultimately responsible for the oppression and murder of thousands of Palestinians....

 

Yep, given the world of sh!t we're in now, I reckon most of us are actually becoming a bit nostalgic for the "good old days" of the Cold War.... I bet these assholes in Washington are very much regretting undermining Communism and Soviet Russia now aren't they....? :lol: :lol:

wtf are you on about?

 

FACTS ARE WETHER WE/I LIKE IT OR NOT THIS COUNTRY ADOPTED CHRISTIANITY IN THE 6TH CENTUARY...that predates most of our ancestory.

 

im NOT defending the ideology, im defending the churches historical role in our culture, our heritage, this is a FACT.

 

to remove the church as you suggest from society would result in utter chaos. the church has its hand in every corner of our society, from parliament, through law, to charities helping the homeless and battered women.... and YOU advocate removing the church from society!!!!! UTTERLY STUPID.

 

Yeah, cos there aren't plenty of other charities out there that could do the job just as effectively, erm SHELTER anyone...? And, well, why cant the STATE do this as well, you know actually redirect taxes from killing innocent civilians in the Middle East and upgrading our nuclear weapons which we dont fukkin need, and giving it to the homeless and battered women....? You talk as if the country cant survive without religion or christianity or any other religious dogma... Bollocks, it most certainly could... In fact, I reckon our Democracy ("Democracy" being an ancient Greek philosophy and concept which PREDATED sodding Christianity anyway, and most of our laws and the makeup of our Parliamentary structure are actually based upon ancient ROMAN principles, the whole idea of a 'Constitutional Monarchy' comes from the Roman concepts of having a Caesar and a Senate. Catholicism originated in Rome, but it still continued to use many of the same State infrastructures that were already in place for hundreds of years during the non-Christian times, so it is extremely debateable as to whether we took our ideas from Christianity, or from what went before it...) would be a hell of a lot more effective and infinitely stronger, without this ridiculous religious baggage... Sorry, your arguments just do not convince me of any religion's worth to society, religion does nothing but create divisions and hatred (HELLO!! Northern Ireland anyone??? FUKK ALL to do with Islam, that is purely a Christian thing...), a cursory look at the vile, borderline racist comments on this and other threads absolutely convinces me of this... It's like swinging in trees and living in caves, we simply DONT NEED IT anymore. We've MOVED ON, well at least we damn well SHOULD at any rate....

 

Religion may have served a purpose (as rubbing two sticks together to make fire did once serve a purpose, but, hey, guess what, we've got CENTRAL HEATING these days folks...) hundreds of years ago, those times no longer exist, and we need an upgrade, simple as, and it aint as if there arent any, NON religious alternatives.... If you're a cheerleader for Richard Dawkins mate (as you have been, you cant deny that), then the removal of church, and religion as a whole, from our society is exactly what you are advocating because that is pretty much what he is arguing in a nutshell, a complete separation of church from state... No getting round it.... I'll say it again - make up your mind exactly what it is you are advocating, because you are sending a totally mixed message by arguing on the one hand, for the anti-religiosity argument of Dawkins and on the other, defending the christian church's role in society (which hasn't exactly been all that positive as plenty of historical - and more recent - examples can attest...), you cant have it both ways....

 

Christ, no wonder no civilised, technologically and intellectually advanced alien civlisations want to visit us.... They would take one look at us and run screaming for light years...... Or else laugh their asses off at us and say "Look, the talking monkeys are still arguing over religion"..... :lol: :lol:

 

Time for religion, ALL religion, to go the way of the dinosaur, or else, religion may just lead to us going that way in the end...

So what exactly did Scotland do to deserve a Jeep being driven into Glasgow Airport.

 

Which for the record is Scotlands Most multicultural City.

 

and the Scottish Gvmnt ENCOURAGE Scotland to be Multicultural.

 

Well, the last time I looked, Scotland was still part of the UK, whether you like it or not mate...

 

Actually, I heard that the attack at Glasgow airport had more to do with the transferrance of power from Blair to Gordon Brown and the fact that he was born in Govan.. The fact that Brown has still to set any kind of timetable for withdrawal of UK troops (of which a fair few are Scottish, much to Alex Salmond's chagrin, because he was so bitterly opposed to the Iraq war and would no doubt love to have the power to pull Scottish troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan immediately, which he would be able to do if Scotland were independent...) seems to make it a case of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss"... It was nothing that the Scottish Assembly did or didn't do, the attack was more about sending a message to Gordon Brown I reckon....

Mosque's plan to broadcast call to prayer from loudspeaker 'will create Muslim ghetto'

BBC News England at 10:14am, 14th January 2008

 

Muslim elders at an Oxford mosque have said they intend to push ahead with plans to broadcast a call to prayer from a loudspeaker despite fierce opposition.

 

Local residents have attacked the idea saying it would disrupt the peace and turn the area into a 'Muslim ghetto'.

 

But the elders said they still intend to seek planning permission to install the loudspeaker.

If granted, they would broadcast a two-minute long call three times a day from the Central Mosque, where up to 700 people gather to worship every Friday.

 

The idea has gained support from the Bishop of Oxford, the Rt Rev John Pritchard, who last week said those in opposition to the idea should "relax" and "enjoy community diversity".

 

But residents, who packed out a council meeting last month to signal their outrage, remain set against the plan which they say is an "un-neighbourly intrusion".

They said they would rally to block the proposal when it is submitted to the council in nine months time, when construction on the mosque is complete.

 

Dr Allan Chapman, 61, who lives near the building, said: "The response against this has been incredible, we have been indundated with calls ranging from stiff upper lip outrage to sheer screaming fury.

"The universal message is what an utter cheek to inflict this on a non-Muslim area of Oxford. If this application goes forward then a large number of angry people are poised to form an opposition to it."

Dr Chapman added the broadcast is not to comparable to the ringing of church bells because: "They are just a signal. The Muslim call is a theological statement."

 

Residents have said the main objection is the loud amplification of the broadcast.

Elizabeth Mills, 56, said: "We don't have a problem with the Imam climbing to the top of the minaret and shouting.

"But we object to electronic amplification. The Bishop of Oxford might say it's ok but he doesn't have to listen to it."

 

Martin Stott, 53, a member of the Oxford Oratory, added: "This is not an anti-Muslim thing, it is more about community cohesion."

 

A spokesman for the Central Mosque said that sounding the call to prayer is a traditional part of the religion.

Sadar Rana, 68, said: "Building work will take another nine months to a year, it is then that we plan to make an application to the council.

 

"We want to fix a loudspeak to our minaret to broadcast our call to prayer. We would like to have it three times a day but if that is not accepted, then we would like to have it at least on Fridays.

"We do not need the volume to be loud but we want to have the call in some form because it's our tradition."

 

And how would a "Muslim Ghetto" (if one actually really IS created and this isn't just a load of press hype as I suspect it is..) actually essentially be any different to the Protestant and Catholic "ghettos" that have existed in Northern Ireland and certain areas of Glasgow for as long as anyone can remember...? Are these deeply-divided-on-religioius-grounds communities (such as Falls Road, Shankhill Road, Parkhead, Ibrox...) somehow more acceptable or healthy simply because they are "christian" or whatever...? I dont think so... And anyone who says this obviously has never seen an Orange March or a July 12 Parade in their lives.... Absolutely disgusting, vile and has no place in a civilised society.... <_< But, hey, it's part of our "Christian Heritage" so we have to respect it, right....?

 

This Dr Chapman bloke's a bit of a laugh.... So, there's nothing remotely 'religious' or 'theological' about ringing Church bells...? Oh, come on, what a ridiculous statement.... :lol: :lol: :lol: Like, it's merely a pleasant, pretty tune is it mate....? PUH-LEEEEEEZEEEE, the church bells were historically the signals to attend church for a christian service or to attend a christian wedding or burial. Nah, nothing 'theological' there at all... :lol:

 

Perhaps if morons on ALL sides of this debate could actually recognise the facts that essentially Jews, Christians and Muslims are actually PRAYING TO THE SAME FUKKIN' GOD and are basically just all variants and different interpretations of each other, we wouldn't actually have any problems..... You can just imagine all of Dr Chapman's callers with their "bloody muslims" rants cant you...? Well, they are clearly too thick to recognise the fact that when they insult "bloody muslims", they also indirectly insult their OWN faith.... Tossers.... And of course vice versa....

Yeah, cos there aren't plenty of other charities out there that could do the job just as effectively, erm SHELTER anyone...? And, well, why cant the STATE do this as well, you know actually redirect taxes from killing innocent civilians in the Middle East and upgrading our nuclear weapons which we dont fukkin need, and giving it to the homeless and battered women....? You talk as if the country cant survive without religion or christianity or any other religious dogma... Bollocks, it most certainly could... In fact, I reckon our Democracy ("Democracy" being an ancient Greek philosophy and concept which PREDATED sodding Christianity anyway, and most of our laws and the makeup of our Parliamentary structure are actually based upon ancient ROMAN principles, the whole idea of a 'Constitutional Monarchy' comes from the Roman concepts of having a Caesar and a Senate. Catholicism originated in Rome, but it still continued to use many of the same State infrastructures that were already in place for hundreds of years during the non-Christian times, so it is extremely debateable as to whether we took our ideas from Christianity, or from what went before it...) would be a hell of a lot more effective and infinitely stronger, without this ridiculous religious baggage... Sorry, your arguments just do not convince me of any religion's worth to society, religion does nothing but create divisions and hatred (HELLO!! Northern Ireland anyone??? FUKK ALL to do with Islam, that is purely a Christian thing...), a cursory look at the vile, borderline racist comments on this and other threads absolutely convinces me of this... It's like swinging in trees and living in caves, we simply DONT NEED IT anymore. We've MOVED ON, well at least we damn well SHOULD at any rate....

 

Religion may have served a purpose (as rubbing two sticks together to make fire did once serve a purpose, but, hey, guess what, we've got CENTRAL HEATING these days folks...) hundreds of years ago, those times no longer exist, and we need an upgrade, simple as, and it aint as if there arent any, NON religious alternatives.... If you're a cheerleader for Richard Dawkins mate (as you have been, you cant deny that), then the removal of church, and religion as a whole, from our society is exactly what you are advocating because that is pretty much what he is arguing in a nutshell, a complete separation of church from state... No getting round it.... I'll say it again - make up your mind exactly what it is you are advocating, because you are sending a totally mixed message by arguing on the one hand, for the anti-religiosity argument of Dawkins and on the other, defending the christian church's role in society (which hasn't exactly been all that positive as plenty of historical - and more recent - examples can attest...), you cant have it both ways....

 

Christ, no wonder no civilised, technologically and intellectually advanced alien civlisations want to visit us.... They would take one look at us and run screaming for light years...... Or else laugh their asses off at us and say "Look, the talking monkeys are still arguing over religion"..... :lol: :lol:

 

Time for religion, ALL religion, to go the way of the dinosaur, or else, religion may just lead to us going that way in the end...

 

very eloquent, however it was a complete waste of typing as i have all along refered to the church and NOT to religion. :lol: