It's certainly banned from "X-Factor" it seems.... So, tell me, just WHY it is that this show seems utterly incapable of turning out the equivalents of artists I mentioned in a previous post... And just where ARE the equivalents of the likes of The Killers or Oasis on "X-Factor"? Nope, sorry, you're wrong, there IS a clear bias towards the manufactured in "X-Factor" and the mainstream media in general... You're an idiot if you cant see it mate.....

So you're telling me that people like Leona and Alex aren't talented?

 

Those people you mentioned as being talented are only in your opinion. There are other people like me who think that that type of music is just complete rubbish. And obviously it must be quite a lot of people, hence the reason those bands you mentioned and their genres aren't the mainstream. And hence the reason they're indie and not signed. A lot of these bands don't want to conform to what they believe is just mainstream rubbish, and I value that opinion, but there are risks with that i.e not getting the recognition that all the pop bands and singers are getting.

How about you actually listen to the Leonard Cohen original and the absolutely superb Jeff Buckley cover (the absolute BEST version of this song by a mile....) and then come back and tell me you think Alexandra "Leona Clone" is such hot sh!t..... :rolleyes:

I have and I prefer Alexandra's version a bit more. And I'm sorry that, that is just my taste. I'm also sorry that I like something which you don't necessarily agree on. Anyway the versions are totally different. Leonard's is the original and to me it sounds quite dated. Jeff Buckley's version is superb, as it's got the emotion, the original IMO lacked. But Alexandra's is more produced and commercial, and I'm sorry that's the one i like the most, because it's more of my thing!

So you're telling me that people like Leona and Alex aren't talented?

 

Those people you mentioned as being talented are only in your opinion. There are other people like me who think that that type of music is just complete rubbish. And obviously it must be quite a lot of people, hence the reason those bands you mentioned and their genres aren't the mainstream. And hence the reason they're indie and not signed. A lot of these bands don't want to conform to what they believe is just mainstream rubbish, and I value that opinion, but there are risks with that i.e not getting the recognition that all the pop bands and singers are getting.

 

If Leona & Alex were so talented then why did neither act manage to land a major label music contract before X-Factor, despite trying for 2.5 & 3 years respectively?

 

Maybe, because in Leona Lewis' case she has a great voice but the personality of watching paint dry & in Alexandra's case because in the words of top Music Industry expert for over 20 years & former head of Polygram Richard Park vocally she is "generic identikit RNB" & Richard Park signed Craig David; Beverley Knight & the Sugababes (after they were dropped from London records) so he knows a thing or two about British Urban music.

If Leona & Alex were so talented then why did neither act manage to land a major label music contract before X-Factor, despite trying for 2.5 & 3 years respectively?

 

Maybe, because in Leona Lewis' case she has a great voice but the personality of watching paint dry & in Alexandra's case because in the words of top Music Industry expert for over 20 years & former head of Polygram Richard Park vocally she is "generic identikit RNB" & Richard Park signed Craig David; Beverley Knight & the Sugababes (after they were dropped from London records) so he knows a thing or two about British Urban music.

Vocally, there may be a lot of people similar to her, but what makes her special? The fact that she can sing ANYTHING and still make it sound good, the fact that she has a great personality, the fact that she can dance her ass off. Most of the people who have similar voices to her can't do all of that. Shes like a Rihanna with a great voice. If she can make a great album which showcases all of those abilities then she can do so well.

 

and I said it before and i'll say it again: Surely you would have realised by now that talent doesn't necessarily = a record deal and world domination. Its all about getting the right breaks in music, and like it or not, the X Factor is essentialy a massive break for a talented singer.

You have the likes of Will Young who came out of this show (and he's a hundred times more talented than your Metalica trash, you're an idiot if you can't face it).

And lots of the artists you love are playing the "we're banned from TV" card, and they would never accept to perform on the X Factor if they were invited (and then they would complain there ain't place for bands like them on such shows, the idiots...).

 

But it's funny you quote Evanescence and Mettalica as your "talented" references :lol: Especially considering the last act is just TRASH music without an inch of talent.

 

I feel mean doing this, but as you posted one of the most inaccurate & stupid posts on the site in its history:

 

1. Will Young came out of Pop Idol which was Simon Fuller's creation; not X-Factor which is Simon Cowell's.

 

2. As documented by Pete Waterman's autobiography & Heat chief-editor Mark Frith's autobiography: Simon Cowell wanted solo Westlife wannabe Gareth Gates to win & told Pete & Mark that he could not stand Will Young. Something Will Young understandably picked up on.

 

3. After Will Young won the competition Will Young had nothing to do with Simon Cowell; and had Simon Fuller manage his career which is why his career has flourished because he was granted an artistic freedom that Simon Cowell will never allow an act from X-Factor to have.

 

4. Metallica are regarded as the greatest Heavy Rock act of the past 20+ years; picking up on the mantle left by Led Zeppelin & Black Sabbath from the 1970s. A lot of critics may say they treaded water after an incredibly impressive start to their career with a series of genre defining albums up until & including 1991's eponymous Metallica (Black) album. However their latest 2008 album Death Magnetic has been warmly received as a return to former glories (on a par with U2's last two albums trying successfully to recapture their former glory days but in an updated manner 20 years on). Hence why Top US music publications Time magazine ranked it #3 Album of 2008 & Revolver Magazine ranked it #1 Album of 2008.

 

5. I'd like to see any manufacted pop act release an album with no singles taken from it featuring 10 tracks all over 5 minutes long of original musical compositions; release the album without the support of TV & the media & go to #1 in 25 countries selling over 4.5 million copies to date. It's called real talent which is why they are regarded as one of the greatest live act around today.

 

 

 

I feel mean doing this, but as you posted one of the most inaccurate & stupid posts on the site in its history:

 

1. Will Young came out of Pop Idol which was Simon Fuller's creation; not X-Factor which is Simon Cowell's.

 

2. As documented by Pete Waterman's autobiography & Heat chief-editor Mark Frith's autobiography: Simon Cowell wanted solo Westlife wannabe Gareth Gates to win & told Pete & Mark that he could not stand Will Young. Something Will Young understandably picked up on.

 

3. After Will Young won the competition Will Young had nothing to do with Simon Cowell; and had Simon Fuller manage his career which is why his career has flourished because he was granted an artistic freedom that Simon Cowell will never allow an act from X-Factor to have.

 

4. Metallica are regarded as the greatest Heavy Rock act of the past 20+ years; picking up on the mantle left by Led Zeppelin & Black Sabbath from the 1970s. A lot of critics may say they treaded water after an incredibly impressive start to their career with a series of genre defining albums up until & including 1991's eponymous Metallica (Black) album. However their latest 2008 album Death Magnetic has been warmly received as a return to former glories (on a par with U2's last two albums trying successfully to recapture their former glory days but in an updated manner 20 years on). Hence why Top US music publications Time magazine ranked it #3 Album of 2008 & Revolver Magazine ranked it #1 Album of 2008.

 

5. I'd like to see any manufacted pop act release an album with no singles taken from it featuring 10 tracks all over 5 minutes long of original musical compositions; release the album without the support of TV & the media & go to #1 in 25 countries selling over 4.5 million copies to date. It's called real talent which is why they are regarded as one of the greatest live act around today.

 

I dunno but there's something about Alex that makes me feel like she's not just gonna sit back and let the people around her make decisions on her behalf, I think she'll make sure that she has a lot of cretive freedom in this album but we'll see. Maybe that will happen after the second album.

 

3. After Will Young won the competition Will Young had nothing to do with Simon Cowell; and had Simon Fuller manage his career which is why his career has flourished because he was granted an artistic freedom that Simon Cowell will never allow an act from X-Factor to have.

i honestly feel Simon will let Leona have quite a bit of say in her new album. Now that she's a global superstar :lol: I think she's even writing tracks for the new album too. But I can see your points, but it doesn't change the fact that i like X Factor or the songs the winners produce. I can't help it if that's my taste :lol:

Vocally, there may be a lot of people similar to her, but what makes her special? The fact that she can sing ANYTHING and still make it sound good, the fact that she has a great personality, the fact that she can dance her ass off. Most of the people who have similar voices to her can't do all of that. Shes like a Rihanna with a great voice. If she can make a great album which showcases all of those abilities then she can do so well.

 

and I said it before and i'll say it again: Surely you would have realised by now that talent doesn't necessarily = a record deal and world domination. Its all about getting the right breaks in music, and like it or not, the X Factor is essentialy a massive break for a talented singer.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Like being part of the London Community Gospel Choir standing 30 feet away from Leon Jackson performing When You Believe in the 2007 X-Factor finale. It was so pathetic as Charlie Brooker accurately picked up on in his wonderful acerbic Screenwipe BBC4 programme (& again Geraldine McQueen made a very clear reference to last night regarding where she was 12 months ago in a Thai hospital after having a sex change operation compared to another talent show winner this year.... ) how Syco removed 3 months ago all copies from Youtube etc of that performance to edit out Alexandra of the TV shots; and subsequently post an re-edit with no close shots of her.

 

Or having a mother (former Soul II Soul singer Melissa Bell) who appeared in the 1980s musicals Little Shop Of Horrors & Mutiny! alongside Sinitta (a close friend of Simon Cowell) whom they have remained close friends ever since. So that Sinitta knew of Alexandra from growing up as a child and knew of her ability as an aspiring singer.

 

Now that is what I call getting a bloody big break.

 

As Charlie Brooker put it: over 185,000 people applied to the X-Factor, yet 9 of the 12 Finalists were already known on the talent circuit from applying for other talent show vehicles; etc (only Diana Vickers - token see X-Factor is not all about dull convential singers hitting money notes ...... hippy Lilith Fair 10th rate Kate Bush wannabe; Daniel Evans - sob story: death of his wife after she gave birth to his daughter & Rachel Hylton - sob story: problems with drugs led to a spell in prison and eventually three of her children were taken into care were the non ringers but clearly one was a token act eventually hung out to dry by Simon Cowell who thinks David Bowie & Kate Bush are the most over rated acts in British music history & thinks Bjork is the worst singer ever & Mariah Carey is the best ever female singer).

 

So much for it being a proper so called talent competition. About as genuine as Robson & Jerome's vocals on their ghastly 1990s karaoke tracks. :lol:

 

Or put it another way: On a The Beatles site I regularly go to they have an annual poll: If Mark Chapman (the nutter who murdered John Lennon) was allowed out of jail for a day to kill someone who would it be: This year Heather Mills dropped 2 places to #3; George W Bush was a non mover at #2; but up 4 places to #1 was .... Simon Cowell.

 

As Paul McCartney described Simon Cowell and the impact of his shows on music as "Musical Cancer" (Remember the love of his life Linda died of this terrible disease); and Paul spent £20-30 million of his own money to set up & fund the Liverpool Institute for Performing Acts which has already seen the alumni include a host of Hollyoaks actors; top US video & film director & one hit wonder Liam Lynch; The Wombats; members of The Zutons; Cherry Ghost; Sandi Thom; top dance music producer Jan Burton; TV journalist & presenter Dawn Porter; etc....

 

Hence why he has been fully supportive of Peter Kay's superb TV music reality satirical character Geraldine McQueen (whilst refusing Simon Cowell permission to perform his post Beatles songs on X-Factor) because the World most successful songwriter ever in the history of popular music understands what is real talent (Paul's Favourite Song of 2008 as revealed on BBC2's Late Show is Camille's Money Note :wub:) & what is fast food bad karaoke "car crash TV" exploiting wannabes wanting to become famous whilst making millions & millions of pounds in profits from affectively one 16 week 90 minutes plus free advertising on ITV.

 

That is why I agree with many people that anyone who spends a penny towards inflating Simon Cowell's bank balance is a brain dead Zombie (as satirised in the superb 2008 Channel 4 show written by Charlie Brooker "Dead Set").

i honestly feel Simon will let Leona have quite a bit of say in her new album. Now that she's a global superstar :lol: I think she's even writing tracks for the new album too. But I can see your points, but it doesn't change the fact that i like X Factor or the songs the winners produce. I can't help it if that's my taste :lol:

 

... But that is only because her career is managed by US music industry legend Clive Davis not Simon Cowell.

"5. I'd like to see any manufacted pop act release an album with no singles taken from it featuring 10 tracks all over 5 minutes long of original musical compositions; release the album without the support of TV & the media & go to #1 in 25 countries selling over 4.5 million copies to date. It's called real talent which is why they are regarded as one of the greatest live act around today."

 

I hate the argument against "manufactured pop acts". It's so dated and needs to be brushed under the carpet. Singing is a talent. If they write their material, that's even better. If not, who cares? People - believe it or not - don't JUST hear lyrics, they hear the artist's voice as well. And... musicial compositions? Let's see if Hetfield can reach the range of Whitney Houston or Leona Lewis. Before you harp on, I KNOW their music is not about vocal octaves and such, but it's a contradictory argument.

 

I hate people who jump on the bandwagon. Is it really that astonishing people prefer Alexandra's version??? It's a completely different interpretation with Cowell's big choir backed crescendo which is appealing to a lot of people. I really like the version, but that doesn't mean I dislike previous versions of the song. It's always going to happen though. People will try and act like "music snobs" and tell you it's nothing like the originals.

I dunno but there's something about Alex that makes me feel like she's not just gonna sit back and let the people around her make decisions on her behalf, I think she'll make sure that she has a lot of cretive freedom in this album but we'll see. Maybe that will happen after the second album.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Perhaps on her 5th album (if she doesn't get dropped).

 

Her management team will decide on her behalf what tracks will go on the album and maybe they will stick in a few covers as album fillers. Classic.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Perhaps on her 5th album (if she doesn't get dropped).

 

Her management team will decide on her behalf what tracks will go on the album and maybe they will stick in a few covers as album fillers. Classic.

 

Depends on how successful she is and WHO she's signed with. Leona's a prime example. I'm sure if it were up to Simon Cowell, she'd be churning out choir backed songs like Footprints. I heard Syco wanted to release Better In Time before Bleeding Love, which if correct, would've been insane. BUT, like someone said earlier Leona has the backing of J Records who have major input and seem to let their artists have wayyy more of a creative say (Jazmine Sullivan, Alicia Keys etc.).

"5. I'd like to see any manufacted pop act release an album with no singles taken from it featuring 10 tracks all over 5 minutes long of original musical compositions; release the album without the support of TV & the media & go to #1 in 25 countries selling over 4.5 million copies to date. It's called real talent which is why they are regarded as one of the greatest live act around today."

 

I hate the argument against "manufactured pop acts". It's so dated and needs to be brushed under the carpet. Singing is a talent. If they write their material, that's even better. If not, who cares? People - believe it or not - don't JUST hear lyrics, they hear the artist's voice as well. And... musicial compositions? Let's see if Hetfield can reach the range of Whitney Houston or Leona Lewis. Before you harp on, I KNOW their music is not about vocal octaves and such, but it's a contradictory argument.

 

I hate people who jump on the bandwagon. Is it really that astonishing people prefer Alexandra's version??? It's a completely different interpretation with Cowell's big choir backed crescendo which is appealing to a lot of people. I really like the version, but that doesn't mean I dislike previous versions of the song. It's always going to happen though. People will try and act like "music snobs" and tell you it's nothing like the originals.

 

Excuse me. Whitney Houston up to & including The Bodyguard soundtrack & the My Love Is Your Love album made really good commercial contemporary music, because she had a great voice and recorded a great song book of very strong material.

 

Leona Lewis has a great voice, but her debut album was a missed opportunity with Bleeding Love being head and shoulders the best track on it. The very fact that Simon Cowell passed on the fantastic track Halo (now on Beyonce's current album) for that project; just as when UK boss of BMG he passed on the song ...Baby One More Time for 5ive; dropped Kylie Minogue (before she signed to Parlophone part of EMI and re-emerged as a huge pop star); passed on the first option of signing Robbie Williams as a solo artist; rejected the Spice Girls; etc; explaining why Billboard & Rolling Stone have reported that Clive Davis will get more hands on Leona Lewis' 2nd album to ensure she does not miss out on any golden opportunities because my opinion of Simon Cowell is not very high, to put it mildly.

 

1. Will Young came out of Pop Idol which was Simon Fuller's creation; not X-Factor which is Simon Cowell's.

 

2. As documented by Pete Waterman's autobiography & Heat chief-editor Mark Frith's autobiography: Simon Cowell wanted solo Westlife wannabe Gareth Gates to win & told Pete & Mark that he could not stand Will Young. Something Will Young understandably picked up on.

 

3. After Will Young won the competition Will Young had nothing to do with Simon Cowell; and had Simon Fuller manage his career which is why his career has flourished because he was granted an artistic freedom that Simon Cowell will never allow an act from X-Factor to have.

 

You read my post the wrong way, I was not defending Simon Cowell in particular (I don't care about him in particular, he doesn't need me to take his defense), I was talking about reality tv show in general, Pop Idol/X Factor/Popstars/etc.

 

I feel mean doing this, but as you posted one of the most inaccurate & stupid posts on the site in its history:

 

I will leave the debate now, because as long as it is interesting to read different views and have a little 'fights' of ideas and points of view, I don't like when it tends to become more like people getting very agressive and make it too personnal, and the "the most inaccurate & stupid posts on the site in its history" comment was a little bit too much for me to take, so I give up and wish you a merry Christmas. I'll keep enjoying both Alexandra and Jeff's versions, and I'll jeep enjoying watching the X Factor, even if it makes me one of the most stupid person in the forum history. See you in other threads.

Excuse me. Whitney Houston up to & including The Bodyguard soundtrack & the My Love Is Your Love album made really good commercial contemporary music, because she had a great voice and recorded a great song book of very strong material.

 

Leona Lewis has a great voice, but her debut album was a missed opportunity with Bleeding Love being head and shoulders the best track on it. The very fact that Simon Cowell passed on the fantastic track Halo (now on Beyonce's current album) for that project; just as when UK boss of BMG he passed on the song ...Baby One More Time for 5ive; dropped Kylie Minogue (before she signed to Parlophone part of EMI and re-emerged as a huge pop star); passed on the first option of signing Robbie Williams as a solo artist; rejected the Spice Girls; etc; explaining why Billboard & Rolling Stone have reported that Clive Davis will get more hands on Leona Lewis' 2nd album to ensure she does not miss out on any golden opportunities because my opinion of Simon Cowell is not very high, to put it mildly.

 

Excuse me. In case you didn't realise, I was responding to your critisism of "manufactured" pop acts. The promotion critisism is what really got me. That statement was bias towards mainstream metal. That's all I was getting at.

 

I actually agree with your assessment of Simon Cowell. Though, I don't care enough to read 7 pages of debate on why Alex's version is "inferior" to all others, especially when most seemingly have a STRONG vendetta against Simon Cowell. I'm not fuelled on hate so I can see past Simon's clichéd choice of song and look at the artist. This is why it's unfortunate Leona came from X-Factor. She's a truly talented artist but will carry the baggage of being associated with Cowell for a long time. A *lot* of people won't give her or talented acts like Alexandra a chance.

Edited December 20, 200816 yr by AAC

You read my post the wrong way, I was not defending Simon Cowell in particular (I don't care about him in particular, he doesn't need me to take his defense), I was talking about reality tv show in general, Pop Idol/X Factor/Popstars/etc.

I will leave the debate now, because as long as it is interesting to read different views and have a little 'fights' of ideas and points of view, I don't like when it tends to become more like people getting very agressive and make it too personnal, and the "the most inaccurate & stupid posts on the site in its history" comment was a little bit too much for me to take, so I give up and wish you a merry Christmas. I'll keep enjoying both Alexandra and Jeff's versions, and I'll jeep enjoying watching the X Factor, even if it makes me one of the most stupid person in the forum history. See you in other threads.

 

Look lets make one thing crystal clear. I am not a snob against manufactured Pop music.

 

The likes of Britney Spears; Girls Aloud; The Sugababes; etc have made some of the greatest records of any genre this decade; in the same way that classic pop factories of Motown; Phil Spector; Chinn & Chapman; etc did the same thing in previous decades.

 

What angers me is that one man Simon Cowell has a monster free advert on ITV that lasts up to 5 months at 90 minutes per Saturday night; and at the end of it comes up with usually a very vocally talented singer but then releases some of the lamest lowest commom denominator pap musak one could imagine; when with the freedom he has he could easily find something better & more musically inventive. That is why he & the acts who come out of this show are savaged by a large number of music critics & music fans because of the sheer volume of lazy unoriginal material the winning performer has to sing.

 

I have to say Alexandra's Hallelujah is the first Simon Cowell X-Factor winning single where I have not felt the urge to grab the remote and press the mute button; because unlike all previous X-Factor winning singles it is not a tear your ears off in horror lazy single release.

 

Whilst the winning song from Popstars: The Rivals: Girls Aloud - Sound Of The Underground is a fantastic pop record in anyone's language. So why can't Simon Cowell find someone to write a fantastic record as good as another Maneater; Biology; Push The Button; So What; Toxic; Crazy In Love; etc seeing as it is virtually guaranteed to sell 500,000 copies in a week?

Whilst the winning song from Popstars: The Rivals: Girls Aloud - Sound Of The Underground is a fantastic pop record in anyone's language. So why can't Simon Cowell find someone to write a fantastic record as good as another Maneater; Biology; Push The Button; So What; Toxic; Crazy In Love; etc seeing as it is virtually guaranteed to sell 500,000 copies in a week?

 

I think he's actually scared to step out of the box he created. I think Westlife's success is what cemented Simon's love on bog standard pop tracks with the key change, choir et al. He's made heaps of cash of this because at the end of the day, these songs that Cowell creates always sell. The UK seems to lap most of it up.

But didn't Simon do The Spice Girls, Robbie & Kylie Minogue a favour by not signing them? :unsure:

 

(I'm NOT defending :lol: Just simply asking)

 

But I am actually pissed off he turned 'Halo' down for Leona! :angry: It's by far Beyonce's best off her album and TBH, Simon just blew his chance of having 2009's 'Bleeding Love' (The MEGA hit)

"But I am actually pissed off he turned 'Halo' down for Leona! mad.gif It's by far Beyonce's best off her album and TBH, Simon just blew his chance of having 2009's 'Bleeding Love' (The MEGA hit)"

 

Agreed. Beyonce definitely leaves her mark, but Leona would've hit some mad high notes on Halo. Leona's still working with Tedder on her sophomore album so hopefully he has another hit up his sleeve. Simon was an idiot to pass that song up, though.

I hate the argument against "manufactured pop acts". It's so dated and needs to be brushed under the carpet. Singing is a talent. If they write their material, that's even better. If not, who cares? People - believe it or not - don't JUST hear lyrics, they hear the artist's voice as well. And... musicial compositions? Let's see if Hetfield can reach the range of Whitney Houston or Leona Lewis. Before you harp on, I KNOW their music is not about vocal octaves and such, but it's a contradictory argument. [/qoute]

 

 

but you are looking at it from an x factor karaoke perspective... music at its lowest form... music should be about an artist conveying a story/message through the medium of sound to the listener, and at its best its sung from the heart, composed from a personal experience so when they sing about love/hurt/happiness/whatever its a feeling from their heart. karaoke doesnt do this effectively so rage against manufactured/soulless pop is more then justified.