Dr Who is one of those characters that should stay white, to me it is like having a black Bond, ever since Dr Who started over 40 years ago Dr Who has been a white man and generations have grown up with a white Dr Who and that is the way it should remain, could you imagine a black Bond ?

 

That is not being racist

 

And you dont sound at ALL like a London Cabbie with this post.... :rolleyes: "I'm not racist, but, them bleedin' Samboes, coming in, taking our acting roles, sleepin' wif our women, it's aht of owdaaahhhhhhhh innit.....". :P :lol:

 

But then again Craig, why should we be at all surprised by anything you say....? I mean, you're the bloke who advocated exterminating The Palestinians, so, the phrase involving "leopards" and "spots" springs almost immediately to mind when I read a post of yours like this..... :P

 

Political Correctness rearing its ugly head again,

 

And, there's the idiot mantra once again.... Whenever someone actually comes up with a bit of a radical idea to try and shake things up a bit or go off in a slightly different direction to the established path, people like you come up with this meaningless buzzphrase designed to provoke all the idiots out there..... It has FUKK ALL to do with "political correctness" (whatever that means), the producers just want to try something which is a bit different and deviates slightly from the "norm".... JESUS EFFING CHRIST MAN, we are talking about Science Fiction here after all...... :rolleyes:

 

It used to be in the 60s and 70s that all coppers on TV were fukkin' WHITE GUYS (despite the fact that there actually were police officers from ethnic minorities serving in the force back then, and, er, not to mention the thousands of police WOMEN as well....)..... So, er, we should just stick to that established "norm" of TV drama should we...? Fukk off....

Oh, and Craig, Rob, I went to see Ridley Scott's new film "Body of Lies" the other week, and Mark Strong, a British actor descended from Italian and Austrian parentage plays an Arab secret service agent, and does a pretty damn good job of it too..... :rolleyes:

 

Is that "Political Correctness" as well then.....? :P

I'm sorry mate, but you and Craig are totally wrongheaded on this... There is absolutely NO REASON AT ALL for The Doc to not change into a black guy, or Asian or a female (The Doctor is a BLOODY ALIEN SHAPE-SHIFTER FFS :lol: :lol: :lol: ), and your comparison to Mohammed Ali, is a bloody stupid one... The Doctor DOES NOT EXIST in reality, Mohammed Ali is a real person.... You perhaps could have gotten away with a comparison to Kunta Kinte (from the book, TV series, "Roots"), but again, white slaves in the Southern US :lol: , nah, wouldn't work really.... Doctor Who has no such basis in reality at all, it is SCIENCE FICTION mate, so no reason to keep him to one particular race or ethncity or even gender, just "because that's the way it always has been", blah, blah, bollocks, that's just being bloody minded and stupid....

 

Personally, I'm not sure about the bloke they actually picked (I've not seen him in much tbh, only really Green Wing and Jekyll, and I wasn't entirely convinced by him in the latter I have to say, his American accent was just...Odd...), but the idea itself isn't really so barmy, maybe just pick a better, more well-known black actor.. If the producers cast someone like Morgan Freeman, Forrest Whittaker or Sam Jackson in the role, quite the opposite of your foolish assumption that viewing figures would "plummet", viewing figures would do entirely the OPPOSITE, they would go through the roof; so dont try to make out that people on a principle wouldn't watch a black actor play The Doctor, because that is just pure rubbish. My only doubts is whether they chose the right black actor to play the part, I reckon the guy who used to play Danny in Spooks (David Oyelowo) would've been a better choice, or perhaps Colin Salmon who has already been in Dr Who (he played Dr Moon) as well as being in loads of films and TV shows....

 

They talked about a Female Doctor not so long ago, which would've been well cool actually... And given her role in the Terminator series (as a T1000), perhaps a spot for Shirley Manson....? If not as The Doctor, I reckon she might make a pretty good Companion tbh....

 

dr who has always been cast as a middle aged white eccentric... theres NO reason to change that, like craig says 'a black james bond next'? so what if hes a fictional character...ok lets have a white 'othello' then! but like i said, it has nothing to do with race....its got everything to do with the pc arseholes at the bbc speaking on ethnics behalf.

 

has there been a call from black men that dr who should be black?

was there a call from muslim women that they arnt resprisented in robin hood?

was there a call from black women that all women in period dramas are white?

 

NO! this is just another example of fcukin do gooders creating friction , the same do gooders who support positive discrimination... its all bollox, they should stick to the historic/factual plot.

 

i predict that viewing figures WILL fall anyway when the very popular david tennant leaves, he is, possibly the best dr who ever (though some of the storylines arnt as imaginitive as those early ones). hartnell, troughton, pertwee, t baker played the role brilliantly as has tennant so changing this iconic figure will have a detrimental effect, and the storylines are now getting pretty tired.... whos turn at crimbo? cybermen i believe! yawn.

Oh, and Craig, Rob, I went to see Ridley Scott's new film "Body of Lies" the other week, and Mark Strong, a British actor descended from Italian and Austrian parentage plays an Arab secret service agent, and does a pretty damn good job of it too..... :rolleyes:

 

Is that "Political Correctness" as well then.....? :P

 

dont be silly.... it doesnt work that way around <_<

It used to be in the 60s and 70s that all coppers on TV were fukkin' WHITE GUYS (despite the fact that there actually were police officers from ethnic minorities serving in the force back then, and, er, not to mention the thousands of police WOMEN as well....)..... So, er, we should just stick to that established "norm" of TV drama should we...? Fukk off....

 

oh yeah?... scource please! cos ethnic and female coppers were as rare as rockinghorse $h!t in the 60's!

dont be silly.... it doesnt work that way around <_<

 

But the point I'm making is, if a Brit can play an Arab, why cant a black guy (or a woman) play The Doctor...? You haven't actually addressed the point...

oh yeah?... scource please! cos ethnic and female coppers were as rare as rockinghorse $h!t in the 60's!

 

I was thinking more of the 70s tbh...

 

But it does not alter the point in any way, if TV drama just sticks to the way things are and does not respond to the changing times, then it runs the risk of becoming laughable and irrelevant....

 

Look at "Eastenders" ffs, exactly what part of the East End are they representing...? Because I fukkin' LIVED in Hackney for two years, it was full of Turks, Afro Caribbeans, Greeks, Bangladeshis and Eastern Europeans..... :lol: :lol: The East End that exists in "Eastenders" is an East End of the 1950s or 60s..... :rolleyes:

 

dr who has always been cast as a middle aged white eccentric... theres NO reason to change that, like craig says 'a black james bond next'? so what if hes a fictional character...ok lets have a white 'othello' then! but like i said, it has nothing to do with race....its got everything to do with the pc arseholes at the bbc speaking on ethnics behalf.

 

has there been a call from black men that dr who should be black?

was there a call from muslim women that they arnt resprisented in robin hood?

was there a call from black women that all women in period dramas are white?

 

NO! this is just another example of fcukin do gooders creating friction , the same do gooders who support positive discrimination... its all bollox, they should stick to the historic/factual plot.

 

i predict that viewing figures WILL fall anyway when the very popular david tennant leaves, he is, possibly the best dr who ever (though some of the storylines arnt as imaginitive as those early ones). hartnell, troughton, pertwee, t baker played the role brilliantly as has tennant so changing this iconic figure will have a detrimental effect, and the storylines are now getting pretty tired.... whos turn at crimbo? cybermen i believe! yawn.

 

Well, Daniel Craig is a blonde Bond, so one can argue that a change has occurred in some ways.... :rolleyes:

 

And the points you make are stupid ones... Black people were not around as an ethnic group in period times, and these dramas, though fiction, do have some basis in history and belongs to a certain place and time, so I can take your point there.. Dr Who, I obviously need to point out once again, is SCIENCE FICTION, therefore it does NOT HAVE TO conform to any one time or place, its only limitations is the imaginations of the script-writers... So, they CAN make The Doctor a woman or a black person because it has been established that The Doctor CHANGES BODIES.... :rolleyes: He is NOT HUMAN, he is NOT some historical construct as a character in a Jane Austen novel or Othello was (again, another BLOODY STUPID comparison because the whole purpose of Shakespeare's play is to establish a conflict between a black and white man on racial grounds, so, er, how does that one work if Othello's a white geezer, pillock.... Othello is about RACE, like DUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHH.... -_- ). I mean, sorry, but what historical and factual elements are there to Dr Who ffs....????? :lol: :lol: :lol: To repeat AGAIN, it's SCIENCE FICTION..... It has precious little basis in history, and absolutely none at all in fact.... You can say that it works on an allegorical level and that the characters symbolise certain things, but that aint the same thing.. At all.... Dr Who has about as much historical and factual content as "Star Wars" or "Star Trek"....

 

I wont argue about the dullness of some of Dr Who's scripts, because I think you KNOW how I feel about much of Russell T Davis' work, I dont like him much, bottom line....

 

I dont see it as PC, I see it as trying something that's a bit different (you know, a bit like Bob Dylan plugging in an electric guitar to modernize Folk Music :rolleyes: )... You and Craig are obviously WAY too narrow-mindedly purist to see that fact....

Oh, and by the way, I believe that Peter Davison was actually quite a young man when he played the Role of The Doctor, 30 I believe... Certainly not as old as Tom Baker, Patrick Troughton, Jon Pertwee or William Hartnell were..... In fact, a few years younger than Tenant and Eccleston too....

Just to use as an example of another Sci Fi show that went through some pretty damn radical changes in its modern incanation... Battlestar Galactica.... The 70s version and the 00s version are radically different, changing the genders and ethnicities of certain key characters, eg, Starbuck and Boomer become women, Baltar becomes a snivelling British guy, we have a Hispanic actor playing Adama, a white actor plays Tigh and the Cylons themselves take on the appearance of humans... VERY, different to how the original 70s show was... And it works.. Superbly actually, it's miles better than the original series (mind you, that's down to the creative brilliance of the writers and various FX and film crew..), which was frankly a bit bloody laughable, even when I was a kid...

 

"Star Trek TNG" did some pretty radical changes to the old show as well...

 

So, it's not exactly without some precedent to bring some changes to the Doc.... New creative team, new ideas at the end of the day....

Is this 100% official as the new series is not transmitted till 2010, and I believe the actor has a three year contract with Survivors as Survivors has been picked up for another 2 more seasons.

 

I must admit not my ideal choice of casting, I would have prefered Sean Pertwee to follow up in his father's footsteps or British actor Jeremy Bamber, for people who don't know Jeremy he actually plays Apollo in Battlestar Galactica, at present he is not contracted to any series, as BG has finished filming. Caprica has been giving the green light the spin off series from BG, due to be screened next year.

Oh my god Grimly just made 5 posts in a row LOL. I can't keep up!

 

Really, Rob/Craig could not be more wrong. 'If it aint broke dont fix it' is the absolutely most stupid mantra to apply to a long-running TV serial. If things don't adapt, change, then people get bored. There's no reason whatsoever the Doctor shouldn't be black, and the one after him white, and the one after him female.

 

Do you know, I can so imagine Rob/Craig as Gene Hunt from Ashes to Ashes. Stereotypes and prejudices galore!

Dr Who is one of those characters that should stay white, to me it is like having a black Bond, ever since Dr Who started over 40 years ago Dr Who has been a white man and generations have grown up with a white Dr Who and that is the way it should remain, could you imagine a black Bond ?

 

That is not being racist

 

:rolleyes: (the same applies to Mushymanrob as well in this instance)

 

Using the same logic, for 57 years a white man has won the F1 Championship, therefore it is outrageous that a black man is World Champion in 2008 because in the previous 57 years the World Champion has been white so that is the way it should remain. Likewise for over 200 years a white man was President of the United States Of America therefore it an outrage that a black man is going to be President of the United States of America, because it has always been a white man.

 

Besides this is Sci-Fi where the Doctor's Alien character is not fixed historically or genetically as a white British male, unlike say James Bond or other historical fictional characters. Therefore the writers/producers can do the "wibbly wobbly timey wimey" they want with whom they cast in the lead role, as they could just as easily cast a female in the lead role (like they nearly did go with Joanna Lumley as replacement for Tom Baker instead of Peter Davidson back in 1981!). Indeed that is why Meera Syal is still very much in the bookies running for the next Dr Who.

 

Having watched Sex Traffic, The Peep Show, Green Wing, & numerous other comedies & drama's where he has had various adhoc appearances I think he is a brilliant actor in both drama & comedy and would be an inspired choice who has more than enough ability to carry off the role.

 

Personally, I would love David Thewlis, Dextor Fletcher or the sentimental favourite Sean Pertwee to become the next Doctor (which has still yet to be confirmed by the way), or anyone who is a half decent comedy-dramatic actor who can carry off the role. So long as it is not James Nesbitt.

I don't give a flying what colour the new actor is, if he is the best person for the role then it doesn't matter AT ALL if he is black/white/pink with yellow spots. :rolleyes:

 

Dr Who is a fictional character who could be whatever the scriptwriters make him (or her, or IT!)

 

I am a bit disappointed that Mushy has sided with Craig's blatant racism here (and yes Craig, your viewpoint here is racist).

:rolleyes: (the same applies to Mushymanrob as well in this instance)

 

Using the same logic, for 57 years a white man has won the F1 Championship, therefore it is outrageous that a black man is World Champion in 2008 because in the previous 57 years the World Champion has been white so that is the way it should remain. Likewise for over 200 years a white man was President of the United States Of America therefore it an outrage that a black man is going to be President of the United States of America, because it has always been a white man.

 

Besides this is Sci-Fi where the Doctor's Alien character is not fixed historically or genetically as a white British male, unlike say James Bond or other historical fictional characters. Therefore the writers/producers can do the "wibbly wobbly timey wimey" they want with whom they cast in the lead role, as they could just as easily cast a female in the lead role (like they nearly did go with Joanna Lumley as replacement for Tom Baker instead of Peter Davidson back in 1981!). Indeed that is why Meera Syal is still very much in the bookies running for the next Dr Who.

 

Having watched Sex Traffic, The Peep Show, Green Wing, & numerous other comedies & drama's where he has had various adhoc appearances I think he is a brilliant actor in both drama & comedy and would be an inspired choice who has more than enough ability to carry off the role.

 

Personally, I would love David Thewlis, Dextor Fletcher or the sentimental favourite Sean Pertwee to become the next Doctor (which has still yet to be confirmed by the way), or anyone who is a half decent comedy-dramatic actor who can carry off the role. So long as it is not James Nesbitt.

 

Hear Hear Richard... Totally in agreement with you.... Funny, I was thinking exactly the same thing about Obama in particular....

 

And to take the metaphor further, if you look at Brit Olympic gold medallists on the track over the years, the 90s/00s - Linford, Colin Jackson, Kelley Holmes.. All of them of Afro-Caribbean descent... 60s/70s, Brit Olympians would've been all white folks, things HAVE CHANGED, UK society has CHANGED which is what the likes of Rob and Craig just dont seem willing to accept.... If we were to go with their logic, then Linford, Colin and Kelley would've been denied places on the UK Olympic team because "well, British athletes have always been white...." :rolleyes: Same goes for the likes of Nasser Hussein in English Cricket who would've been denied his captaincy had we used the logic of "well, all English cricket captains have been white"....

 

I look at it like this - Othello is FIXED as a "Moor" (Black or North African Muslim, perhaps even Arabic, but certainly not anglo-saxon) from the 16th Century, James Bond is FIXED as a British white male from the 20th Century. The Doctor is a shape-shifting alien from Galifrey.... :lol: Erm, not exactly 'fixed' is it....?

 

Hear Hear Richard... Totally in agreement with you.... Funny, I was thinking exactly the same thing about Obama in particular....

 

And to take the metaphor further, if you look at Brit Olympic gold medallists on the track over the years, the 90s/00s - Linford, Colin Jackson, Kelley Holmes.. All of them of Afro-Caribbean descent... 60s/70s, Brit Olympians would've been all white folks, things HAVE CHANGED, UK society has CHANGED which is what the likes of Rob and Craig just dont seem willing to accept.... If we were to go with their logic, then Linford, Colin and Kelley would've been denied places on the UK Olympic team because "well, British athletes have always been white...." :rolleyes: Same goes for the likes of Nasser Hussein in English Cricket who would've been denied his captaincy had we used the logic of "well, all English cricket captains have been white"....

 

I look at it like this - Othello is FIXED as a "Moor" (Black or North African Muslim, perhaps even Arabic, but certainly not anglo-saxon) from the 16th Century, James Bond is FIXED as a British white male from the 20th Century. The Doctor is a shape-shifting alien from Galifrey.... :lol: Erm, not exactly 'fixed' is it....?

 

Never been in agreement with you more tbh grimly :heehee: It does actually surprise me at Rob's attitude to this whole thing...

I am a bit disappointed that Mushy has sided with Craig's blatant racism here (and yes Craig, your viewpoint here is racist).

 

I agree.. Because he is blatantly not basing his opinion on whether or not Patterson Joseph will be good or bad in the actual role itself, he's basing his judgement almost entirely on the colour of his skin, it's not anything to do with Joseph as an individual actor....

 

Richard has just reminded me of other parts Joseph has played... And, yeah, he actually IS a damn good actor....

 

I'd still love to see how Morgan Freeman or Sam Jackson would tackle the role though.... :lol: Or perhaps Lance Reddick (Lt Daniels in the superb cop drama "The Wire") or Clarke Peters (who played the rather eccentric, thoughtful, tweedy Det. Freamon in that show)....

Is this 100% official as the new series is not transmitted till 2010, and I believe the actor has a three year contract with Survivors as Survivors has been picked up for another 2 more seasons.

 

Yeah, I mean, could all just be a rumour innit....?

 

And funny you should mention "Survivors", surprised Craig and Rob aint raising objections to the remake having different races and ethnic origins, I mean, after all, the 70s original was all WHITE actors innit....? :lol: I mean, Patterson Joseph, Freema Agyeman, Nikki Amulka-Bird...... Bleedin' Political Correctness gone mad...... :rolleyes:

 

The thing I dont like here is the sheer hostility that both Craig and Rob are showing to the idea of casting a black actor in the role, regardless of their abilities.... It leaves a bit of nasty taste in the mouth tbh... Not surprised by Craig's attitude, but am a bit by Rob's....

 

For me, I'd love to see Alan Rickman in the role personally, but I reckon there probably IS more chance of getting Morgan Freeman or Sam Jackson..... :lol:

'If it aint broke dont fix it' is the absolutely most stupid mantra to apply to a long-running TV serial.

 

Same for a long-running film franchise... Which is why James Bond has kind of "toughened up" considerably over the course of the past two films... Bond really WAS losing major ground to the Bourne films, and the producers responded with a much tougher, more ruthless Bond 're-boot' for the 21st Century..... Daniel Craig is streets ahead of Brosnan IMO....