All radio communications are monitered by the FIA, that is the only way they really could have thrown it and left a shred of evidence.

 

If they had evidence Renault would have been called up last year after the Grand Prix.

 

Yes, it looks suspicious from the outside, but given Piquet's form it was always going to be a question of when he threw it into a barrier not if.

 

There would not be a prosecution on the basis of radio communications tbh, more likely Piquet Jnr having been sacked from Renault showed the FIA emails or internal communications or other forms of evidence, no one would be stupid enough to say over the radio "Nelsinho wall this lap" for example

 

Plus stuff might show up on the telemetry that might raise FIA suspicions

 

My personal feeling is that this is politically motivated but if hard evidence emerges then I won't have any sympathy

 

More likely I would say Piquet Snr is behind this, Max is a nasty piece of work but Nelson Snr takes it to a whole new level in his days as a driver

There would not be a prosecution on the basis of radio communications tbh, more likely Piquet Jnr having been sacked from Renault showed the FIA emails or internal communications or other forms of evidence, no one would be stupid enough to say over the radio "Nelsinho wall this lap" for example

 

Plus stuff might show up on the telemetry that might raise FIA suspicions

 

My personal feeling is that this is politically motivated but if hard evidence emerges then I won't have any sympathy

 

More likely I would say Piquet Snr is behind this, Max is a nasty piece of work but Nelson Snr takes it to a whole new level in his days as a driver

Once agian with the Telemetry, they would have looked at that after the race and if there was any reason to be suspicious it would have been dealt with then.

 

 

I think you're correct with the Political theory. The allegations were made on Brazilian TV just after we've sacked a Brazilian driver. They gave the FIA a nice little reason to ruin our name further. We're having a $h!tty season, we're down in f***ing 8th, the lowest we've ever been iirc. The car is just not working and once again all everyone can talk about is when is Alonso jumping ship. 09 has been a $h!t season from start to finish and the FIA seem hell bent on making sure this $h!t season is our last

More likely I would say Piquet Snr is behind this, Max is a nasty piece of work but Nelson Snr takes it to a whole new level in his days as a driver

 

Good grief I remember, him and Mansell made Alonso & Hamilton seem like bosom buddies in comparison.

 

Still the 1987 British GP was great; and I'll never forget after a racing incident when Piquet took Mansell out, Mansell thumped him good and proper. Those were the days.

 

Now Alonso or Hamilton could say something that could be construed as derogatory by the other's set of fans and it would be like the end of the world to the world's sporting media. :lol:

Hamilton would have the UK press behind him tho. Alonso just used to get $h!t loads of bad press for no reason.

 

The Spanish press do the reverse so i can't complain too much :kink:

Good grief I remember, him and Mansell made Alonso & Hamilton seem like bosom buddies in comparison.

 

Still the 1987 British GP was great; and I'll never forget after a racing incident when Piquet took Mansell out, Mansell thumped him good and proper. Those were the days.

 

Now Alonso or Hamilton could say something that could be construed as derogatory by the other's set of fans and it would be like the end of the world to the world's sporting media. :lol:

 

And Piquet / Senna :o

 

Nelson used to wear a t shirt in the pitlane and paddock with the words "Nelson Piquet - Brazil's Straight F1 Driver" as a dig at suggesting Senna was a homosexual

 

He made Frank Williams's life an absolute misery too with his underhand and political behaviour

Edited September 4, 200915 yr by B.A Baracus

:drama: If Renault are Disqualified from the '05 and '06 and indeed all of them, then that will mean that in '05, '06 and '07 the WCC was decided in a court room.

 

If the result of Sinagpore is nullifed then Massa will end up as '08 Champion and if just the Renault's are Disqualified then Rosberg will get his first win a year on, not a great way to win your first race.

 

If they have been race fixing then it's a very serious crime in the sport, but it's going to create a lot of mess if the results of other seasons are altered.

 

I still hope that Renault haven't cheated and that no previous results are changed.

Edited September 5, 200915 yr by nickthenoodle

They take away Renault's points for 2008 Hamilton will be WDC by 6 points instead of 1 so it would make no difference to the title nick

:drama: If Renault are Disqualified from the '05 and '06 and indeed all of them, then that will mean that in '05, '06 and '07 the WCC was decided in a court room.

 

If the result of Sinagpore is nullifed then Massa will end up as '08 Champion and if just the Renault's are Disqualified then Rosberg will get his first win a year on, not a great way to win your first race.

 

If they have been race fixing then it's a very serious crime in the sport, but it's going to create a lot of mess if the results of other seasons are altered.

 

I still hope that Renault haven't cheated and that no previous results are changed.

 

Also Massa would not be declared WDC

 

Massa didn't lose out in Singapore due to the safety car he lost out in Singapore because of incompetent mechanics so that dodgy pitstop could have occured any time during the race, Massa did not lose out because of the safety car, he would have had his $h!t pitstop at any time, it was just $h!t fate

 

And much as I dislike Hamilton I recognise the legitimacy of his title and would not want nor would Massa want Massa to be declared champion in some courtroom as opposed to on the track

 

Hamilton won't be stripped of the title regardless of what happens at the WMSC

They take away Renault's points for 2008 Hamilton will be WDC by 6 points instead of 1 so it would make no difference to the title nick

 

If they just disqualified Renault and its drivers that would be true, however if they simply nullified the results of Singapore then Hamilton would lose 6pts for his third place.

 

I have faith in the FIA though and they've never changed a WDC result before and it would be ridiculous to change the results and make an innocent party lose it.

 

I'm still hoping it's just a big co-incidence and that Renault are cleared.

If they just disqualified Renault and its drivers that would be true, however if they simply nullified the results of Singapore then Hamilton would lose 6pts for his third place.

 

I have faith in the FIA though and they've never changed a WDC result before and it would be ridiculous to change the results and make an innocent party lose it.

 

I'm still hoping it's just a big co-incidence and that Renault are cleared.

 

That is not how they do things, they would not nullify the WHOLE result, they would simply disqualify Alonso in which case Rosberg will inherit the win and Hamilton will be pushed up to 2nd

 

Like with Malaysia 99 when Ferrari were found to have illegal barge board they disqualified Schumacher and Irvine after the race and promoted Hakkinen to the win they did not nullify the whole result, although Ferrari won their appeal

 

So the only thing that would come out of this is that Alonso would be disqualified and everyone pushed up a place

Once agian with the Telemetry, they would have looked at that after the race and if there was any reason to be suspicious it would have been dealt with then.

I think you're correct with the Political theory. The allegations were made on Brazilian TV just after we've sacked a Brazilian driver. They gave the FIA a nice little reason to ruin our name further. We're having a $h!tty season, we're down in f***ing 8th, the lowest we've ever been iirc. The car is just not working and once again all everyone can talk about is when is Alonso jumping ship. 09 has been a $h!t season from start to finish and the FIA seem hell bent on making sure this $h!t season is our last

 

I await the 21st with great interest, I suspect that the "evidence" is very circumstancial and very much "he said, she said" without any real hard concrete proof, basically Piquet's word v Flav's but if hard evidence is made public then in my opinion Renault deserve very harsh punishment but all will be revealed in due course but I suspect this is Mosley just trying to settle one final grudge before his retirement but I hope to god Renault didn't do this

That is not how they do things, they would not nullify the WHOLE result, they would simply disqualify Alonso in which case Rosberg will inherit the win and Hamilton will be pushed up to 2nd

 

Like with Malaysia 99 when Ferrari were found to have illegal barge board they disqualified Schumacher and Irvine after the race and promoted Hakkinen to the win they did not nullify the whole result, although Ferrari won their appeal

 

So the only thing that would come out of this is that Alonso would be disqualified and everyone pushed up a place

 

Not according to The Times.

 

One penalty option definitely available to the FIA is to disqualify Alonso & Renault, and classify the race result as at the end of lap 13, the last completed lap before that incident took place, so awarding half points (5 Pts for a Win; 4 Pts for 2nd; etc) as more than 3 laps and less than 75% of the race distance took place.

 

At that point in time Massa's Ferrari was leading ahead of of Hamilton's McLaren.

 

Hence as Massa went on to fail to score points; and Lewis Hamilton went on to finished 3rd = 6 Pts.

 

Then Massa would gain +5 Pts (5 - 0); and Lewis Hamilton would lose -2 (4 - 6) Pts.

 

Therefore Felipe Massa would be crowned F1 2008 WC by a 6 Point margin (102 Pts to 96 Pts).

 

If you seriously don't think Mad Max & the F(errari) I(nternational) A(ssistance) would not be capable of pulling this stunt, then quite frankly you are naive. Especially as Mad Max is retiring from FIA at the end of the season and is a huge fan of Ferrari; and certainly not of McLaren what a perfect way for him to sign off and get his revenge.

If Renault is guilty then wouldn't FIA just disqualify the team and the drivers of the whole season? That means FIA will not change the results of any race but will nick their points from the drivers championship and constructors?

Not according to The Times.

 

One penalty option definitely available to the FIA is to disqualify Alonso & Renault, and classify the race result as at the end of lap 13, the last completed lap before that incident took place, so awarding half points (5 Pts for a Win; 4 Pts for 2nd; etc) as more than 3 laps and less than 75% of the race distance took place.

 

At that point in time Massa's Ferrari was leading ahead of of Hamilton's McLaren.

 

Hence as Massa went on to fail to score points; and Lewis Hamilton went on to finished 3rd = 6 Pts.

 

Then Massa would gain +5 Pts (5 - 0); and Lewis Hamilton would lose -2 (4 - 6) Pts.

 

Therefore Felipe Massa would be crowned F1 2008 WC by a 6 Point margin (102 Pts to 96 Pts).

 

If you seriously don't think Mad Max & the F(errari) I(nternational) A(ssistance) would not be capable of pulling this stunt, then quite frankly you are naive. Especially as Mad Max is retiring from FIA at the end of the season and is a huge fan of Ferrari; and certainly not of McLaren what a perfect way for him to sign off and get his revenge.

 

It is possible but the lawsuits that would fly from McLaren at the FIA would make it not worth Todt's time once he succeeds Mosley, McLaren would take this all the way tbh if Hamilton was stripped of the title over a technicality a year later, a civil court would be a lot harder for the FIA to convince with any evidence than the WMSC kangaroo court, I think McLaren would wipe the floor with the FIA in a civil court

 

Also Massa himself is a proud man and would have no desire to be crowned a WDC in a smoke filled courtroom as opposed to on the track

 

I think most likely either Renault will be found innocent or Renault will plea bargain and sarcifice Flav same way as McLaren sacrificed Dennis after Liegate and it would be put down to the actions of one rogue employee acting on his own (Flav)

 

 

Flav won't go for a plee. He'll fight the whole way.

 

 

I hope to christ we didn't do this. It's not as if our car wasn't capable, we did win again the weekend after without Piquet throwing it into a wall. The car had the pace.

 

I agree that it'd be circumstantial at best, but i can see the FIA prosecuting Renault and us having to appeal or launch a civil suit to clear our name.

 

 

What mad max hasn't quite realised is that this isn't as simple as McLaren. McLaren is an F1 team first and foremost. Renault is the 5th/6th largest Automobile Manufacturer in the world. Being found 'guilty' at the end of a 4year witch hunt would kill their international reputation. With the recession and Nissan's huge losses thanks to the US market collapsing, Renault can't afford this to affect sales.

 

The FIA will lose one of the best teams in the field and some of the sports best staff.

 

If it does come out that we did fix it and there is firm and proper evidence, then we deserve what we get. If this is purely Max's attempt to kill us once and for all after 4years of trying then i hope someone drags him into a dark alley and makes him suffer. :)

If it does come out that we did fix it and there is firm and proper evidence, then we deserve what we get. If this is purely Max's attempt to kill us once and for all after 4years of trying then i hope someone drags him into a dark alley and makes him suffer. :)

 

The problem is, he would probably enjoy that. :lol:

The problem is, he would probably enjoy that. :lol:

Very true. :heehee:

 

Hopefully they'll use knifes tho. I seriously hate that man.

Flav won't go for a plee. He'll fight the whole way.

I hope to christ we didn't do this. It's not as if our car wasn't capable, we did win again the weekend after without Piquet throwing it into a wall. The car had the pace.

 

I agree that it'd be circumstantial at best, but i can see the FIA prosecuting Renault and us having to appeal or launch a civil suit to clear our name.

What mad max hasn't quite realised is that this isn't as simple as McLaren. McLaren is an F1 team first and foremost. Renault is the 5th/6th largest Automobile Manufacturer in the world. Being found 'guilty' at the end of a 4year witch hunt would kill their international reputation. With the recession and Nissan's huge losses thanks to the US market collapsing, Renault can't afford this to affect sales.

 

The FIA will lose one of the best teams in the field and some of the sports best staff.

 

If it does come out that we did fix it and there is firm and proper evidence, then we deserve what we get. If this is purely Max's attempt to kill us once and for all after 4years of trying then i hope someone drags him into a dark alley and makes him suffer. :)

 

McLaren are owned 40% by Mercedes and a further 30% by proxy via the Abu Dhabi royal family and have been their engine partner for 12 years and Mercedes themselves would have been as associated with Liegate/Spygate as McLaren/Dennis

 

Also Flav is just a salaried employee of Renault so I don't think Renault management would have any hesitation to throw him to the wolves to protect their entrants IF it is proven Piquet was ordered to crash, Mercedes effectively threw Dennis to the wolves and he was a much bigger fish than Flav is, much as I hate the man Ron Dennis is without doubt one of the greatest 4 or 5 F1 bosses of all time

McLaren are owned 40% by Mercedes and a further 30% by proxy via the Abu Dhabi royal family and have been their engine partner for 12 years and Mercedes themselves would have been as associated with Liegate/Spygate as McLaren/Dennis

 

Also Flav is just a salaried employee of Renault so I don't think Renault management would have any hesitation to throw him to the wolves to protect their entrants IF it is proven Piquet was ordered to crash, Mercedes effectively threw Dennis to the wolves and he was a much bigger fish than Flav is, much as I hate the man Ron Dennis is without doubt one of the greatest 4 or 5 F1 bosses of all time

Renault is 100% manufacturer owned.

 

Merc didn't get hurt as bad because the team is known as McLaren as opposed to Mercedes-Benz.

 

Flavio is quite a big fish, i think his reach in Renault goes a bit further than we expect. After all Renault only committed for extra years if he'd stay on. He's very well respected and a fantastic team manager.

Not according to The Times.

 

One penalty option definitely available to the FIA is to disqualify Alonso & Renault, and classify the race result as at the end of lap 13, the last completed lap before that incident took place, so awarding half points (5 Pts for a Win; 4 Pts for 2nd; etc) as more than 3 laps and less than 75% of the race distance took place.

 

At that point in time Massa's Ferrari was leading ahead of of Hamilton's McLaren.

 

Hence as Massa went on to fail to score points; and Lewis Hamilton went on to finished 3rd = 6 Pts.

 

Then Massa would gain +5 Pts (5 - 0); and Lewis Hamilton would lose -2 (4 - 6) Pts.

 

Therefore Felipe Massa would be crowned F1 2008 WC by a 6 Point margin (102 Pts to 96 Pts).

 

If you seriously don't think Mad Max & the F(errari) I(nternational) A(ssistance) would not be capable of pulling this stunt, then quite frankly you are naive. Especially as Mad Max is retiring from FIA at the end of the season and is a huge fan of Ferrari; and certainly not of McLaren what a perfect way for him to sign off and get his revenge.

 

I was afraid they might consider that, as BA Barracus said, usually when teams break the rules just their drivers are disqualified, however having an illegal car and race fixing are two different things. And if this raced was indeed fixed by Renault then effectively is changed the whole championship.

 

Massa is my favourite driver of all time, but I'd rather see him win his title on track than be given it and it would be mightily unfair to Lewis.

 

Luckily I can't see them nullifying the results, perhaps just Disqualifying Renault from Constructors standings as they did with McLaren in 2007.