Posted October 22, 200816 yr well not according to official statistics, apparently theres upto 4000 ex servicemen in jail! many turning to drink and drugs after de-mob as they failed to get a job or to cope with their experiences. (indeed good old jezza kyle had an ex army medic on ... he was drinking himself to death (and succeeded) due to the sights he saw in bosnia.
October 22, 200816 yr Exactly.... All National Service would actually do is to create a better thug..... So, now they would know which parts of the body to stick a knife into to ensure quick or painful death.... They would know how to use a firearm effectively and with more accuracy... Why is there an assumption that National Service should even be about the army anyway...? Why cant "National Service" be something like working with kids or old people in the person's own community..? These people need to learn responsibility, not square-bashing or field-stripping an SA80 rifle, which wont really prove anything or make them better people... If we are to have "National Service", it should be more Community Service, and I reckon it ought to be compulsory....
October 24, 200816 yr Exactly.... All National Service would actually do is to create a better thug..... So, now they would know which parts of the body to stick a knife into to ensure quick or painful death.... They would know how to use a firearm effectively and with more accuracy... Why is there an assumption that National Service should even be about the army anyway...? Why cant "National Service" be something like working with kids or old people in the person's own community..? These people need to learn responsibility, not square-bashing or field-stripping an SA80 rifle, which wont really prove anything or make them better people... If we are to have "National Service", it should be more Community Service, and I reckon it ought to be compulsory.... I don't fully agree... I've known a few guys (my cousin being one of them) who were total misfits, in and out of school and always in trouble. In the case of my cousin, joining the armed forces really did put him on the right path. Some people will only learn discipline if there's someone screaming it into their face. He really grew up, became more independent, mature and intelligent. And most of all, respect. The difference is, I suppose, it was before 2001 so he was never in a combat situation. What puts people on the right track is the character-building, the discipline, the teamwork, the respect. Not necessarily witnessing war or combat. I share your concern for encouraging violence to those who may already have violent tendencies.
October 24, 200816 yr Wasn't it reported somewhere lately though that a sizeable proportion of the UK prison population was actually made up of ex-army people? And I don't mean the wardens! Norma Edited October 24, 200816 yr by Norma_Snockers
October 24, 200816 yr My flatmates mentioned this the other day. Shoving all the Chavs into National Service to teach them a bit of discipline and get them away from the street corner (with the buckfast)
October 25, 200816 yr Oh god no. Chavs are chavs because they have chav parents. All they know is dole-sponging and all the other chav activities, therefore that's why they are the way they are. National service won't change a whole species. Wouldn't be a bad thing losing a few of them though.
October 26, 200816 yr Author Oh god no. Chavs are chavs because they have chav parents. All they know is dole-sponging and all the other chav activities, therefore that's why they are the way they are. National service won't change a whole species. Wouldn't be a bad thing losing a few of them though. :lol:....
October 26, 200816 yr I think National Service is the answer, but it doesnt have to extend to the army. Why not the navy, fire or as mentioned community service such as helping those who are less fortunate.
October 27, 200816 yr Author I think National Service is the answer, but it doesnt have to extend to the army. Why not the navy, fire or as mentioned community service such as helping those who are less fortunate. the article shows that national service doesnt prevent yobishness as many ex servicemen end up in jail. firemen are highly trained technicians, you cant put chavs in the fire service for 'community work'.
October 28, 200816 yr The difference is, I suppose, it was before 2001 so he was never in a combat situation. . Ahem, quite... Given what's going on now, I really dont think we should be sending teenagers into the army to be potentially used for cannonfodder in some ludicrous, Imperialist war... No matter how bad they may be, they dont really deserve to be used like this... The Draft/Conscription is morally wrong IMO.... I think you can imagine the absolute uproar such a suggestion would provoke in black and asian communities particularly... No, I genuinely believe that doing a community service should be the answer for youngsters to learn responsibility, I really dont buy that the armed forces are all that "character building" tbh, the instances of bullying, intimidation and harrassement seem to be skyrocketing amongst army personnel (look at instances such as Deep Cut for example), and as Rob says, many cant adjust to life in "civvy" street after witnessing horrors of war...
October 30, 200816 yr I think national service is great. But it has to be managed well. Norway's national service is excellent. You go if you want to go, and most do because it's only 10 months and it gives the guys something to do because it gets quite depressing there in Winter. Women can go if they want, but most don't. I dislike how France and Germany manage theirs. You are sent away for 1 year + and you are treated like c**p. I know Ireland is a neutral country, but we should have it just in case. I'd say 10 months but it's not compulsory. You'd be surprised at the amount of people who will do it.
October 31, 200816 yr I think national service is great. But it has to be managed well. Norway's national service is excellent. You go if you want to go, and most do because it's only 10 months and it gives the guys something to do because it gets quite depressing there in Winter. Slight difference, Norway doesn't send teenagers to get killed on the streets of Iraq or Afghanistan do they....? -_- And the boldened part is something that should be emphasised, it's voluntary innit, they're not drafting or conscripting young people, my whole problem with National Service in the armed forces is that it's compulsory, at the end of the day if we are to have a return to NS, then it should be a choice - either do your NS in the armed forces (with guarantees that you wont be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan to be used as cannon-fodder..), or NS within the community helping people....
November 1, 200816 yr Slight difference, Norway doesn't send teenagers to get killed on the streets of Iraq or Afghanistan do they....? -_- And the boldened part is something that should be emphasised, it's voluntary innit, they're not drafting or conscripting young people, my whole problem with National Service in the armed forces is that it's compulsory, at the end of the day if we are to have a return to NS, then it should be a choice - either do your NS in the armed forces (with guarantees that you wont be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan to be used as cannon-fodder..), or NS within the community helping people.... That's Military Service. As far as I know, there is a difference. MS is when there is more or less a recruitment crisis and kids are picked up off the street and sent to these horrible places. NS is the basic training of teens within their own country. Norway consider their NS as compulsory, but you can say you don't want to go and they are fine with that. And when I was there in the summer, I went walkabout in Stavanger and somehow managed to pass one of these camps. They were all quite young, but to be honest, it actually looked like they were having a good time. They seemed to be enjoying themselves and I think that's what it should all be about. I'm not suggesting that these guys go through hell for 10 months. I think that voluntary NS should help the teens learn the basics. I don't think they should be trained in combat, as I think that's something you should do when you register for the army. NS should be about training is serious situations like fire, robbery and outbreak of something harmful. Life skills would also be a huge part of the 10 month course. And of course, if you do this, you are most likely going to get that job you apply for. Most employers look out for the people who have completed their NS and they have great respect for them.
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