Firstly, I'd like to say I'm not going to say it doesn't exist, I'm just going to say it doesn't have anywhere nears as much of an effects as idiots like Terry Wogan and the Sun's Bizzare editor say it does. The order of point might not be completely logical, but it's mainly a (rather good, I think) collection of posts I've made on various forums.

 

People don't vote for countries just because they're neighbouring them, or because they're politically close, it's also about musical tastes. In similar parts of the world tastes are similar. Take the Icelandic song, it was my second favourite of the night behind the French entry. But lookng at it, it was as camp as a row of pink tents. Now this sort of stuff just isn't popular in the East. It didn't only get 5 points from the East due to politcal, neighbourly or dispora votes, it only got five points because that kind of song isn't favoured in the East.

 

The Russian entrant, Dima Bilan, he's been around for a while now, he represented Russia in 2006 too. He's previously released three albums and has won awards for Best Performer, Best Song and Best Artist as well as a worldwide award for Best Selling Russian Artist. He is a HUGE name, not only in Russia but in Eastern Europe. One of his singles last year spent 8 weeks at the top of the Eastern European Airplay Chart. He's a huge success throughout Eastern Europe. Did they vote for him because he's from a neighbouring country? Well partly I'd imagine, but they also voted him because he's a recognisable artist and the song was the kind of song they like.

 

Mika released his album last year and it's been top 3 in Ireland, France, Belgium, Norway, Switzeland, Netherlands and "Europe" as a whole. "Relax (Take It Easy)" was top 3 in 14 countries throughout Europe. "Grace Kelly" was top 3 in 13 countries throughout Europe. If he had been our entrant and he'd entered a song similar to one of these two, you can bet the majority of these countries would recognise him, like him, and vote for him. It's the same principle as countries where Dima Bilan has had success in voting for him. But let's face it, sending someone like Mika won't ever happen. We're only ever going to send someone who's barely had any success in Britian, let alone anywhere in continental Europe.

 

As for the UK always doing rubbish, when was the last time we sent a decent song? Or even a song which wasn't complete rubbish? Oh, yes, that'd be when we went with Jessica Garlick. And when was the last time we had a result that wasn't complete embarassment? Oh, yes, it was when we went with Jessica Garlick. Do people honestly believe that us going with rubbish like Javine, Jemini, Scooch, Daz and Andy should've resulted in success?

 

Israel came 9th last night. They have no neighbours who enter Eurovision, they aren't exactly liked politically anywhere, so why did they do well? Maybe it's because people actually liked the song.

 

I generally say the best songs always do well and the winner is always amongst the best songs, that's why in the last 14 years we've had 14 different winners. If political voting actually had that much of an effect, surely it'd be the same few countries winning again and again with maybe with the odd anomoly thrown in?

 

Austra, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Hungary, Malta, Norway, Poland, Sweden, Switzerland and The Netherlands ALL voted for Serbia in their top 3 last year, were these 'political' votes? Did they vote for them because they're neighbours? The simple truth is no, they voted because the song was good and had mass appeal. The winning song gets points from the majority of countries. Ok, so there is always going to be politcal or neighbourly voting, and countries like Serbia and Russia aren't likely to finish outside the top 8, but the reason why so many Eastern countries do well, is because they take it seriously, here in the West, they see Eurovision as a bit of light-hearted fun, a bit of a joke. As a result, the entrants we have are always seen in the same way, a joke. A lot of countries send some of their most successful and talented acts, when was the last time we did that? When have we sent a Mika? Or a Girls Aloud? Or a Morrissey? Never. The last two years we've sent an X-Factor reject and a group who's career and style of music were flushed down the toilet nearly a decade ago! Go anywhere East of Poland and that would never happen.

 

Also, look at our last three entries, none of them are anything like anything else that's been entered for Eurovision in that point. Also, look at our charts, when was the last time you saw anything like 'Flying The Flag' or 'Even If' having any kind of success in the charts? The answer is a long time. In short, not only are our songs not representitive of Europe's tastes (which would be understandable for finishing towards the bottom) they're not even slightly representitive of our own taste!! Why would anyone vote for us?!

 

Take an example of the Nordic/Scandanavian countries, all 5 Nordic countries were in the final tonight, and as you can probably guess, they all voted for each other. But which of those 5 songs was actually the best song? Norway, no contest. And that is why it finished head and shoulders above the rest, because not only did it have neighbourly voting, it was an excellent song which got the rest of Europe to vote for it too and put it in the top 5. Whereas the Swedish entry, although loved on forums such as this, was really quite average. Like with Norway it got points from the other Nordic's, but unlike Norway, the song wasn't strong enough to get points from the rest of Europe!

 

 

FINALLY!

You get Eurovision ^_^

I agree with you 100%! :cheer:

+ this was a very nice read ^_^

.... and the best post of the week goes to RabbitFurCoat who understands how Eurovision works.

 

Not some older person who never watched the competition or only watched the results and then moans about anti-British bias (because they've heard the result on the news & agree with Terry Wogan's bitter Xenophobic comments) because the UK finish last with a dated song that is a very inferior rip off of Sydney Youngblood's If Only I Could, performed by someone who danced like a Dad/Uncle dancing at a wedding. While the song is so popular in the UK it can't even make the iTunes Top 100.....

*standing ovation*

 

 

As someone said, you so GET it!! This is what it's all about!!

Can we send this to Auntie Beeb for next year with a plea for an amazing song & vocalist plz!?

I echo what TIP, just said, I give Mark a giant Cookie biscuit, talk about spot on, interesting read.

BBC should go all out next year and try to get Sugababes or Girls Aloud as their internal choice and make a fantastic pop song and frickin win!!!

so we gonna be somewhere in the Kingdom for ESC 2010 :w00t:

Nice read. I agree to, I use to think it was all political, but when you post something like that it deffinatly puts it into a different clear prespective!

As for the UK always doing rubbish, when was the last time we sent a decent song? Or even a song which wasn't complete rubbish? Oh, yes, that'd be when we went with Jessica Garlick. And when was the last time we had a result that wasn't complete embarassment? Oh, yes, it was when we went with Jessica Garlick. Do people honestly believe that us going with rubbish like Javine, Jemini, Scooch, Daz and Andy should've resulted in success?

I can't agree at all with this - Javine is the sort of firey, sexy pop which is absolutely perfect for Eurovision. That song's failure to do anything proves how tactical the voting is, as if we didn't know anyway. :heehee:

I can't agree at all with this - Javine is the sort of firey, sexy pop which is absolutely perfect for Eurovision. That song's failure to do anything proves how tactical the voting is, as if we didn't know anyway. :heehee:

Or maybe how bad her performance was on the night? :lol:

 

We just need to send a decent, repetitive, loud, catchy pop song., like what Ukraine sent. 'Touch My Fire' was very lukewarm, just like everything else we've sent in the past 5 years.

I can't agree at all with this - Javine is the sort of firey, sexy pop which is absolutely perfect for Eurovision. That song's failure to do anything proves how tactical the voting is, as if we didn't know anyway. :heehee:

 

If you remember which you obviously don't.

 

She had a sore throat or a bout of tonsillitis (and the day before the final it was debatable whether she was going to compete), I remember the jokes the day before about flying Jordan (Katie Price) out to sing :lol:

 

Therefore on the night when she did perform she sung little better than Jemini did, and finished a desrved bottom six placing.

I can't agree at all with this - Javine is the sort of firey, sexy pop which is absolutely perfect for Eurovision. That song's failure to do anything proves how tactical the voting is, as if we didn't know anyway. :heehee:

 

Javine was c**p mate... And if you don't think so, then you obviously never watched the performance on the night... She was frankly very, very average. There's a reason why Javine's pop career failed to ignite, she's c**p, end of....

 

RFC's post is utterly spot on, as is his assessment of our own entries... Jessica Garlick aside, we have consistently entered utter cack for about the past decade running... Quite an amazing feat for a country that boasts probably the most imaginitive and diverse musical scene in Europe.... We have Goldfrapp, we have Morrissey, we have P J Harvey, we have Roots Manuva, we have Portishead, we have Radiohead, we have Ladytron, we have Client, we have Kate Bush, we have thousands of other great acts/bands out there..... We can do a bit better than sodding Andy Abrahams (or indeed Jemini, Scooch, Daz Sampson, Javine, et al....) and his p***-poor attempts at "soul".....

Agree completly with you Mark.

 

I really thought Javine had a good chance of doing well back in 2005 but obviously her performance was devastating for obvious reasons.

Firstly, I'd like to say I'm not going to say it doesn't exist, I'm just going to say it doesn't have anywhere nears as much of an effects as idiots like Terry Wogan and the Sun's Bizzare editor say it does. The order of point might not be completely logical, but it's mainly a (rather good, I think) collection of posts I've made on various forums.

 

People don't vote for countries just because they're neighbouring them, or because they're politically close, it's also about musical tastes. In similar parts of the world tastes are similar. Take the Icelandic song, it was my second favourite of the night behind the French entry. But lookng at it, it was as camp as a row of pink tents. Now this sort of stuff just isn't popular in the East. It didn't only get 5 points from the East due to politcal, neighbourly or dispora votes, it only got five points because that kind of song isn't favoured in the East.

 

Well some of this maybe true esp if you are taking a Songlines Magazine - but as far as commercial pop music goes there not that much of difference between what is produced in say in one European country to an other- apart from say differing languages - you just have to look at a popular music compilation series like Now Thats What I Call Music - theres overlaps between the UK ones, the American ones, the Thai ones, the Czech ones, the Dansk ones, the Aussie ones - in fact the only part people may have 'trouble'.'be totally alien to' is with a Now Dance Arabia compilation (see below for track listings):

 

However there might be a point to make in the nature of camp that may be alien to viewers outside certain Westernn countries who view it wit irony, cynacism and bad taste camp - where as countries without the history of dodgy 1970s, 1980s - 1990s clip shows - prob view it more seriously.

 

However also I guess there may be slight 'political' voting going on - not actually to do with anything really political just the fact after being bombarded with so many song that merge all into one - its easier just to remember a country rather than the artist

 

Now Dance Arabia:

 

1. El Ead Albou - Baha Sultan

2. Baddi Hebik - Melhim Zain

3. Reyeh Balak - Tamer

4. Zai el Soukar - Diana Hadad

5. Wahda Wahda - Mohamed Hamaki

6. Ana Habbet - Weal Jasser

7. Alaf ve Teh - Darine Hadchiti

8. Hizzi Ya Nawaem - Saed Mrad

9. Omri - Chebba Maria

10. Wehyatek - Carol Sameha

11. Makanak - Bushra

12. Neqsim el Amar - Walid Toufic

13. Jaya ala Bali - Raya

14. Ma Fi Illa Inta - Darine

15. Ana Micth Elak - Akksaser

16. Unbreakable - RadiOrient

17. J Voulais - Big Ali (Amin remix)

18. Kam Lella - Mirage Hits

19. Allem Belhal - Mahamed Atteya

 

 

NOW HITY 16 - Czech Republic

 

01. Vengaboys - Shalala Lala

02. Precious - Rewind

03. Jamelia - Money

04. Billie Piper - Day & Night

05. Backstreet Boys - Show Me The Meaning Of Being Lonely

06. Lucie Silvas - It's Too Late

07. Doves - Catch The Sun

08. Kelis - Caught Out There

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004SUZ6.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

09. Worlds Apart - I Will

10. Maggie Reilly - Always You

11. Sasha - Let Me Be The One

12. Lene Marlin - Where I'm Headed

13. Liza Da Costa - Banana Coco

14. Cuban Boys - Inertia Kicks

15. Passion Fruit - Wonderland

16. Eyes Cream - Magdalena

17. X-Treme - Viva La Discoteca

18. Unique II vs. Sheila Fernandez - Forever

19. Dj Aligator Project - The Whistle Song

 

Now 19 Denmark:

 

http://img.kelkoo.com/dk/medium/756/328/121668605189255727034513776592303328756.jpg

 

Private / My Secret Lover

TV-2 / Randers Station

Amy Winehouse / Tears Dry On Their Own

Maroon 5 / Wake Up Call

Sugababes / About You Now

Sean Kingston / Beautiful Girl

Jamie Scott & The Town / When Will I See Your Face Again

Justin Timberlake / Summerlove

Beth Hart / Over You

Magtens Korridorer / Pandora

Nik & Jay / Op På Hesten

Nelly Furtado feat. Juanes / Te Busque

Akon / Sorry, Blame It On Me

Bryan Rice / Good News

Anna David / Chill

Kate Nash / Foundation

KNA Connected / Jeg Er Din Radio

The Frey / Over My Head

Kleerup feat. Robyn / With Every Heartbeat

Alphabeat / Fantastic 6

 

Now 18 Denmark:

 

Scissor Sisters / I Dont Feel Like Dancin

Robbie Williams / Rudebox

Rihanna / Unfaithfull

Justin Timberlake / Sexy Back

Nik & Jay / Når Et Lys Slukkes

Christina Aguilera / Aint No Other Woman

Jokeren, L.O.C, Niarn / Gravøl

Nelly Furtado Feat Timbaland / Promiscous

Thomas Helmig / Aldrig Sige Aldrig Mere

Shakira / Illegal

Chamilionaire / Ridin

Bryan Rice / Can't Say Im Sorry

Pussycat Dolls / Buttons

Darin / Step Up

Keane / Crystal Ball

Outlandish / I Only Ask Of God

Eran / Thelma

Fergie / London Bridge

Eamon / Bring Him Home

Pink / U+Ur Hand

 

 

DIVERSE - Take No c**p - Alle Tiders 90'er Hits (2-CD)

 

Review:

Så er den her og den er IKKE til at komme udenom. Vi har samlet de absolut STØRSTE hits fra 90'erne, dem man kan tåle at høre igen og igen. Med sange som Heavy D. & The Boys med "Now That We Found Love", Dr. Alban "Sing Halleluljah", "Cut'n Move "Take No c**p", M People "Moving On Up", Haddaway "What Is Love", Adamski "Killer", Bobby Brown "Two Can Play That Game, Snap "Rhythm Is A Dancer", osv. osv. er der ikke et dansegulv der vil stå stille i det ganske land

 

2 Pac - California Love

Ace Of Base - All That She Wants

Adamski - Killer

Aqua - Barbie Girl

Blackbox - Ride On Time

Blackstreet - No Digity

Bob Marley/Funkstar - Sun Is Shining

Bobby Brown - Two Can Play That Game

Brandy & Monica - The Boy Is Mine

Cher - Believe

Chrystal Waters - Gypsy Woman La Da De

Coolio - Gangsta Paradise

Corona - Rhythm Of The Night

Culture Beat - Mr. Vain

Cut 'N' Move - Get Serious - Take No c**p

Dee Lite - Grove Is In The Heart

Den Gale Pose - Spændt Op

Depeche Mode - Personal Jesus

Diana King - Shy Guy

Dr. Alban - Sing Halelujah

Dr. Alban - Its My Life

Dr. Baker - Turn Up The Music

Drømhus - Vil Ha Dig

EBTG - Missing

Eiffel 65 - Blue

Faithless - Insomnia

George Michael - Killer

George Michael - Fastlove

Haddaway - What Is Love

Heavy D - Now That We Found Love

Inner Circle - Sweat - A la la la la long

Janet Jackson - That's The Way Love Goes

La Bouche - Be My Lover

Lisa Stansfield - All Around The World

M People - Moving On Up

Mark Morrison - Return Of The Mac

Mousse T - Horny

Night Crawlers - Push The Feeling

N-Trance - Staying Alive

Snap - Rhythm Is A Dancer

Snoop Dog - Whats My Name

Sound Of Seduction - Welcome To My World

Stereo Mc's - Connected

Treble & Bass - Sweet Senorita

Ultra Nate - Free

not as wideranging as a Songlines Free Cd is it now:

 

http://www.afropop.org/img/world_music/african_music/wa/mali/a/q-zSalif-songlines.jpg

I was sitting with a Eurovision obsessive last night who knew absloutely everything about it, but kept going on and on about political voting. I felt like saying all this to him, but I think it would've ruined the night for everyone :heehee: Good post! :D

Hello, I'm French, and I watched the contest yesterday, as I have for years now.

 

RabbitFurCoat, I agree with you, I'd say 90% of what you say is true. The UK is the world's best place for discovering musical talents in very different styles. I've always been a big fan of British music, and I'll always be. But it's true that as far as the ESC is concerned they don't get the point!!! How would the UK ever be in the TOP 10 with such non-sense songs? Andy Abraham is actually a very good singer, but throughout his song, we could say "where's the tune"???? Its was not a good song, although I do think it was much better than last year's Scooch, probably the worst British entry of all time.

 

Let's talk about France now. The last time we were in the TOP 5, was in 2002. Since, we had sent completely awful songs, which I don't even remember! Last year we decided to send a rock group. It was a fun song, because I guess we were fed up with taking the Contest too seriously (although much of the French haven't cared for it for years!). Of course, the song was a failure (and actually was bad!) and we finished at the bottom.

This year we sent Sebastien tellier, an excellent artist, which is quite "famous", on the electronic scene. His song, I think, was excellent and would have deserved a higher place. But I guess it was too "underground", not easy.

 

When you say people actually vote for good songs, I only partially agree with you. The songs in the TOP 3 were definitely not my type of songs. But I agree they were very catchy, very pop, and I agree when you say Russia sent a megastar. My choice would've been Norway, because of its soul-Amy Winehouse-although-typically-sing-along-pop-Eurovision (the old way, way back in the 70's). The song would've won 10-15 years ago.

 

Let's face it, nowadays, there's a ratio problem. There's always been diaspora voting. I'd rather call it diaspora than political. It has nothing to do with politics, just about minorities living in a neighbour country. That's it. Scandinavian countries have always given points to each other. Think about Cyprus and Greece. Germany give points to Turkey. Even France give points to Portugal. It's always been like this, especially since televoting was instaured.

The difference now, is that more and more countries do so. Think about Yugoslavia and all the countries that were created since its partition. And think about Russia and all the countries that belonged to the USSR...

 

I really think there's a problem of regional tastes (as you said), and a problem of how good a song is, but the main problem is diaspora voting, because if you take the Norwegian entry, it always got points, but very often 5-6 points, because the 8-10-12 were reserved for diaspora voting. Imagine you are Russian, and you live in Ukraine... You give your 12 points to Russia, of course! It's the same if you are Swedish and you live in Norway.

 

BUT Greece is NOT an Eastern country, and went into the Top 3. Her song was catchy for the majority of countries (I say it was awfully camp!) and thus deserved her place, full stop. The Russian entry had votes from most of the countries, thus also deserved his place. The diaspora voting only accelerated the process. Maybe the TOP 5 would have been in another order, but I guess it wouldn't have been really different. I guess Greece or Norway might have won.

 

There's just no way of changing it. The only point would be to re-instaure jury voting, but as texts bring money, they will never change it! That would be the only way things could be fair again. But still, people can vote for anybody, neighbours or not. I don't like the way Terry Wogan reacted, and how lots of people agreed with him. It can get very xenophobiac. The UK just has to really send a good entry to change the trends.

 

And anyway, taking part is the main point, getting a good place is better, but winning is reserved for ONE country, so there will always be 1/25 chance for it! It's true that I miss some countries which were in a long time ago (Italy, Luxembourg, etc...). But the Contest has changed and every year people say one or more of the Big 4 will drop, but they're still in. Eventually they may drop, but for the wrong reasons. And don't forget the UK hasn't won since 1997, we haven't for 31 years!!! And we were even deprived of or joint-victory in 1991!

 

Au revoir et à bientôt.

A good post RabbitFurCoat and I agree with most of it. It's important to add that the big four are at a big disadvantage of only having had there entry played once prior to voting unlikely all those that qualified in the semi-final which had at least twice.

 

I don't agree, and didn't even bother to read all of it.

It's not about the winner solely - he will indeed be different every year, but within the same choice range. If you say that having THE SAME countries in Top 10 every year is ok, I guess the discussion is meaningless. If you think it's ok for Portugal to end 2nd in semifinal, then 13th in final, and Russia vice versa, then you're "Believing" it too much.

I find no fun in a contest which is so predictable. I could say the points of all 43 countries last night before they even announced them. And I got them right.

And please don't tell me I don't understand how ESC works, because I understand it pretty well. As you see, I come from an Eastern, Balkan country, and I can assure you everyone here thinks ESC voting is a political joke, everyone thought so even when we got our 5th place last year.

I understand most of you dislike your singer Andy (and preivous entries as well), but that should not make you have such illusions about the contest.

BUT Greece is NOT an Eastern country, and went into the Top 3

 

Yes it is. (Greece is the dark green)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Location_Greece_EU_Europe.png

 

But i am on the fence. I don't really fully understand eurovision because i'm not a huge fan of it, but there is SOME political voting in it. The West Balkan Countries are really close together, many people there may be only a few miles from the next country, i think they will vote for the neighbouring country. Also when the 8-10-12 points came up, i was guessing the points that the countries gave. I was guessing who would be given 8-12 points from the country, and i was right 75% of the time, but often in a different order. It was more predictable with the Eastern Europe countries aswell. The point is i only saw the last two performances, and the highlights of all the countries, so i didn't even hear the full version of the songs. Which proves the point that it isn't a song contest at all, because someone with an ok geography can predict the 8, 10 and 12 pointers without even hearing the song.

 

Now before you all shout at me...........

 

I agree with the other side though, the eastern european countries take it a bit more seriously i think, and they have better entrants, from what ive been told. Also taste may be similar, but the songs? Are they all similar? I doubt it.

 

For the eastern european countries the points 1 to 6 seemed to be fairly random, with a mix of neighbours with seemingly weak songs, and faraway countries with seemingly good songs. 10 and 12 definately, and 7 and 8 sometimes seemed to be based around the neighbours, but i don't know whether the songs were good or not. But the 12 points seemed to almost always go to the neighbour with the highest current score.

 

I think i'm on the "there is political voting" side, but im not as cynical as the commentator (i think it was Terry Wogan?) was.

Yes it is. (Greece is the dark green)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Location_Greece_EU_Europe.png

 

Absolute nonsense, Greece is closer geographically to NORTH AFRICA than it is to Russia or even the old "Eastern Bloc" territories.... If you actually read the UN's study on Europe, Greece is placed in "Southern Continental Europe" along with Spain, Portugal and Italy...

 

Of course, Greece is in the South-East of Europe!!!!! What I meant is that it wasn't in the Eastern Bloc, when the USSR still existed. Greece has been in the EEC, now the European Union since 1981. It has always been considered a Western country, not Eastern. That's the only thing I meant... I know my physical geography, thanx! :o)