I think Charlotte's TV show was great but as a singer I don't think she made the crossover from opera singer to pop/rock singer very well. In fact I think it was awful - Crazy Chick was one of the worst songs I've ever heard. Thankfully Lily Allen's singing is far better than her tv presenting because her show was just rubbish.

 

I think X-Factor should go back to just three categories but once its into the final TV stages - have the three 'mentor' judges plus an alternating 'guest' fourth judge each week. Having said that ... knowing Cowell he'll probably introduce an 'over 65's category. Hey ... Mush and Grim can take part then!

 

Norma

I was a fan of both Tissues & Issues and Lily Allen And Friends. :blush:

 

Cheryl's looking great lately, I don't see how she is anorexic in the slightest? She's in pretty great shape if you ask me and quite on the ball lately! =) This is really nice of her, she deserves so much more respect. I honestly take my hat off to her, after what's she's going through with Ashley and how she climbed Kili and still aces her GA performances, she really is an icon for me and should be for many more! Lily Allen would be a complete joke, Cheryl has major talent imo where Lily? Pretty much has none. Afterall Cheryl was the only judge to get a pay increase which clearly reflects the show's faith in her judging abilities, also her in general. I highly doubt they'd make her a judge just because she's a pretty face, she's SO talented and clearly a major asset to the show.

Are you serious?

 

Lily wrote both her albums. Every last track for BOTH albums. Her 'Co-writers' provided melodies in most cases, she alone wrote the lyrics.

 

If Lily is anything she is one of the best lyricists of her generation. She may have a marmite voice and many may hate her songs, but you can not deny that she is incredibly witty and clever in her writing.

Are you serious?

 

Lily wrote both her albums. Every last track for BOTH albums. Her 'Co-writers' provided melodies in most cases, she alone wrote the lyrics.

 

If Lily is anything she is one of the best lyricists of her generation. She may have a marmite voice and many may hate her songs, but you can not deny that she is incredibly witty and clever in her writing.

Don't get me wrong, I WAS a fan of Lily from her first album. Which imo is much better than INMIY where her originality and style just got buttered down and commercialised. Bring back the Alfie and Smile days and I'm a fan of her again. She is a brilliant writer, but on the vocals and performing side of things, not so. Which is mainly what a judge like Cheryl has, making her more worthy as she does have it where Lily isn't that much of an all-rounder and in addition her infamous personality etc etc.

Don't get me wrong, I WAS a fan of Lily from her first album. Which imo is much better than INMIY where her originality and style just got buttered down and commercialised. Bring back the Alfie and Smile days and I'm a fan of her again. She is a brilliant writer, but on the vocals and performing side of things, not so. Which is mainly what a judge like Cheryl has, making her more worthy as she does have it where Lily isn't that much of an all-rounder and in addition her infamous personality etc etc.

what i was getting at was you saying that she has no major talent. Writing is rather a major talent imo.

 

INMIY may sound more commercialised thanks to better production but her lyrics remain as good as her debut. f*** You, and 2nd single Not Fair are very good examples of this. you can always google for the lyrics instead of listening to the tracks

 

As for Cheryl, i could say so much, but i really cba with the whole ga v sb thing, it's quite tiring.

 

She deserves her pay rise however. She was rather excellent at guiding her acts, she was by far the best mentor. Picking the best songs week in week out. She deserved to have 2 in the final, Alex & Laura.

I think Charlotte Church is appalling and yet another person out there who mistakes mouthy arrogance for talent. Her selling point was her above average voice as a precocious child and now she has nothing but an inflated opinion of her self.

 

With that in mind she'd be absolutely perfect for X Factor.

 

As for this story, it's complete fabrication and was probably circulated by the X Factor people.

However much kudos to The Sun for using a picture in which Dannii is a million times more stungorge than Chez. :wub:[/size]

 

Debatable...

 

However, most of you think "Oh sweet Cheryl" "Shes so nice". Although someone who might be thinking depper into it (me) might suggest that this is a clever marketing ploy for Mrs Cole;.

 

By saying she wants to keep Dannii makes her seem like the innocent one: Step 1 - Sympathy from Fans - Check!

By keeping a low-profile character (dont hit me) like Dannii next to her, she's going to still be seen as the better judge with more relevance - Step 2 - Look like the best judge - Check!

 

To me it seems like shes said all this (or her mgmt have told her too) to try and make her seem like a kind-hearted woman, where in contrast its only to be seen as the better female rather than be overshadowed by possible new judges such as, Lily Allen and Kelly Rowland... hmmm :lol:

Cheryl's looking great lately, I don't see how she is anorexic in the slightest? She's in pretty great shape if you ask me and quite on the ball lately! =) This is really nice of her, she deserves so much more respect. I honestly take my hat off to her, after what's she's going through with Ashley and how she climbed Kili and still aces her GA performances, she really is an icon for me and should be for many more! Lily Allen would be a complete joke, Cheryl has major talent imo where Lily? Pretty much has none. Afterall Cheryl was the only judge to get a pay increase which clearly reflects the show's faith in her judging abilities, also her in general. I highly doubt they'd make her a judge just because she's a pretty face, she's SO talented and clearly a major asset to the show.

 

Frankly, considering that you're a fan of acts such as Within Temptation, Evanescence and Lady Gaga, I'm quite astonished by the fact that you consider Cheryl Cole to be such an icon or a "big talent"... Sorry, but I see her as neither and certainly no kind of role model for young girls.... The aforementioned artists however, absolutely..... Sharon Den Adel, Amy Lee and Lady GaGa have more talent in the dirt under their fingernails than the whole of GA, Sugababes and The Saturdays combined...... :rolleyes:

 

God, even Lily Allen is considerably more talented, and I am NO kind of Lily fan..... The fact that I may like the occasional GA song has very little to do with La Cole or any of the others, and more to do with the talents of their writing and production teams..... I'm amazed that someone as bright and intelligent as yourself has been so taken in by the utter hype that is Ms Cole.....

Frankly, considering that you're a fan of acts such as Within Temptation, Evanescence and Lady Gaga, I'm quite astonished by the fact that you consider Cheryl Cole to be such an icon or a "big talent"... Sorry, but I see her as neither and certainly no kind of role model for young girls.... The aforementioned artists however, absolutely..... Sharon Den Adel, Amy Lee and Lady GaGa have more talent in the dirt under their fingernails than the whole of GA, Sugababes and The Saturdays combined...... :rolleyes:

 

God, even Lily Allen is considerably more talented, and I am NO kind of Lily fan..... The fact that I may like the occasional GA song has very little to do with La Cole or any of the others, and more to do with the talents of their writing and production teams..... I'm amazed that someone as bright and intelligent as yourself has been so taken in by the utter hype that is Ms Cole.....

 

I agree. Whilst as a judge on X-Factor her main role seems to make Dannii Minogue look old .... but intelligent pinpointing valid critiques lacking all series from the vapid cliched soundbites from Ms Cole.

 

Whilst anyone who watched last night's Saturday Night Takeaway and saw Lily's witty and acerbic comments as a judge during the Ant v Dec Performing Songs from Musicals contest knows she would be far more suited to being a judge on X-Factor than the worst singer in Girls Aloud. ..... And I'm no fan of Lily's either.

Much love for Cheryl needed :wub: :D

 

And btw, we're talking about X-Factor, a 100% commercial show, so a good judge = a judge who's attracting media attention and viewers to the show. And as far as I know, so so far she has done an excellent job with that.

And she may be the only judge (with Simon) that the contestants didn't complain about, she supported her 3 acts the right way and, I think, helped them to go as far as possible. What would you like her to do more as a judge of X Factor? I don't understand...

 

Edited March 22, 200916 yr by Xmas_Bert

Much love for Cheryl needed :wub: :D

 

And btw, we're talking about X-Factor, a 100% commercial show, so a good judge = a judge who's attracting media attention and viewers to the show. And as far as I know, so so far she has done an excellent job with that.

 

Oh, and here was me thinking that X-Factor should actually be more about the contestants than the sodding judges.... :rolleyes: Silly me... I mean, obviously, X-Factor should just be about giving Cheryl fukkin' Cole and GA a free hour's worth of advertising every week.......

 

Frankly, considering that you're a fan of acts such as Within Temptation, Evanescence and Lady Gaga, I'm quite astonished by the fact that you consider Cheryl Cole to be such an icon or a "big talent"... Sorry, but I see her as neither and certainly no kind of role model for young girls.... The aforementioned artists however, absolutely..... Sharon Den Adel, Amy Lee and Lady GaGa have more talent in the dirt under their fingernails than the whole of GA, Sugababes and The Saturdays combined...... :rolleyes:

 

God, even Lily Allen is considerably more talented, and I am NO kind of Lily fan..... The fact that I may like the occasional GA song has very little to do with La Cole or any of the others, and more to do with the talents of their writing and production teams..... I'm amazed that someone as bright and intelligent as yourself has been so taken in by the utter hype that is Ms Cole.....

HEY!

 

Do not lump the Suga's in with GA and the Sats. There is a distinct difference between them.

 

The Sugababes were NEVER a manufactured band, and they have always had a big part in the writing of their albums hell, they spent 2 years writing and recording the debut. They were never supposed to have a part in the writing, but they insisted and the results were spectacular. Now when they work with someone to co-write a song they write their own verses, and they will alter songs that they have been 'bought' for them because they never sing a line that can't relate too or feel. If it ain't Suga it ain't recorded. Lady GaGa and Lily have writen with co-writers and yes, they wrote their entire album. Something i hope Island will let the girls do one day. They can sing live, and have always prided themselves on the fact they can. Hell when they first appeared it was a damn rarity that a pop group could perform live. They want to bring out a live album in the future along with a live dvd. The only thing stopping them is Island Records.

 

put them in the same box when it comes to music genre etc. Fine whatever, but i will never stand by and watch someone lump the Sugababes in the same box as GA when it come to talent. Keisha Buchanan's pinky nail dirt has more talent than GA could dream of.

Oh, and here was me thinking that X-Factor should actually be more about the contestants than the sodding judges.... :rolleyes: Silly me... I mean, obviously, X-Factor should just be about giving Cheryl fukkin' Cole and GA a free hour's worth of advertising every week.......

 

You didn't get what I was meaning. I didn't say it had to be all about Cheryl at all... I said she's bringing attention to the show, ^so that's a plus for the contestants as well, and as far as I know the girls were delighted to have Cheryl as a judge all the way through, EVEN when they got eliminated, they still said Cheryl was a great mentor. So surely Laura, Diana and Alexandra are in a better position to say if Cheryl was a good mentor or not.

And I'm tired on all the hate on Cheryl, especially when it comes from people dissing the X Factor on every single opportunity anyway (what's the point?). Louis is a far worse judge, he has proved it along the years franlky, and he doesn't get half the hate. Same with Dannii, she's an alright judge, but don't forget Leon was HER winner, she put him though to the live shows, and that was quite a fail if you ask me...

 

And for the above Sugababes/GA quite biased comparaison above, is it really needed and on topic ? ;)

Yes.

And for the above Sugababes/GA quite biased comparaison above, is it really needed and on topic ? ;)

It's not on the original topic, no, but Phil has a valid point and the Sugababes were mentioned by Scott so he had the right to respond.

 

Whether his comment about the Sugababes not being manufactured is right is another question. The original line-up wasn't exactly thrown together, but with two line-up changes, they're certainly as manufactured as any of the mentioned groups though Keisha is obviously capable of co-writing.

It's not on the original topic, no, but Phil has a valid point and the Sugababes were mentioned by Scott so he had the right to respond.

 

Whether his comment about the Sugababes not being manufactured is right is another question. The original line-up wasn't exactly thrown together, but with two line-up changes, they're certainly as manufactured as any of the mentioned groups though Keisha is obviously capable of co-writing.

 

I know the Sugababes got briefly mentionned by someone esle before, but it wasn't the core of the message, and therefore I don't think such a big argumentation centered on SB was needed. I mean, that's exactly what people on here reproch to "GA loons", to pick up tiny mentions and to over-react way too much about it. So I think the same critical message could be adressed to this SB fan, that's all. :)

 

About the "manufactured" debate... Sugababes IS a major pop act driven by a major label, they don't produce music & melodies, have sold items such as dolls under their name, and above all have survived to two line up changes (out of 3 original members, that's quite a lot), so denying the fact they've become manufactured act is a bit of a nonsense today. But once again, people shouldn't see the "manufactured" sticker as an insult. Personnaly, I don't, that doesn't make them bad.

Edited March 23, 200916 yr by Xmas_Bert

Frankly, considering that you're a fan of acts such as Within Temptation, Evanescence and Lady Gaga, I'm quite astonished by the fact that you consider Cheryl Cole to be such an icon or a "big talent"... Sorry, but I see her as neither and certainly no kind of role model for young girls.... The aforementioned artists however, absolutely..... Sharon Den Adel, Amy Lee and Lady GaGa have more talent in the dirt under their fingernails than the whole of GA, Sugababes and The Saturdays combined...... :rolleyes:

 

God, even Lily Allen is considerably more talented, and I am NO kind of Lily fan..... The fact that I may like the occasional GA song has very little to do with La Cole or any of the others, and more to do with the talents of their writing and production teams..... I'm amazed that someone as bright and intelligent as yourself has been so taken in by the utter hype that is Ms Cole.....

Well, think what you want, Scott but it's obvious a person like yourself who is pretty much against the majority of pop acts will slag GA and Cheryl, and in pop literally everything comes with the 'manufactured' tag, I fail to see GaGa not being 'manufactured' she literaly worked with the best producers and got so much hype surrounding her that she's now got 2 consecutive no.1's on her first two singles, she can BARELY sing well except for one or two off the Cherrytree sessions. She so hyped about that she barely has to work or do any promo, everything literally falls into her lap and songwriting and image alone makes her talented?, her songs are epic as I've always said and eventually convinced you to go against what you usually stand for, and listen to her. GaGa is talented in few ways and manufactured in more. How you havent picked this up, I dont know.

YES, GA are obviously a manufactured act, and I completely agree with every point Bertie's intelligently made. But there is a lot of true personality, true role models, hard work and plenty talent behind GA than just labelling them as manufactured. Cheryl and the girls work their freakin asses off, day in and day out, whether it'd be perfecting a song for a day with only 2 hours sleep, to climbing Kilimanjaro for charity, or spending a week on filming an underwater video where they have to be facedown in the deep end of an aquarium miming words, how many musicians would be able to live a lifestyle like that, not many. Amy Lee and Sharon are hardly as hard working and occupied and dedicated to the industry as GA, yes they've got vocals, and some degree of songwriting and piano talent but that's about it. I'd say you know a bit too little about GA, you don't even know cheryl personally so how can you judge her as fake. Every girl in GA IS a role model to literally every girl out there, they do $h!t loads to get what they earn and hardly ever put a foot wrong even with the paparazzi's all over them, compare that to Miley Cyrus, Amy Winehouse or Lily Allen. They are ABSOLUTELY role models to other girls, and especially to me, so I am living evidence to that, where you had no substantiation to that point..

On the talent side, do you think an average girl or even yourself would be able to work like GA do, perfect like GA do, be able to perform like GA do, have an image like GA do and be in the studio working hand in hand vocally like GA do. I sure as hell don't think so. So yes, GA are manufactured. But you can't compare Amy and Sharon with GaGa or GA, they're all from completely different corners and aspects of the music industry. And GA are absolutely role models, and have $h!t loads of work ethic and talent than probably 3.9/4 of the world and half the music industry.

Edited March 23, 200916 yr by Kath Aloud

I know the Sugababes got briefly mentionned by someone esle before, but it wasn't the core of the message, and therefore I don't think such a big argumentation centered on SB was needed. I mean, that's exactly what people on here reproch to "GA loons", to pick up tiny mentions and to over-react way too much about it. So I think the same critical message could be adressed to this SB fan, that's all. :)

 

About the "manufactured" debate... Sugababes IS a major pop act driven by a major label, they don't produce music & melodies, have sold items such as dolls under their name, and above all have survived to two line up changes (out of 3 original members, that's quite a lot), so denying the fact they've become manufactured act is a bit of a nonsense today. But once again, people shouldn't see the "manufactured" sticker as an insult. Personnaly, I don't, that doesn't make them bad.

True. I don't want this to trawl off into another girl group war based on a minor comment made by Scott but I didn't see anything wrong with the comment. If it goes too far into the usual arguments I'll lock this as there can't be that much left to say about this, likely fabricated, story.

HEY!

 

Do not lump the Suga's in with GA and the Sats. There is a distinct difference between them.

 

The Sugababes were NEVER a manufactured band, and they have always had a big part in the writing of their albums hell, they spent 2 years writing and recording the debut. They were never supposed to have a part in the writing, but they insisted and the results were spectacular. Now when they work with someone to co-write a song they write their own verses, and they will alter songs that they have been 'bought' for them because they never sing a line that can't relate too or feel. If it ain't Suga it ain't recorded. Lady GaGa and Lily have writen with co-writers and yes, they wrote their entire album. Something i hope Island will let the girls do one day. They can sing live, and have always prided themselves on the fact they can. Hell when they first appeared it was a damn rarity that a pop group could perform live. They want to bring out a live album in the future along with a live dvd. The only thing stopping them is Island Records.

 

put them in the same box when it comes to music genre etc. Fine whatever, but i will never stand by and watch someone lump the Sugababes in the same box as GA when it come to talent. Keisha Buchanan's pinky nail dirt has more talent than GA could dream of.

Oh dear, you biased Sugababesloon. :lol: I think that was pretty spun-off tbh. Keisha, talented, puh-leease. She barely can hit a high note without not making people binge and if they're so talented what made them bring out one of the vilest albums of last year (and even the most generous of critics and their own fans agree). Catfights and Spotlights was a complete f***-up tbh, and the major flop of the album and 2nd single manifests, even for an established act, you can make success of a $h!t/average record which not even they, a popular and LOCAL uk GIRL GROUP could do. I think that's more than enough to prove how talented they really are to bring out something like they did, Mutya Buena made SB and she HAD talent but since she's left, she left the Babes with nothing and the other girls AND that Keisha creature could only come up with C&S after how many months in studio?.. after hearing 'Girls' I couldn't help but LOL at how downhill they've become. Now, Phily Wilz, after everything I just said, and you know very well it's true, just admitt your precious girls aren't that 'talented' especially in comparison to GA, who've proved enough and their consistancy shows enough to substantiate this. So really, starting another Cheryl GA slag over another Sugas boast really isn't needed again. I honestly feel sorry for the GA fans on this forum who constantly have to defend GA against these slaggers who seem to crave our reactions. Then people having the nerve to call us lunatics - is pretty LOL considering how many people on this forum, you could say are 'GA slagloons' ..

Edited March 23, 200916 yr by Kath Aloud

Well, think what you want, Scott but it's obvious a person like yourself who is pretty much against the majority of pop acts will slag GA and Cheryl, and in pop literally everything comes with the 'manufactured' tag, I fail to see GaGa not being 'manufactured' she literaly worked with the best producers and got so much hype surrounding her that she's now got 2 consecutive no.1's on her first two singles, she can BARELY sing well except for one or two off the Cherrytree sessions. She so hyped about that she barely has to work or do any promo, everything literally falls into her lap, and rightfully so, her songs are epic as I've always said and eventually convinced you to go against what you usually stand for, and listen to her. Yes, GA are obviously a manufactured act, and I completely agree with every point Bertie's intelligently made. But there is a lot of true personality, true role models, hard work and plenty talent behind GA than just labelling them as manufactured. Cheryl and the girls work their freakin asses off, day in and day out, whether it'd be perfecting a song for a day with only 2 hours sleep, to climbing Kilimanjaro for charity, or spending a week on filming an underwater video where they have to be facedown in the deep end of an aquarium miming words, how many musicians would be able to live a lifestyle like that, not many. Amy Lee and Sharon are hardly as hard working and occupied and dedicated to the industry as GA, yes they've got vocals, and some degree of songwriting and piano talent but that's about it. I'd say you know a bit too little about GA, you don't even know cheryl personally so how can you judge her as fake. Every girl in GA IS a role model to literally every girl out there, they do $h!t loads to get what they earn and hardly ever put a foot wrong even with the paparazzi's all over them compare that to Miley Cyrus, Amy Winehouse or Lily Allen. The are ABSOLUTELY role models to other girls, and especially to me, so I am living evidence to that, where you had no substantiation to that point.. On the talent side, do you think an average girl or even yourself would be able to work like GA do, perfect like GA do, be able to perform like GA do, have an image like GA do and be in the studio working hand in hand vocally like GA do. I sure as hell don't think so. So yes, GA are manufactured. But you can't compare Amy and Sharon with GaGa or GA, they're all from completely different corners and aspects of the music industry. And GA are absolutely role models, and have $h!t loads of work ethic and talent than probably 3.9/4 of the world and half the music industry.

 

This is quite possibly the biggest pile of bull$hite I have ever had the misfortune to read on this site. Your comments criticising Lady GaGa are so ludicrous it is laughable.

 

For crying out loud why do you think the likes of David Bowie; Radiohead; Depeche Mode; Duran Duran; The Cure; The Killers & Pet Shop Boys have praised her?

 

An artist whom writes & records their own compositions as well as having a very strong visual concept of their own image which is what Lady GaGa is; will always be superior to a manufactured popstar like Cheryl Cole's band.

 

The very fact that Girls Aloud have sold close to zero amount of records outside of Britain & Ireland should tell you something. I.E. They are not exactly original or groundbreaking because most other nations have their own equivalent manufactured version of Girls Aloud.

 

Give me British girlgroups like Client (whom are unknown in the UK; but sell significant amount of records in Scandinavia; Germany & Eastern Europe) or The Pipettes (whose first album did rather well in the USA) to Girls Aloud because at least their music is original as they had input in to it instead of the 5 mannequins with only two good singers (Nadine & Nicola) in the group.

 

As for Cheryl; the minute she came out with the claim that Girls Aloud were better than The Spice Girls ever were; then that was it. I never liked her before as she came across badly in the Channel 4 documentary compared to other members of the band. But hey her PR is done by Max Clifford. He also does the PR for Simon Cowell; Louis Walsh ... but not Dannii Minogue. So as Max Clifford has just made a former racist appear to be a Saint Chav Diana then it is hardly a stretch to make Cheryl Cole look good.

 

Funny, I can't remember Girls Aloud releasing a debut single that topped the charts in over 30 countries including the USA & Japan becoming the 11th biggest selling single of all time in the World & the fastest selling debut single ever. Or releasing an album that topped the charts in 38 countries selling in excess of 25 million copies.

 

But then again The Spice Girls were the first girlgroup in the history of pop music to become the biggest act in the world as they were for a good 18 months. All the while they co-wrote their own material whilst having a large degree of control over their marketing and image.