Which is what I said in my first post, idiot.... Please DO keep up..... -_-

 

Look, I'm getting pretty fukkin' sick of repeating myself - I DO NOT EXCUSE THE SCUMMY GERS FANS IN ANY WAY!!!!!!! I don't like Rangers fans, I dont like Rangers football club.. I don't like the unpleasant atmosphere of bigotry and sectarianism that Rangers' fans and their club creates.... They are a fukkin' disgrace to Scotland and frankly, I'd happily see Ibrox demolished tbh... No, I'm not a Celtic fan, they can be almost as bad sometimes..

 

But you English have got pretty fukkin' short memories when it comes to footie violence.. As bad as 'Gers fans are, they're still nowhere near as bad as a lot of the scum who support clubs like Millwall and West Ham.... Both of these clubs habitually cause havoc..... And England exports its absolute WORST every time there's a European or World Cup competition... I do believe that it was YOU LOT who caused the worst sh"t that occurred at the last WC event.....

 

...Like I say, short fukkin' memories...... -_-

 

You were trying to link it somehow that these Rangers fans were avengers for previous wrongs committed by the police which is absolute rubbish, that is the myth of yours that I was exposing, yes I have a hangover today so maybe I misread your point but the idea that Rangers fans attacked the police to get even for previous cases of police brutality like miners and De Menezes etc needs exposing for the nonsense that it is

 

The cop in the video unless he has been personally involved in police brutality can't be compared with the things you listed

I have no idea how you can reach that conclusion

 

It was the press that exposed the lies and inconsistencies of the Met with regards the De Menezes case, it was the press that called for Ian Blair to resign, the press very much kept the thing in the headlines, the press were also very scathing of the cops that handled the Stephen Lawrence case, the press were very critical of the Colin Stagg witchunt so the press don't always side with the Police

 

Most of the time they do though.... It's certainly not the more "popular" areas of the press that are critical of the Police, it only tends to be the likes of The Guardian or The Independant, not The Sun or The Mail, who continually defend the police whatever they do....

 

And it DOES NOT alter the fact that the Police never seem to be held accountable for their actions in any meaningful way, when was the last time a copper was sent down for perverting the course of justice or fitting someone up...? Or indeed, an unlawful killing...? Hasn't happened mate....

 

You were trying to link it somehow that these Rangers fans were avengers for previous wrongs committed by the police which is absolute rubbish, that is the myth of yours that I was exposing, yes I have a hangover today so maybe I misread your point but the idea that Rangers fans attacked the police to get even for previous cases of police brutality like miners and De Menezes etc needs exposing for the nonsense that it is

 

I was actually replying to another poster and agreeing with his points, which, I felt were pretty valid.... Football fans ARE harrassed, intimidated and assaulted themselves by Police... The biggest stadium disaster in this country's history (Hillsborough) was caused by Police incompetence and total lack of any attention to health and safety of fans... And how did the Meeeedjaaaaahhhhhh react to that one...? <_<

 

Oh, three guesses mate......

 

I'll give you a clue - they didn't exactly come out and slag off the filth....

 

I was actually replying to another poster and agreeing with his points, which, I felt were pretty valid.... Football fans ARE harrassed, intimidated and assaulted themselves by Police... The biggest stadium disaster in this country's history (Hillsborough) was caused by Police incompetence and total lack of any attention to health and safety of fans... And how did the Meeeedjaaaaahhhhhh react to that one...? <_<

 

Oh, three guesses mate......

 

I'll give you a clue - they didn't exactly come out and slag off the filth....

 

That was 1 paper though and I can only loosely call The Sun a paper, the article about the Liverpool fans at Hillsborough was vile but not representative of the media as a whole, I don't recall a single other section of the media coming up with the stuff The Sun did

English clubs were banned from Europe for years because of that bunch of maggots and scum who committed acts of violence and murder within in the Heysel Stadium, FACT.... English clubs have never been banned from European competitions because of anything they've done OUTSIDE a stadium to my knowledge...

 

 

and wasn't England threatened being thrown out of Euro 2004 and the World Cup 06, if there was any violence away from the stadium in open public places where they all gathered. Oh yes they were.

That was 1 paper though and I can only loosely call The Sun a paper, the article about the Liverpool fans at Hillsborough was vile but not representative of the media as a whole, I don't recall a single other section of the media coming up with the stuff The Sun did

 

You're missing my (and the other poster's) point... The Media by and large NEVER REPORT the absolute LEGIONS of instances of violence committed by the Police on innocent Football fans and students on Demos.. ONE COPPER gets a bit of kicking and it's all over the fukkin' press like a rash... Just a slight incosistency there I feel.....

 

and wasn't England threatened being thrown out of Euro 2004 and the World Cup 06, if there was any violence away from the stadium in open public places where they all gathered. Oh yes they were.

 

Did it actually happen... NO. Even when England fans did cause some sh!t in '06, the side still didn't get chucked out, so what the fukk are you complaining about....? But let's face it, the threats probably did prevent more havoc from taking place than actually did... So, they had a positive effect.....

 

The facts are this is the first time Scottish fans have done anything like this for....ohhh, let's see, DECADES..... And we always export our best fans abroad when it's the National side.. Gers "fans" are scum, they are not representative of Scotland fans as a whole, fans of the Scottish national team tend to behave themselves a bit better than your lot....

 

 

 

That was 1 paper though and I can only loosely call The Sun a paper, the article about the Liverpool fans at Hillsborough was vile but not representative of the media as a whole, I don't recall a single other section of the media coming up with the stuff The Sun did

 

You are as WRONG as wrong can be.

 

As a Liverpool fan I very much remember the coverage of Manchester United fan Rupert Murdoch's owned papers the News of The World, The Times and the Sunday Times coverage they all went along the lines of Scouse bast*rds hooligans were responsible for the disaster.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/67/Hillsborough_disaster_Sun.jpg

 

That is hardly one paper (& The Times is supposed to be a respectable newspaper), but a whole News organization. I suggest you read either Kenny Dalglish's, John Barnes' or Alan Hansen's autobiographies as they make it pretty clear that they do not regard Rupert Murdoch's media ownership with high regard over the whole affair. That is precisely why Graeme Souness lost the support of the Liverpool fans when he did an exclusive interview with The Sun in the 1990s, and quickly afterwards lost his job as manager of the Anfield based club.

 

While there is still bitterness towards The Sun chief Editor Kelvin MacKenzie who was responsible for printing these vile lies.

I was actually replying to another poster and agreeing with his points, which, I felt were pretty valid.... Football fans ARE harrassed, intimidated and assaulted themselves by Police... The biggest stadium disaster in this country's history (Hillsborough) was caused by Police incompetence and total lack of any attention to health and safety of fans... And how did the Meeeedjaaaaahhhhhh react to that one...? <_<

 

Oh, three guesses mate......

 

I'll give you a clue - they didn't exactly come out and slag off the filth....

 

Spot on.

 

Of course (the establishment) Margaret Thatcher and the Conservative government the following week at Question Time, were quick to point the blame at the Liverpool supporters for the Hillsborough Disaster.

 

After all the Manic Street Preachers recorded the song South Yorkshire Mass Murderers in "tribute" to their Police Force.

 

After all the Chief Sun Editor Kelvin MacKenzie in 1993 claimed his story was legitimised by the "reliable" source of the South Yorkshire chief superintendent David Duckenfield. Of course the Conservative government within a year gave an OBE to David Duckenfield when he retired early on full pay because of the stress of Hillsborough. Whilst in the 1990s the Conservative then sports minister David Mellor called Trevor Hicks (who lost his two daughters at Hillsborough) and was head of the Hillsborough Families Support Group a "trouble maker".

 

Whilst in 1990 the Taylor Report rubbished the vast majority of what the South Yorkshire Police had said, vindicating the Liverpool supporters of the blame.

100,000+ people in centre of Manchester today - and non of them felt the need to smash the place up, or kick $h!t out of each other or the police.

 

BBC2 later this afternoon if you want to witness how civilised people treat a city!!!

 

Manchester Council etc have come in for a lot of criticism this week - but today - only 4 days on - Manchester seemed to cope ok. funny that.

 

Booze and brainless football fans = trouble

 

 

Scotland caused the cancellation of the Home Internationals championships when they destroyed Wembley stadium throwing seats and smashing all the goalposts

 

Well, that simply isn't true. It finished in 1984, a full 7 years after the famous Wembley incident.

 

What's annoying me about this thread is that Scottish fans in general are getting called to account by the English members on here. We're talking about one set of fans who have for a long time been the worst in Scotland (even though Hibs' soccer casuals probably think they're worse) and it really doesn't surprise me what happened. Besides, eye witness accounts have confirmed Chelsea fans were involved in the 'eye of the storm'. Mind you, that could be bollocks.

 

Rangers should be held accountable with a suspended ban and a fine - if not, these same 'fans' will carry on causing trouble. Scottish fans in general have been praised by UEFA for decades for their good behaviour. Celtic played in the UEFA Cup final in Seville five years earlier and won a special award for their fans' behaviour.

 

As for the police angle - I agree with a lot of what Grimly's saying here, but there's no real proof that they 'started it' - of course there was severe provocation from drunk Rangers fans.

 

I was in Milan last March where Celtic played at the San Siro and there was no trouble whatsoever for the 'notoriously heavy handed' Italian police to sort out.

 

(Heh heh, that's a telling last line from me perhaps as to where my loyalties lie in Scotland...)

Edited May 18, 200817 yr by richie

Saw this summary about the trouble,

 

Almost 200,000 fans, 3 inadequate fan zones, 42 arrests, 15 police injured, 1 fan stabbed, 45,000 hotel rooms filled, 3 million pints drunk and overall a £25 million boost to city's coffers for doing next to nothing. Not bad for one day's work.

 

I would hazzard a guess any major team in UK would rack up similar statistics. Don't know about the number of fans though.

 

Is there not usually about 40 arrests when United play Liverpool on an average Saturday?

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the attitude of Rangers (I am no fan), but it needs put into perspective.

 

If you try and cram 3 times as many fans into an area, and then the Big screen packs in, fans have been drinking all day, inadequate facilities, you do the math!

Saw this summary about the trouble,

 

Almost 200,000 fans, 3 inadequate fan zones, 42 arrests, 15 police injured, 1 fan stabbed, 45,000 hotel rooms filled, 3 million pints drunk and overall a £25 million boost to city's coffers for doing next to nothing. Not bad for one day's work.

 

I would hazzard a guess any major team in UK would rack up similar statistics. Don't know about the number of fans though.

 

Is there not usually about 40 arrests when United play Liverpool on an average Saturday?

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the attitude of Rangers (I am no fan), but it needs put into perspective.

 

If you try and cram 3 times as many fans into an area, and then the Big screen packs in, fans have been drinking all day, inadequate facilities, you do the math!

 

EXACTLY.... Asking for trouble really innit...? It's just generally symptomatic of how fans, good OR bad, are treated by the authorities... I don't defend what Gers fans did, but you treat people like animals, well, you shouldn't exactly be suprised by the results tbh..... There was a monumental fukk up with the arrangements, trouble ensued, big suprise.... Also, good point about the £25 million boost to Manchester city coffers and the HUGE boost in business for the Pubs... Perhaps ICR would like to reply to that one..... :lol:

 

 

 

Well, that simply isn't true. It finished in 1984, a full 7 years after the famous Wembley incident.

 

I was thinking the same thing myself to be honest.. I remember watching a fair few Scotland/England games after this incident myself... Dunno what the hell Craig's prattling on about tbh......

Spot on.

 

Of course (the establishment) Margaret Thatcher and the Conservative government the following week at Question Time, were quick to point the blame at the Liverpool supporters for the Hillsborough Disaster.

 

After all the Manic Street Preachers recorded the song South Yorkshire Mass Murderers in "tribute" to their Police Force.

 

After all the Chief Sun Editor Kelvin MacKenzie in 1993 claimed his story was legitimised by the "reliable" source of the South Yorkshire chief superintendent David Duckenfield. Of course the Conservative government within a year gave an OBE to David Duckenfield when he retired early on full pay because of the stress of Hillsborough. Whilst in the 1990s the Conservative then sports minister David Mellor called Trevor Hicks (who lost his two daughters at Hillsborough) and was head of the Hillsborough Families Support Group a "trouble maker".

 

Whilst in 1990 the Taylor Report rubbished the vast majority of what the South Yorkshire Police had said, vindicating the Liverpool supporters of the blame.

 

100% FULL TRUTH.... The "coverage" of the Hillsborough disaster was nothing short of fukkin' scandalous... All these bloody coppers who got "compensation" for "stress" while the families of the victims got sweet FA (pun absolutely intended...) frankly disgusted me... I reckon this one incident more than anything is what poisoned footie fans (not the thugs, but the fans in general...) against the Police.. And, as far as I have seen, the Police have really done nothing to try and rectify matters with fans given their continued general attitudes towards them.... Don't get me wrong, I dont like louts or football Yobs, but the Police don't just target them do they....? Friends of mine who go to games, who are really gentle, mild-mannered people who would never even think of starting trouble often complain of "the bloody police, acting like the Gestapo".... Well if that's what the actions of the police inspires in the more moderate fans.... -_- I think you get my point....

100,000+ people in centre of Manchester today - and non of them felt the need to smash the place up, or kick $h!t out of each other or the police.

 

Were any of these 100,000 people herded like animals into areas with inadequate facilities, harrassed and intimidated by the Police (like footie fans and people on Demos are on a regular basis...)....? Probably not.... -_-

 

I was thinking the same thing myself to be honest.. I remember watching a fair few Scotland/England games after this incident myself... Dunno what the hell Craig's prattling on about tbh......

 

Indeed - we had the Rous cup annually up until 1989 - I don't actually know why they stopped after that - probably because both teams were involved in Italia 90 and the bigger clubs were probably beginning to complain about their players being involved in 'trivial' games.

 

Anyway, to recap - nothing to do with fans at all.

I think there would have been more arrests if the police hadn't been getting chased through the City Centre by hordes of Rangers fans. It's kind of hard to arrest people when you're in full retreat and trying to reach safety. TBH I don't think I would lay much weight on the small number of arrests last Wednesday. :P

 

I think last Wednesday was a combination of factors. I'll tell you something though, I fully expected a riot. Win or lose, I expected a riot. I was not surprised in the slightest.

 

Here's a shocking statistic I was reading in the paper the other day- they now reckon 5% of the total population of Scotland left for Manchester last week. :huh:

Here's a shocking statistic I was reading in the paper the other day- they now reckon 5% of the total population of Scotland left for Manchester last week. :huh:

 

Blimey!!!!!! :o Surely it was not that much.

Population of Scotland is 5 million. They now reckon over 200,000 were in Manchester. Loads more I think only made it to Blackpool! :lol:

 

Is that about 5%?