ok... there was a task to be done, and she did it... however, she went way too far. there was no need to destroy communities. she crushed the ordinary working man whilst fascististically creating an environment for the rich to prosper. she bought votes by selling off the countries assets, she created the greed /selfish culture which manifests itself today ..

 

for every positive thing she did, she countered it with 2 negatives, THIS is why so many still hate her. churchill was never this loathed, he deserved a state funeral... the very fact that we are debating it is evidence enough that she simply does not qualify.

 

Communities being destroyed was a by product of the closure of mines and so on but there has to be a time when the taxpayer says "enough is enough", these mines were absolutely haemmoraging cash just to prop up these communities and that is unsustainable, the mines were never going to make any money and I just don't believe in taxpayers cash being used to prop up lame duck unprofitable industries

 

 

I am a Southerner and I know that large chunks of British industry were IMPORTING coal from countries like Romania because it was cheaper to import coal than use British coal, the coal industry in the UK was a lame duck industry that should have been put to death long before it did as opposed to have taxpayers money thrown into out dated unprofitable mines that were never going to make any money, the mining unions were also over run with militants and class war socialists

 

Why should endless amounts of taxpayers money be thrown at lame duck industries that were just draining taxpayers cash while at the same time so expensive so expensive that European imports were better for business

 

Sure a lot of miners lost their jobs, $h!t happens, there should be no such thing as a job for life propped up by endless amounts of taxpayers cash

 

if the government INVESTED in the coal industry, then the mines WOULD have been profitable. thatcher deliberately ignored requests to invest reletively small amounts of money, to ensure the long term profitability of the mines... in order to smash the unions. she didnt have to do that, and reasonable person would have been 'on side' with a reasonable government.

New industries took their place though, Maggie got Sony to invest huge amounts in a factory in South Wales,

 

Your imagination runs riot - the Sony factory you refer to is in Pencoed..... and it was open long before the miner's strike. Plus, the areas she devastated are NOWHERE near Pencoed which is in the posh Vale of Glamorgan. She could have 'invested' billions into the factory - it would have made not a bit of difference to the communities she so happily ripped to shreds - areas that relied solely on the coal industry. Plus - don't you think any investment she apparently made - wouldn't it have been far wiser to have invested in the many BRITISH firms who were struggling in this area at the time? Did she EVER 'invest' in a British company?

 

In fact, my aunt worked at that very Sony factory you mention - and they allowed collections for the striking miners - you remember, the ones who, in 1984, lived off food from soup kitchens for daring to stand up for an industry that was being needlessly pummelled into the ground by Thatcher, who cared not a jot about the actual REASON for the strike - just that the stance she took made her look tough and uncompromising - and also because the fight was nothing more than a personal "I'm bigger than you" battle with Scargill who, despite his failings and Shredded Wheat hair, spoke only the full truth about the Tories plans for the mines and their reasons for destroying the industry, an industry that I suggest you do some research on because, far from being non-cost effective and virtually depleted of coal, was actually, as has been proved, CHEAPER than the alternatives...and in such abundance, there's talk at the moment of reopening many of the mines she closed down because of the huge stocks of coal still left there.

 

Your golden girl used the police as pawns in her game - I remember vividly the police waving their payslips saying "come on boys just another couple of weeks and the villa in Spain will be paid for"....to people who had been out of work and penniless and starving for over a year. In fact, I also remember the many, many 'policemen' on these marches who had no number on their arm. Why? Thatcher had pulled in the British Army and Royal Marines to assist with the battle - plus, the army seemed even more adept at beating up the miners than the police did - they especially liked using the truncheons, whereas the real police relied more on the dogs. I remember the miner's wives begging outside supermarkets. I remember the miner's children collecting hand-me-down clothes in shopping baskets round the streets.

 

You remember?

 

Nothing but the skewed media coverage of the strike. Your experience and knowledge ends there - so please don't pontificate to me about how Thatcher did the right thing during this strike.

 

It amazes me that you have so many repeated opinions on the miner's trike when your actual knowledge of the events are so minimal and confused. You really should read up on what really happened. And why it happened - because you seem, time and time again, way off the mark on this issue.

 

 

Communities being destroyed was a by product of the closure of mines and so on but there has to be a time when the taxpayer says "enough is enough", these mines were absolutely haemmoraging cash just to prop up these communities and that is unsustainable, the mines were never going to make any money and I just don't believe in taxpayers cash being used to prop up lame duck unprofitable industries

 

that's not true - you seem to have fallen hook, line and sinker for the 'official' line on these mines.... I live here... I know what went on...and I also know that these mines that were supposedly losing money were NOT losing money - at all.

 

Sometimes it'd serve you well NOT to believe all you read.

 

In fact, the mine quite close to me that the ex-miners bought from their redundancy was thriving until recently when, due to them being so successful, and being able to sell coal cheaper than anywhere, and of higher quality, they actually RAN OUT of coal - this is the very same pit Thatcher demanded be closed for losing money :rolleyes:

 

And, by the way, your absolute glibness on the fact that communities were destroyed by Thatcher's strike - MY community - is nothing short of repulsive - but it's indicative of your compassion toward anyone with less money than yourself or who dares speak against this vile, evil b**ch you supported. "Oh, so communities were closed down... ah - a by-product. Sad, isnt it?". How dare you.

Exactly, there's no point in saying that she made us this "fourth biggest economy" or whatever, when you're talking about the fact that the ordinary person was not benefitting in the slightest from it... Thatcherism was only of benefit to the few, NOT the many... Her selling off Gas, Electricity, Telecom, the buses, etc so bloody cheaply was nothing short of criminal...

 

When "Attila The Hen" took power in 1979, Great Britain had the 18th biggest economy in the world, by the time she left the UK was indeed the 4th biggest economy in the world.

 

BUT far more damning showing the true repugnant "benefits of Thatcherism":

 

In 1979 13% of British children were measured below the independently UN measured poverty line. But by 1990 28% of the children in Great Britain were considered to be below the poverty line (The highest within the EEC, when we were the 4th biggest economy in the World!!!! :angry:). In percentage terms this figure more than doubled due to the legacy of Thatcherism.

 

ALSO The Gini coefficient (is a measure of statistical dispersion most prominently used as a measure of inequality of income distribution or inequality of wealth distribution). In 1979 the UK's coefficient stood at 0.25 in 1979 the 2nd lowest of EEC members then; but in 1990 it had risen to 0.34 in 1990 - the highest within the EEC. In short the difference between the haves & the have nots grew substantially under Thatcherism.

 

 

Still "There's no such thing as Socialism" is there. :angry:

 

 

 

there you go craig.... 2 brilliant posts from tip and russ, you have to conceed that away from the medias version (and the tories) version of the thatcher years, things were FAR from 'hunky dory'... things [i[may[/i] have looked good on the face of it... but scratch the surface and beneath its all rotten.

 

there is a reason why so many level headed people hate thatcher....

Some of the articles in the Scottish press about the whole State Funeral for Thatch have been hilarious. One wit suggested blasting her out a torpedo hatch off the Falklands ( I think she was to be dead first but I'm not 100% certain :unsure: ). I've had quite a few chortles this week. :kink:

 

Thatcher detested Scotland and the Scots. And it was so reciprocated. :arrr:

oh why don't you p*** off back to East Landahn, you idiot.

 

What on earth would you, a southerner, a f***ing Londoner at that, know about the miner's strike? Zero - that's what.

 

You numb f***.

 

 

Excuse me but when you've finished the unnecessary swearing and name calling just because someone has a different opinion to you, please remember that some people don't stay in one part of the country all their lives. :lol: I've only been down here since 1994. I'm Yorkshire born and bred, from Barnsley, a true mining town so know a lot about the miner's strike, was 24 then. Still say the miners needed sorting out though. Scargill was too clever and too big for his boots.

Edited July 16, 200817 yr by Crazy Chris

Excuse me but when you've finished the unnecessary swearing and name calling just because someone has a different opinion to you, please remember that some people don't stay in one part of the country all their lives. :lol: I've only been down here since 1994. I'm Yorkshire born and bred, from Barnsley, a true mining town so know a lot about the miner's strike, was 24 then. Still say the miners needed sorting out though. Scargill was too clever and too big for his boots.

 

.... but scargill was RIGHT. everything he said about thatchers hit list was proven to be correct, thatcher LIED.

Some of Thatcher’s achievements :

 

1. Put up VAT to 15%

2. Abolished free school milk

3. Ruthlessly dumped colleagues, and treated Ted Heath with contempt

4. Sold of all the utility companies, so now they are owned by foreign companies or speculators

5. Cut funding for higher education

6. Introducing the universally hated “Poll Tax”

7. Sacked Chancellors if they disagreed with her, or forced them to resign

8. Introduced Section 28.

9. Was overthrown by her own party , no less.

10. Publicly supported General Pinochet

11. Saw Tony Blair as her natural successor,lol

 

 

I could think of more, but I think I have made my point.

Edited July 16, 200817 yr by brian91

I'm Yorkshire born and bred, from Barnsley, a true mining town so know a lot about the miner's strike, was 24 then. Still say the miners needed sorting out though. Scargill was too clever and too big for his boots.

 

you probably came from Thatcher's tacky 'new money' brigade, then, as no true Yorkshire man would ever say what you did.

 

Why on earth did the miners need 'sorting out'? :angry: What did they ever do apart from kill themselves working down filthy mines for a pittance? Don't you think they deserved any wage increase they asked for? Have you ever even been down a mine in your life? Before making statements like this, I suggest a little visit down a mine shaft - there's quite a few opened these days as museums - it would serve you well to do so.

 

Scargill was an a-hole - but, as Rob says, he spoke the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Thatcher, however, typically lied. She bullied the police, the media and even her own party into her fight. Because her fight it was.

 

As for swearing and namecalling - I edited what I originally wrote in reply to your first vile message - I thought my reply was untypically mild.

I'd hardly say miners got a pittance though. They got a good wage as far as I can remember.

I'd hardly say miners got a pittance though. They got a good wage as far as I can remember.

 

....... and worth every penny..

Excuse me but when you've finished the unnecessary swearing and name calling just because someone has a different opinion to you, please remember that some people don't stay in one part of the country all their lives. :lol: I've only been down here since 1994. I'm Yorkshire born and bred, from Barnsley, a true mining town so know a lot about the miner's strike, was 24 then. Still say the miners needed sorting out though. Scargill was too clever and too big for his boots.

 

Then you're nothing more than a stinking working class traitor..... Scab.... <_< I bet you were a strike-breaker and this is the reason for all your fukked-up bitterness against the Miners...

 

So, your criticism of Scargill was that he was "too clever", oh, that's just fukkin' PRICELESS...... Cleverer than YOU??? Well, that sure wouldn't be difficult.....

I'd hardly say miners got a pittance though. They got a good wage as far as I can remember.

 

Hmmm, jelousy perhaps....? Tried for a job down the mines but got turned down on the grounds of being just too bloody thick....? :lol: :lol:

 

Why do posters have to be so nasty here when they don't agree with someone? :angry: Can't we debate without all name calling and insults. Don't think I'll bother posting in this sub-forum any more. Seems you're only allowed to have the same opinions as the majority. Well sorry but we live in a Democracy.

Edited July 17, 200817 yr by Crazy Chris

Your imagination runs riot - the Sony factory you refer to is in Pencoed..... and it was open long before the miner's strike. Plus, the areas she devastated are NOWHERE near Pencoed which is in the posh Vale of Glamorgan. She could have 'invested' billions into the factory - it would have made not a bit of difference to the communities she so happily ripped to shreds - areas that relied solely on the coal industry. Plus - don't you think any investment she apparently made - wouldn't it have been far wiser to have invested in the many BRITISH firms who were struggling in this area at the time? Did she EVER 'invest' in a British company?

 

In fact, my aunt worked at that very Sony factory you mention - and they allowed collections for the striking miners - you remember, the ones who, in 1984, lived off food from soup kitchens for daring to stand up for an industry that was being needlessly pummelled into the ground by Thatcher, who cared not a jot about the actual REASON for the strike - just that the stance she took made her look tough and uncompromising - and also because the fight was nothing more than a personal "I'm bigger than you" battle with Scargill who, despite his failings and Shredded Wheat hair, spoke only the full truth about the Tories plans for the mines and their reasons for destroying the industry, an industry that I suggest you do some research on because, far from being non-cost effective and virtually depleted of coal, was actually, as has been proved, CHEAPER than the alternatives...and in such abundance, there's talk at the moment of reopening many of the mines she closed down because of the huge stocks of coal still left there.

 

Your golden girl used the police as pawns in her game - I remember vividly the police waving their payslips saying "come on boys just another couple of weeks and the villa in Spain will be paid for"....to people who had been out of work and penniless and starving for over a year. In fact, I also remember the many, many 'policemen' on these marches who had no number on their arm. Why? Thatcher had pulled in the British Army and Royal Marines to assist with the battle - plus, the army seemed even more adept at beating up the miners than the police did - they especially liked using the truncheons, whereas the real police relied more on the dogs. I remember the miner's wives begging outside supermarkets. I remember the miner's children collecting hand-me-down clothes in shopping baskets round the streets.

 

You remember?

 

Nothing but the skewed media coverage of the strike. Your experience and knowledge ends there - so please don't pontificate to me about how Thatcher did the right thing during this strike.

 

It amazes me that you have so many repeated opinions on the miner's trike when your actual knowledge of the events are so minimal and confused. You really should read up on what really happened. And why it happened - because you seem, time and time again, way off the mark on this issue.

 

Brilliant post Russ... Couldn't agree more...

 

...The police deliberately took their numbers off so no one could identify 'em, simple as.... If they couldn't identify them, well, they couldn't exactly report the b/astards for Police Brutality could they....? The police acted like Nazis during the Miners' strike... "Only following orders".... Bullsh!t... They loved it, couldn't get enough of beating up ordinary working people and getting away with it..... <_< How the Police acted during the Miners Strike was one of the many reasons why I grew to despise and distrust the Police Force.... I've seen first hand how they operate when I've been on various demos, deliberately winding people up so that they'll get someone p!ssed off enough to throw a punch.... There used to be a term for this sort of thing - Agents Provocateurs....

 

Why do posters have to be so nasty here when they don't agree with someone? :angry: Can't we debate without all name calling and insults. Don't think I'll bother posting in this sub-forum any more. Seems you're only allowed to have the same opinions as the majority. Well sorry but we live in a Democracy.

 

It's because you're talking absolute SH!TE and coming away with glib statements with no factual evidence such as "the miners needed sorting out" or "scargill was too clever"... How the hell are people supposed to react to rubbish like that Chris....? You talk sub-literate sh!te on this forum, you take the consequences.....

 

Seems you're only allowed to have the same opinions as the majority. Well sorry but we live in a Democracy.

 

This bit I have to disagree with

 

I am socially right of centre and economically right wing and am often a minority of one politically on here and I don't get insulted and name called well bar once when I overstepped the mark and got a 30 day ban so I would disagree that alternative opinions are not allowed on here

 

This bit I have to disagree with

 

I am socially right of centre and economically right wing and am often a minority of one politically on here and I don't get insulted and name called well bar once when I overstepped the mark and got a 30 day ban so I would disagree that alternative opinions are not allowed on here

 

Exactly, I mean, we aggressively disagree with each other, but at least you state an actual CASE and dont resort purely to glib pronouncements made to either relieve boredom or to deliberately wind people up.....

 

Frankly, I think this Crazy Chris character is in the ElPRES or Callum league tbh..... And we saw off those two wind-up tossers.....