I hope CliveR from The Dualers' official site forum won't mind me quoting him here -

 

Information reaching Dualers' HQ indicates that no chart entry was registered for this week as "The officials don't believe the sales figures of the past three days"

 

As it is Sunday and no business offices can be contacted, Charlotte will post a detailed note on the website tomorrow (Monday June 19) regarding the situation.

 

but I'm interested in this, because I've only just found out about The Dualers myself this week, liked the song and so I downloaded it - I've since found out a bit more about them and it seems whatever they have managed to achieve, they have done so through their own sheer hard work, completely independantly- it seems a shame for that hard work and effort not to be 'officially' recognised properly :( I've noted that they've got a chart postition of #61 - but it seems that hasn't included their last 3 days sales or something - all seems very odd to me :wacko: So, I just wanted to flag this up over here, to see if any of the chart-knowledgeable forum users we have over here, know whether this sort of thing happens often with unsigned artists, or whether it's unusual?

 

 

This is so unfair!!!!

 

These guys have worked their backsides off to get this single in the charts. It's their third single, the first reached no.21 the second no.23. All of this was achieved soley through busking on the streets in the South East. No air play, no media backing and certainly no fianancial backing - just sheer hard work.

 

I was in Croydon on Saturday and saw for myself just how many singles they were selling. Virgin were selling bucketloads and even had a seperate till set up just for their sales!

 

They also sold a huge amount in Romford the day before.

 

I do hope this can be turned around and justice prevails - they have been denied a place in the charts just because they are buskers and the Chart company can't believe they sold so many singles without a heavy mob of management behind them! :angry:

Edited June 19, 200619 yr by Lou

perhaps there were simply too many sales in a small amount of outlets, or perhaps those sales were bulk purchases?

 

Football songs, as an example, often sell in only a handful of shops, especially for smaller football teams, but the OCC / Millward Brown will pull sales where sales look suspicious. A Scottish band had their record pulled from the charts a few years ago after a bunch of suspicious sales in the Glasgow area.

 

Are you sure the record wasn't just a low seller? For it to be given a chart position at all... well, normally the OCC will pull a record if there are suspicious sales rather than just pull sales from one or two days, though they can do this if they wish. They can also ignore sales from a certain store while still counting others.

Edited June 19, 200619 yr by Robbie

If that is the case then it is even more unfair!

 

Yes, all sales in Croydon on Saturday were made at either HMV or Virgin. They have backed the boys all along with these singles.

 

For god's sake - the boys were busking right outside the shop!!!!

 

It definitely wasn't bulk sales - you only had to see the queue for signings to see that.

 

I would have been the same in Bromley and Romford - all sales would have been made in the shop they were busking outside of i.e HMV or Virgin

 

I haven't heard the sales figues yet but I'm pretty certain they sold enough for a good chart entry.

Edited June 19, 200619 yr by Lou

If sales were disallowed, the OCC should let the record label know - the OCC have to file a report every time this happens.

incidentally, not only have football songs charted on sales in a small handful of stores, but also about 3 years ago a record made the top 30 on sales in about 6 record stores (I forget the song and artist!).

 

The Millward Brown computer is designed to pick up on bulk or suspicious sales patterns and to refer the record for investigation and did with this song I've just mentioned. However, a quick investigation revealed that it was a self-financed release by an artist who had talked 6 or so Virgin record stores into stocking the single. I wonder if the computer picked up the bulk sales in your case a bit too late to undertake an investigation?

Thanks Robbie!

 

This sounds a very likely case. The Dualers sales were only in a handful of stores and most in the last three days.

 

It's a disgrace that a full investigation was obviously not undertaken - this record was completely self financed and the sales are genuine. They have picked up a fanbase of over 30,000 over the years just by busking alone.

 

Apparently the situation can now not be reversed :angry:

Thanks for the info Robbie - it's interesting to know about things that have happened previously and what the OCC can do etc...

 

From what's been said here, I can't say that I really understand why, if record sales come from a small amount of outlets, that should automatically mean they are "suspicious" though? Obviously, if a band are operating independantly without a major or large record-label's distribution powers, then the likelihood is that they'll be limited to a small number of outlets surely? Also, without radio/tv/nationwide exposure, they're more likely to have sales concentrated in the areas they are know and play locally (like the Scottish band mentioned) ... how is that "suspicious"? - it seems pretty logical, that these things will be the case to me :wacko: - It seems like a catch22 for artists in this circumstance :wacko:

 

It just doesn't seem right to me that simply having "suspicion" - particularly based on something like the above, means those sales can be discounted end of? ... I could understand a 'suspension' pending proper investigation, something of that nature - the report will obviously be of interest, but what good will a report do, if these sales turn out to be genuine sales?

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure, but don't quote me on this, did The Dualers once performed on the Jonathan Ross show, as I remember seeing them somewhere on TV, or it could have been another band mixing them up with another band.

I don't think so Mikey.

 

The only shows I know they have been featured on are This Morning, GMTV and local news bulletins. :)

 

And most of these were a 'blink and you miss it' slot :blink:

I don't think so Mikey.

 

The only shows I know they have been featured on are This Morning, GMTV and local news bulletins. :)

 

And most of these were a 'blink and you miss it' slot :blink:

 

Thanks for clearing that up

 

perhaps there were simply too many sales in a small amount of outlets, or perhaps those sales were bulk purchases?Are you sure the record wasn't just a low seller?

 

What is wrong with too many sales? The Dualers work hard, the fans appreciate it, love their music, also many of the fans give up alot of their free time to help them out. The Dualers have been busking for 10 years, have accumulated a very large fan base, if they have ANOTHER SINGLE out, they are obviously going to buy it, as each day passes The Dualers get more admiration from more people.

If there is a limited amount of stores that stock the record, one can only expect sales in a 'small amount of outlets'.

The majority of us are aware of 'bulk purchases'. We would only be buying early Christmas presents/birthday presents etc, it's not as though anyone was buying '50' at a time after all what do the Record 'Officials' class as 'bulk purchases'?

How can the record be a low seller? They sold over a 1000 copies in Romford alone on Friday, probably about the same if not more on the Saturday in Croydon.

They were busking from 9.30am - 5.30pm most days last week in Bromley and Romford, plus they did a gig at Koko's on Wednesday evening. (To which a few of us fans went and was absolutely excellent)

The Dualers are dedicated to their work and deserve so much more than what the 'officials' appear to be giving them.

Before anyone has the need to 'put the dualers down' i suggest they visit their home page at The Dualers read about them and look at the forum. Then they have a right to say something, until you have seen/know The Dualers, no comment can be made against them.

Thank you for your time in reading this, and help 'us' to get The Dualers the recognition they so deserve.

 

 

 

I don't think so Mikey.

 

The only shows I know they have been featured on are This Morning, GMTV and local news bulletins. :)

 

And most of these were a 'blink and you miss it' slot :blink:

 

Was there a This Morning appearance recently Lou? - I thought from what you'd told me it was one from a good while ago that never actually happened - confused?

 

As for the GMTV clip that you sent to me - I wouldn't class that 30-sec flash-ad as an 'appearance' - if that's what you're referring to - but either way, I don't think they are well known or that their single was known about generally was it? I'd never even heard of them until Lou posted something about them on dariusmusic.net last week - but I'm glad she did 'cos I like them :D Whether people like them or not though, isn't the reason I posted about it on here - I just knew there were some chart knowledgeable peeps around here like Robbie & Mikey, who might help me to understand what seems to me, to be a travesty - not just for The Dualers, but for any band that are unsigned and trying to be successful - like I said above, it seems a bit like a catch22 :wacko:

Edited June 19, 200619 yr by Secret_Song

Great to see you over here Chris

 

I agree with everything you say - but nobody on here is putting them down. Robbie was just trying to point out reasons why they would have been disqualified from the charts.

 

Having this discussion over here will maybe help to hightlight the unfairness of it all and at the same time make more people aware of the Dualers :)

Was there a This Morning appearance recently Lou? - I thought from what you'd told me it was one that never actually happened - confused?

 

As for the GMTV clip that you sent to me - I wouldn't class that 30-sec flash-ad as an 'appearance' - if that's what you're referring to - but either way, I don't think they are well known or that their single was known about generally was it? I'd never even heard of them until Lou posted something about them on dariusmusic.net last week - but I'm glad she did 'cos I like them :D Whether people like them or not though, isn't the reason I posted about it on here - I just knew there were some chart knowledgeable peeps around here like Robbie & Mikey, who might help me to understand what seems to me, to be a travesty - not just for The Dualers, but for any band that are unsigned and trying to be successful - like I said above, it seems a bit like a catch22 :wacko:

 

I know the GMTV clip wasn't exactly an appearance - but they got mentioned on TV didn't they? :)

 

The This Morning thing was last summer - they were featured as resident band for the week and could be seen playing in the background when they were recording outside on the South Bank. They were also shown in the background throughout the week. They were meant to be performing at the end of the week but something 'more important' came up and they lost there 'slot'. Well that's what I believe happened :(

I must admit that initially I did think Robbie was putting them down, but realised halfway through me writing I realised he wasn't (I apologise), but you know me, once I start I just can't stop ;)

 

I'm just sooooo annoyed/angry/frustrated at this ridiculous situation and can only hope that Good will come out of it. :)

I must admit that initially I did think Robbie was putting them down, but realised halfway through me writing I realised he wasn't (I apologise), but you know me, once I start I just can't stop ;)

 

I'm just sooooo annoyed/angry/frustrated at this ridiculous situation and can only hope that Good will come out of it. :)

 

 

Me too :angry:

 

It was a brilliant day on Saturday and you all did a fantastic job with the sponsored walk - promoting the guys along the way. Well done!

 

Judging by how well they were selling the single on Saturday I'm still shocked and stunned by the outcome :(

The trouble with unsigned bands, they are in a small minority with no backing whatsoever, and OCC will overlook them, but as Robbie pointed out above, if there is suspicuous sales, the OCC can ignore the sales, as they are only from a couple of record outlets. If it was a wide spread distribution it would have been a different story altogether.

 

Anyhow welcome Chirasin. Hope to see you around more often, and I will take a look at the site later, when I get some free time, first impression, it looks great. I can get a few tasters of The Dualers, in a nutshell I haven't heard any of their material, I will welcome their music with open arms. :)

Hi guys, just wanted to come and show our support for the boys.

 

We did the sponsered walk on Saturday, kids thoroughly enjoyed it. The kids are devastated about this whole chart thing.

 

Mind you they are even more determined now to help the boys out as much as possible, they wont give up and i admire them for that.

 

Lets hope something good comes out of this whole mess.

The Dualers are no strangers to strange chart runs: their first hit Kiss On The Lips had a run of 21-33-out of top 75, and their 2nd hit Truly Madly Deeply had a run of 23-out of top 75 (incidentally this song had a very large climb from its midweek position IIRC).

 

Songs to have been DQ'd from the chart due to alleged 'fixing':

Don-E - Peace In The World (removed after one week at #41)

Tatjana - Santa Maria (was later re-issued and made #40)

Lemonescent - Unconditional Love

Modern - Industry

and some Telford United song last year (forget the exact title)

 

Another record worth mentioning is Koopa - No Trend, which apparently had some first week sales missing - these were then added on to its 2nd week sales, thus causing it to climb to #71, so maybe this could happen here.

 

but also about 3 years ago a record made the top 30 on sales in about 6 record stores (I forget the song and artist!).

 

That would be Mark Joseph's debut hit Get Through (#38 in March 2003).

 

Incidentally, Mark Joseph's 3rd hit Bringing Back Those Memories was top 10 in the midweeks, but only ended up at #34 as a lot of its sales were people buying 'box sets' containing all 3 formats - and sales of these do not count towards the chart, so this may be what has happened here.