Russt does indeed deliberately set out to be malicious to me at least (and I've seen him act the same to other posters such as Simon) but that's beside the point here...

 

Grimly, surely we have established by now that I am passionate about music? :mellow: The sales matter to me only in the context of ensuring my favourite artists remain with a record deal and thus can release more music for me to enjoy. I think we have also established that when I made my initial comments I knew not about the type of record label Mute were...can we now stop insisting that I'm only in it for the sales?

That's entirely irrelevant to my point. An album speaks for itself. Of course all albums have influences. But the quality of songwriting/music/aesthetic are what make the album good. Music is entirely opinion. We all see different things in music.

 

To say 'Supernature' isn't as good as 'Seventh Tree' is an opinion. Agreed surely?

 

I see your point, but I still dont think that an artist can be divorced from their influnces or experiences.... And I still maintain that listening to the music which inspired the artist to create in the first place will lead to a better all-round knowledge of where the artist is coming from, especially in terms of songwriting and aesthetic....

 

Just to take your sig for example - you couldn't have Ladytron without Kraftwerk, DAF, Human League, Visage, My Bloody Valentine, Cocteau Twins, Stereolab, etc doing the groundwork and inspiring them to create in the first place..... They still stand on their own two feet, but they got there with a bit of help....

 

 

 

But there's reccomending things and there's (what certainly appears) forcing stuff upon people taking no regard for their opinions and patronising them (which has happened, not necissarily by you, but it has). Not everyone takes music so serously, and why should they? Music is there to be enjoyed, why can't you enjoy something just because you're not aware of their earlier material or influences? Or because they sound like someone else? Or that they're not creatively groundbreaking or original?

 

Bottom line - I like to see the bigger picture.... Surely a panoramic view is better than a limited one.... :) More enjoyment surely....?

 

I still say that it wil enhance listening pleasure to seek out at least a BIT of the stuff that influenced all the artists you loved.... If they're talking about it in interviews, seems to me that there's a reason.... IE, "If you guys love us, you'll love these bands too, cos we loved 'em and we grew up listening to them...". Why do you think the likes of MTV and other music channels go to such lengths to actually get a lot of today's artists to do shows where they play clips of their fave tracks which influenced them...?

 

This is a fantastic debate guys... Exactly the sort of thing this site needs I reckon... Again, I'm sorry if I came off being a tw@t, I really don't want to be thought of as a "nasty guy" or anything, I actually like you all.... Yep, even you Jark.... :lol:

 

Anyway, I'm hungry, gotta eat... And CSI is on in a bit... Toodles..... ;)

I see your point, but I still dont think that an artist can be divorced from their influnces or experiences.... And I still maintain that listening to the music which inspired the artist to create in the first place will lead to a better all-round knowledge of where the artist is coming from, especially in terms of songwriting and aesthetic....

 

Just to take your sig for example - you couldn't have Ladytron without Kraftwerk, DAF, Human League, Visage, My Bloody Valentine, Cocteau Twins, Stereolab, etc doing the groundwork and inspiring them to create in the first place..... They still stand on their own two feet, but they got there with a bit of help....

 

Experience? PJ Harvey has never wrote a single song from her experiences yet they are all still amazing. I'd find it a bit creepy if she drowned her baby in a river, haha. As for influence, I agree that influences are important, however I also feel like albums can be enjoyed in their own right. If I love an album, I will many times go and find the bands/artists that influenced them. Yet it is not because I want to heighten my experience of the album I already own, but to simply find more music to enjoy and love.

First of all, I'd like to openly apologise to Jake.

 

I clearly had a train of thought, but derailed myself as I was tired and had been out the night before for a few jars when I posted that, as reading it now it comes across as completely patronising & self righteous (although I am a bit of an old git in Buzzjack's terms), plus I should have aimed my friendly fire at other more deserving targets.

 

The bottom line is that of course everyone is entitled to like what the hell they want, that gives them the most enjoyment. If they want to listen to the latest Simon Cowell/Louis Walsh talent show act that is rammed down our throat then more fool them, or whatever records are bummed to death by Radio 1, that is there prerogative.

 

The problem I have from 20+ years of gigs, is that I like Russ & Scott have seen various acts where casual fans are only there for the hits, or the new album (if is a newish act), and are not interested in their back catalogue (when they were less successful) or if it is an established act past their peak, the tracks from their latest album for the reasons already given, as I think that smacks of ignorance.

 

 

Likewise, two things in particular I heard or saw on the internet have annoyed me due to the ignorance and stupidity involved.

 

1) Over the Bank Holiday weekend Q Magazine announced on their music channel the results of the Greatest British Bands of All-time (as voted by their readership):

 

The Top 5 was:

 

1 Oasis

2 Sex Pistols

3 Radiohead

4 Queen

5 Coldplay

 

Now what is wrong with the top 5 some younger posters may ask?

 

Well for starters where are The Beatles who should be #1 (They were 6th). It is irrelevent whether you actually like them or not, their contribution to 20th Century music in just 7 years recording 13 original studio albums + plus several fantastic singles & B-sides not available on their albums and the way their sound evolved and covered so many musical bases, whilst writing so many songs that are still standards today. The reason America & the World today gives a toss about "The Next Big Thing" out of old blighty is because of the Fab Four and what they did to shape popular music. (How ironic that that poll has been topped by a band regarded by their harshest critics as a Beatles tribute act).

 

The Sex Pistols whilst being the zeitgeist for musical revolution & a much needed change made just one proper album before John Lydon walked, are clearly too high. I'm sure John Lydon himself would be highly bemused by some of the acts they've left trailing.

 

Radiohead deserve a high placing as they have challenged the boundaries of popular music in the last 15 years so easily deserve a Top 15 place.

 

Queen as I've said before, I like Queen they had a Madonna/Robbie Williams type knack of always coming up with a great single or two per album but they incredibly overrated. It almost seems to be the unwritten law nowadays that any teenager who gets into music, must buy as their first two "Classic" albums Abba Gold & Queen's Platinum Collection

 

Whilst Coldplay at #5, oh come on-on someone is having a laugh aren't they?

 

It is a joke they've beaten acts like The Smiths (7th), Led Zeppelin (8th), Rolling Stones (9th), Pink Floyd (12th) & The Who must have been lower (as I caught it from 12 upwards).

 

Still if that is the results of Q Magazine, then what does it say about their readership nowadays?

 

2) Legendary musicologist/broadcaster/writer Paul Gambaccini (For those who don't know Paul Gambaccini is oh dear like a commercial version of the late John Peel) wrote an excellent piece comparing Amy Winehouse in the same talent/ballpark as Jazz legends Billie Holiday, Nina Simone & Ella Fitzgerald. He merely made an excellent argument how someone this young is as talented as those greats, and said that her success at the Grammies, etc was richly deserved, and that the British public should stop knocking her (Pointing out that not one British paper covered as a front page story her record haul for a British act at the Grammies, when other acts in the past have been put on the front page for winning a Grammy, because like a lot of the musical & artistic greats from the past she is a bit emotionally "Crippled Inside" but it should not devalue the artistic merit of her work.

 

However, his excellent piece came in for vitriol on two fronts, firstly, from older posters/snobs saying how dare you compare this Junkie with those Jazz greats (obviously forgetting their pasts were colourful to say the least), and younger posters who have been "brainwashed" by the media because they were basically knocking Paul Gambaccini's post as being patronising and over authoritative saying who is the old guy raving about her, she can't sing properly, Duffy/Adele/Gabrielle Cilmi/Lily Allen is much better than Amy, etc.

 

The point I'm trying to say is that in many ways I feel very sorry for teenagers growing up today, because music papers like the NME is basically a comic because its content is minimal compared to the likes of New Musical Express, Melody Maker & Sounds that we had at the turn of the end of the 1980s/beginning of the 1990s.

Likewise Radio 1 has become so narrow in the daytime as you have celebrities as DJ's instead of actual proper DJ's with the nadir being the treatment of the flagship Sunday Chart Show. Also in the 1980s & early 1990s their was always some interesting documentaries on older music. For example Paul Gambaccini had his 1 hour Rock Profiles on a Saturday afternoon where each week he would provide a resume of a major music act from the post Rock'n'Roll era playing a lot of the key tracks so you could learn a lot about some artist you had previously heard one or two songs on. It also produced several classic documentary series including the epic 24 part (24 hours) story of British music from the 1950s to 1989 entitled "This Is Pop". Likewise Radio 1 used to feature artists of the day selecting tracks by their favourite artists that had influenced them, so when I was in my early teens I would listen to Boy George (Culture Club) or Nick Rhodes from Duran Duran select tracks by the likes of David Bowie, T-Rex, Roxy Music, Doors, Sex Pistols, Velvet Underground, Kraftwerk, etc which would educate me on older music.

 

But Radio 1 does not seem to do any of that anymore. For example there are a number of posters who could probably now fail to name a Blur track, let alone a Pulp, Suede or Supergrass track, or a lot of the great British acts before the 1990s which I find depressing. Whilst does MTV actually show any videos anymore as it all seems to be about awful Reality documentaries, or programmes following has-been pop stars, etc. In stark contrast to what it used to be like (although MTV 2 is pretty good, but even VH1 has really dummed down).

 

 

Getting back to Goldfrapp if I was to rate their albums (out of 10) it would be:

 

1st Felt Mountain (10)

2nd The Seventh Tree (09)

3rd Black Cherry (08)

4th Supernature (05)

 

Experience? PJ Harvey has never wrote a single song from her experiences yet they are all still amazing. I'd find it a bit creepy if she drowned her baby in a river, haha.

 

Have you ever heard "Dry"? Incredibly personal album I would say... I doubt she's drowned a baby in a river, but she's likely to have heard stories and legends of women who did (Lady Macbeth being one obvious example and who hasn't studied Shakespeare at school? ;) ) ... 'Experiences' don't necessarily need to be first hand, they could be second or third hand, or from stories.... Stories, folklore and legends (especially in the oral tradition) leave an indelible psychological impact upon the reader/listener....

2) Legendary musicologist/broadcaster/writer Paul Gambaccini (For those who don't know Paul Gambaccini is oh dear like a commercial version of the late John Peel) wrote an excellent piece comparing Amy Winehouse in the same talent/ballpark as Jazz legends Billie Holiday, Nina Simone & Ella Fitzgerald. He merely made an excellent argument how someone this young is as talented as those greats, and said that her success at the Grammies, etc was richly deserved, and that the British public should stop knocking her (Pointing out that not one British paper covered as a front page story her record haul for a British act at the Grammies, when other acts in the past have been put on the front page for winning a Grammy, because like a lot of the musical & artistic greats from the past she is a bit emotionally "Crippled Inside" but it should not devalue the artistic merit of her work.

 

I sorta disagree with him on the level that I think that Beth Gibbons is a more likely candidate to be a modern-day Billie Holliday rather than Winehouse, but that's more personal thing.... But he is a very knowledgably bloke....

 

It certainly wouldn't be the likes of Duffy, Lily Allen, etc.... They're frankly more modern-day equivalents of Petula Clark, Cilla Black or Lulu if you ask me....

I sorta disagree with him on the level that I think that Beth Gibbons is a more likely candidate to be a modern-day Billie Holliday rather than Winehouse, but that's more personal thing.... But he is a very knowledgably bloke....

 

I see where your coming from, but I've always seen (& especially now with Portishead's potential album of the decade Third album seen) Beth as a female Mark Hollis (Talk Talk). To me they are both fantastic vocalists, in so far that they use their voices in a more abstract manner as an instrument as part of the music, rather than in the more conventional narrative melodic sense of singers like Wino-junkie.

but these days wont those singles just get lost - maybe a few fans who buy everything will get it if on vinyl - but if everyones got the album and radio is still focused on a small range of hits guaranteed the audience loves it will just get lost - so pointless to put the effort in releasing it/promoting it etc etc.

 

i think with 'album artists' - anyone apart from a maybe pop act like Girls Aloud etc - the first single will be the most imporatant - whatever it would have been as the album is the most important thing to get out

I think a recent example says otherwise - Rihanna.

 

btw think i would like Goldfrapp to be on the music channels when i switch on rather than the over-played

Don't Stop the Music - give it a rest cant you the hits??

 

 

This is a fantastic debate guys... Exactly the sort of thing this site needs I reckon... Again, I'm sorry if I came off being a tw@t, I really don't want to be thought of as a "nasty guy" or anything, I actually like you all.... Yep, even you Jark.... :lol:

 

Yeah totally man! more debates - less people just going 'i like this record, i dont like that record' or 'list the top ten records by duran duran' or 'the ruby suns' - as thats quite pointless tbh and not really that intersting - this is better good points - good counter arguments not just a love-in

 

1) Over the Bank Holiday weekend Q Magazine announced on their music channel the results of the Greatest British Bands of All-time (as voted by their readership):

 

The Top 5 was:

 

1 Oasis

2 Sex Pistols

3 Radiohead

4 Queen

5 Coldplay

 

Still if that is the results of Q Magazine, then what does it say about their readership nowadays?

 

I cannot work out what is the point of Q Magazine is? i wouldnt like to compile a photofit of their readership target tho if Q magazine was started to target readers who like CD-rock arena-giants like Genesis, Dire Straights and U2 then maybe the focus hasnt changed as it could be said that Keane, the killers and U2 are exactly the same kinda bands but with a myst of trendy put over the top.

 

 

2) The point I'm trying to say is that in many ways I feel very sorry for teenagers growing up today, because music papers like the NME is basically a comic because its content is minimal compared to the likes of New Musical Express, Melody Maker & Sounds that we had at the turn of the end of the 1980s/beginning of the 1990s.

 

Likewise Radio 1 has become so narrow in the daytime as you have celebrities as DJ's instead of actual proper DJ's with the nadir being the treatment of the flagship Sunday Chart Show. Also in the 1980s & early 1990s their was always some interesting documentaries on older music. For example Paul Gambaccini had his 1 hour Rock Profiles on a Saturday afternoon where each week he would provide a resume of a major music act from the post Rock'n'Roll era playing a lot of the key tracks so you could learn a lot about some artist you had previously heard one or two songs on. It also produced several classic documentary series including the epic 24 part (24 hours) story of British music from the 1950s to 1989 entitled "This Is Pop".

 

but in those days you wouldnt have had BBC Four - and thats where i guess you would find these kinda things these days (even tho some of the docus are repeats from a few years ago - witness last nights king of cool crooning special with a much heatlthyer looking Amy W.) - pop/soul britania - thats be the modern day this is pop i guess

 

 

Yesterday it was a great day for me: I've seen Goldfrapp live in my city for the first time!!

The show was fabulous!

 

Alison wore a cute pink dress and looked fantastic (very sexy)! :wub:

I was very close to the stage (around 10m from her); I think she saw me.

The crowd was great and the sound was clean and loud.

 

They played songs like: "Paper Bag", "Satin Chic", "Strict Machine", "A&E", "Road to Somewhere", "Happiness", "Caravan Girl", "Ooh La La", "Utopia", "You Never Know", "Number 1", "Cologne Cerrone Houdini", "Clowns", "Little Bird" and others

 

Goldfrapp are one of the best live bands ever! :cheer:

 

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p4/ToDenyASound/gold.png

© Bjorker

Edited June 6, 200817 yr by Alin

Yesterday it was a great day for me: I've seen Goldfrapp live in my city for the first time!!

The show was fabulous!

 

Alison wore a cute pink dress and looked fantastic (very sexy)! :wub:

I was very close to the stage (around 10m from her); I think she saw me.

The crowd was great and the sound was clean and loud.

 

They played songs like: "Paper Bag", "Satin Chic", "Strict Machine", "A&E", "Road to Somewhere", "Happiness", "Caravan Girl", "Ooh La La", "Utopia", "You Never Know", "Number 1", "Cologne Cerrone Houdini", "Clowns", "Little Bird" and others

 

Goldfrapp are one of the best live bands ever! :cheer:

 

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p4/ToDenyASound/gold.png

© Bjorker

 

Q magazine has a free cd with a Goldfrapp live track on this month...

 

C-listed on Radio 1 :D which is great news but if the video isn't coming anytime soon i can see another flop!

Video:

 

 

Pure laziness on Goldfrapp's part. It's quite nice, really, but it drags on and I don't imagine music channels will embrace it.

Video:

 

 

Pure laziness on Goldfrapp's part. It's quite nice, really, but it drags on and I don't imagine music channels will embrace it.

 

maybe they need to stick Cheryl Cole or Usher in somewhere (tho the last 2 times i have switched the hits on Bros' When will i be famous has come on which even tho it wasnt nelly or fergie still has has been hell, boy, boy has it has been hell :lol: )

How stupid and annoying they should appear more in their videos, happiness half flopped because the video was so boring and now this is even worse.

How stupid and annoying they should appear more in their videos, happiness half flopped because the video was so boring and now this is even worse.

 

No I disagree. Happiness had one of the most inventive, clever videos of the year featuring a handful of cameo appearances by credible musicians to boot, and was easily one of the best videos of the year to date.

 

As for their new single, well read this fantastic outspoken interview ....... all I'll say is that Russ, Scott, Jake & I 1 v Jark & yourself 0 :lol:

...........................................................................................................................................................

 

Alison Goldfrapp talks Duffy, Brit School breeding and losing it with journalists

by Rebecca Nicholson

The Lipster.com

 

Alison Goldfrapp is a pop icon who's influenced everyone from Kylie to Madonna, as you well know. We met this very pleasant, very passionate and very sweary lady in London to discuss, over tea and biscuits, Brit School breeding, rock star cliches, Duffy, women's magazines, terrible interviews and what it's like to be asked about shoes for almost 10 years.

 

Let's start with a big state of the music industry question. Is it more about getting your song on an advert now than album sales?

 

We've always relied on stuff like adverts because nobody wanted to play our stuff on the radio at all. They've only recently started doing that. So for us, having music on an ad was a way of paying the rent, and a way for people to hear our music. This album, bizarrely, and much to our surprise, is doing better than any of our albums. We're actually selling more records than we did before, which is quite strange, because I thought no one was going to f***ing listen to it.

 

And the internet...

 

It's fantastic, in a way, that people are able to discover music that they would never discover before, because radio and television would decide what you were going to listen to, so the access to all kinds of music is wonderful. But then on the other hand, it does make you wonder, unless you've been to Brit School, how the f*** you'll have any sort of career in music.

 

What is it about all these pop stars coming from the Brit School?

 

Well it's like breeding, isn't it? It's breeding what will be the next big thing. Great, we've had Amy Winehouse, so now let's have 10 of them, and we'll train them up. That's essentially what Duffy is. I think she's got an amazing voice but essentially she's been trained to sound and be like that. It wasn't some crazy idea she had. It was a business plan. Ultimately, if you're talented then it doesn't really matter, but I suppose what it does is breed, whereas it would be nice to have a few runts around.

 

There's a class thing now, too. It's about having money.

 

Well yeah. It's like any kind of education, isn't it? When I went to art school, I was just good at art. I didn't have any qualifications whatsoever, none, and I was the dunce, considered thick, nothing was going to happen for me. And I got in because they thought I was good at art. Whereas now, one, you've got to have a $h!tload of money, and two, you need to have a million exams which probably aren't even related to that anyway. It seems a bit mental.

 

It's the same with university places.

 

That's wrong. It's just really wrong. There you are, politics! Although I do know someone who has f*** all money, and their kid's just got a scholarship to go to Brit School, purely on their talent. But the other thing is, that's young. They're 14. I quite like it when people are a bit more lived in, I think. You do wonder where those songs come from. But some people have wisdom beyond their years. Kate Bush was 14 when she wrote Man With The Child In His Eyes... f***ing hell.

You've got Laura Marling now who's 18.

And neither of them went to Brit School. Maybe it's a f***ing good thing they didn't! God knows what they'd be doing.

 

These young female pop stars get a lot of stick in the press, though.

 

It's a weird one, isn't it? That has crossed my mind on occasion. I suppose it's hard to think about without thinking about a whole load of other issues as well. Like the tradition of "rock star" - what's his face, Babyshambles? - classic, f***ed up, takes drugs, he must be a genius. That really winds me up because he's read some books on poetry, so therefore he must be a f***ing genius? Whereas the girls, they're just troubled. There's a slightly different criteria, somehow. They certainly don't get called a genius if they've read some books. It's just the old cliche, isn't it? He's a genius because he took some drugs and read some books.

 

How do you feel you've been treated by the press? You're coveted by music magazines, women's magazines, style magazines... I just found an interview you did with a glossy, shall I read you a question?

 

Well I don't read any press, so go on.

 

"You're known as a horse-tailed stage dominatrix. How does your new folky sound translate in the wardrobe department?"

 

What did I say back? I didn't say f*** off, did I?

 

You were pleasant. You just said you'd been advised not to wear heels.

 

I can't imagine me being that polite because I did actually get quite sick of doing those kind of interviews. I was sick of people asking me about my f***ing shoes and not asking me about music. I had invented this image of myself that I got really bored of. I was quite naive about it and thought people wouldn't take it so bloody seriously. As soon as you start feeling like someone's labelling you a horse-tail-wearing dominatrix, you start thinking, well hold on a minute... I think I felt trapped in this thing that I'd invented. It wasn't about music any more. I just thought, f***, I'm really bored of this. I get bored really easily......, like with the new single, if we'd known the album would have been so well received we'd have left the track off the album, but we compromised to provide something to the audience who bought our previous album..... which perhaps was a bit of a mistake artistically, especially when you compare it to the wonderful new Portishead album.

 

There was an interview with Adele in a women's mag that was all about her weight.

 

I just find reading women's magazines... well I don't read them, actually, because most of the time they are really depressing. Because it's women writing about other women, about how they should look, about how they shouldn't look, whether they're too fat, too thin, f***ing hell, it's so boring. It's mindless bollocks. I'm not interested in whether Adele's f***ing fat or thin. It's horrible. Once you start the ball rolling, you don't care so long as there's someone you can rip apart. I can't bear it.

 

I don't want to sound rude...

 

Go on then!

 

...but you've got a reputation, in terms of interviews, for not taking any nonsense. Have you mellowed?

 

I probably have. I'm a bit more relaxed. When we first started, particularly, I was much more nervous. This is the advantage of going to Brit School probably - somebody tells you what an interview is, and why you're doing it. It took a good few years to work out how to deal with it. When Will and I used to do interviews together - though it's not really like that any more - quite often they would talk to Will and say, music music music. And turn to me and say, "that's a lovely pair of shoes". And that's when I'd be sitting there going, for f***'s sake! What the f***... you know. I'd get irritated.

 

What's the worst experience you've had?

 

We did this radio interview in France. The bloke was talking to Will about music and eventually turned to me and says [French accent], "So Alison, you are very sexy, very feminine, and today we see you are not." I was like, WHAT? I immediately laid into him and said "What the f*** are you talking about?" There was this panic going on around the room and then he carried on talking to Will about music. I was sitting there fuming. After five minutes of talking to Will about knobs he turned to me again and said, "That's a very pretty dress you have on, Alison". So I was like, right, you're a f***ing arsehole, aren't you?

 

When was the last time you lost it?

 

Well I have to say I wasn't that kind to a gentleman earlier today, only because it was very obvious he'd done all his research on the internet and had read all my answers to the questions, so his questions just had my answers in them. If you know the f***ing answers, why they f*** are you asking me them? I could go on about this for hours!

 

Go ahead...

 

Some journalists have an angle, and sometimes you don't fit into what they expect you to be like or answer what they wanted you to answer, so they get a bit arsey and think, she's a bit bolshy and awkward. That's what usually happens! But then I think women do get called bolshy and awkward if you're not grinning, everything's wonderful, Kylie Minogue. Guys get, "they're strong and they know what they want". Girls get, "She's difficult, isn't she?" Sometimes you do have to be a bit f***ing stroppy and difficult or else people don't f***ing listen to you. There are always people telling you you can't do what you want to, and actually you f***ing can. Otherwise nowt happens, you know.

 

nice interview, thanks!

 

Alison has a lot of attitude as usual (and she's not afraid to use the f word)

Oooh..I'm still in need to hear it :lol:

What single was she saying she put on there because it sounded half like the other album or something like that, and quite a weird interview she sure likes to swear.