imo, if eurotrance, which has been established here is a mix of pop and trance, you cant brush it off saying "oh its just pop" just because you happen to dislike it. Trance plays a big part on those songs and is therefore a part of it. So imo, it falls does fall under one of many subgenres of trance. for me the likes of ATB or DJ Jean are closer related to System F and Rank 1 than Christina Aguilera for example, and the reason for that is definitely the trance influence on those artists.

...... but the contemporary style was trance.... so it was pop influenced by trance, trance in a pop style...

 

Exactly.

imo, if eurotrance, which has been established here is a mix of pop and trance, you cant brush it off saying "oh its just pop" just because you happen to dislike it. Trance plays a big part on those songs and is therefore a part of it. So imo, it falls does fall under one of many subgenres of trance. for me the likes of ATB or DJ Jean are closer related to System F and Rank 1 than Christina Aguilera for example, and the reason for that is definitely the trance influence on those artists.

 

You're wrong, it's merely Pop done in a different way.... Why's it such a big deal to just call 'Pop', 'Pop'....? Why dress it up, and give it some kind of "cool"-sounding label that doesn't fit...? The ONLY reason = MARKETING STRATEGY, simply calling it Pop or "Europop" isn't considered "cool" in Y2K, so marketing men came up with EUROTRANCE.... OOOOOH, edgy, dead "street" that innit....? Same with "Urban" (whatever the fukk that is....), "Nu Metal" and "Emo" (which was once Emotional Hardcore, a mixture of US Hardcore Punk and 80s UK Indie acts, such as Smiths, Cure, etc, er, but now what the Hell IS IT....? to paraphrase a well-known song-title, Smells Like Teen Horsesh!t to me.... :rolleyes: ) Just bullsh!t marketing terms which are so far removed from their actual origins as to be completely meaningless.....

its not just calling it trance just to give it a cool name. No way in hell do I consider it just pop, I can clearly see how the trance name is there, the genre is definitely mixed in. I could say the same thing of "why is it such a big deal to call it eurotrance, a subgenre of trance"? Those artists have fused trance music into their music, and it'll always be a part of it. Yes they might have tried to fuse in trance because it was a popular genre that was selling, but it is still there. That's what happens when things start to go commercial. But there's no point in isolating that by itself, it comes with the package.

its not just calling it trance just to give it a cool name. No way in hell do I consider it just pop, I can clearly see how the trance name is there, the genre is definitely mixed in. I could say the same thing of "why is it such a big deal to call it eurotrance, a subgenre of trance"? Those artists have fused trance music into their music, and it'll always be a part of it. Yes they might have tried to fuse in trance because it was a popular genre that was selling, but it is still there. That's what happens when things start to go commercial. But there's no point in isolating that by itself, it comes with the package.

 

I'm sorry, I hear what you say, but I simply cannot agree... The term "Trance" (and even the term "Dance Music" in general actually...) has become as over(ab)used as the terms "Alternative" and "Indie", imo.... At one point you KNEW what "Alternative" and "Indie" were, the same as at one point you knew what "Trance" was.... Now, thanks to all the watering down, dumbing down and abuse by the marketeers to give a fresh-sounding label to their pretty hoary old rope, those terms became removed from their actual origins, and now you get people coming along and virtually re-writing history to airbrush out the originators of these terms, the true, original acts who pioneered the styles, to try and make out like it all occurred at some point in the Late-90s...... Absolute cr@p they did......

well Grimly (sorry dont know your first name), I guess we just have to agree that we disagree, at least when it comes to the trance-pop thing. Both of us have strong and fixed opinions on it but I doubt either of us are gonna change our views. One thing is for sure, as trance continues to grow and expand, bringing new ideas, new genres into the the mix, the less likely it'll resemble the original trance of the late 80s, and more likely it'll sound like a mish mash of different genres, producing endless amount of subgenres. Even proper trance artists these days dont sound much like the original thing, but that's how music works.

Anyway, its been nice arguing this and it's been an interesting debate, but I think i'm gonna withdraw since I have expressed my point of view quite clearly on this subject, otherwise we'll keep saying the same things endlessly.

Even proper trance artists these days dont sound much like the original thing,

 

Yeah, but they dont sound like the sh!t Europap either though, do they......? ;)

 

Proper TRANCE will grow, and expand, but that expansion aint gonna come from the suits in their air-conditioned record company offices... It's gonna come from the 'guerilla warfare'-style tactics from the underground scenes or the Net.... Internet is the future for music - record companies are in their death throes......GOOD.....

 

Here are a selection of tracks that firmly belong in the genre "trance". These were tracks that crossed-over on almost completely club rotation and off-air exposure. These are PROPER great tracks and will defy anyone to discount them as euro-cheese fodder. (sorry for some reason the youtube function on here isn't working!)

 

Lost Tribe - Gamemaster (Signum Mix)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9-r-qMVKWY

 

Veracocha - Carte Blanche

 

 

Binary Finary - 1998 (Paul Van Dyk Mix) (Gouryella's mix is usually the favorite, but I think PvD's mix has more class)

 

 

Solar Stone - 7 Cities

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSyfHXpuYbo

 

 

 

But yeah, obviously fans of trance know that 1999 is the king year for the genre, not necessarily for the many top10 hits, but for the many classics produced that year and between 1998 and 2001. And if you didnt like the genre then, well you obviously werent fans of it all along.

 

err...says who? I was a DJ throughout the 90s.... played mainly trance, hard house, electro and techno.... and I can assure you - by 1999, the genre, for DJs and clubbers, was dead on its arse.

 

I'll definitely take Gouryelle, Chicane, Veracocha, Agnelli & Nelson, Balearic Bill, Lost Tribe, Rank 1, System F, Aurora, Lost Witness, Ayla, Push, York, Solar Stone, Lustral, Matt Darey, Energy 52, etc, all over the likes Shamen whom I hated.

 

About 70% of these 1999 'classics' you name were releasedd way, way before in the decade.

 

True dance fans.... trance or not.... all realise trance's heyday was 93-94 (when most of these records first surfaced)..... the same years Age of Love, Baby Doc, Jon The Dentist, Marmion, Friends Lovers and Family, Lost Tribe (a little later), Energy 52 etc etc all came out - originally. By the time you say these tracks were 'classics' they were SIX years old to the majority of DJs and clubbers. And most clubbers simply don't want to hear records that are 6 months old - nevermind six YEARS.

 

I can't think of a single genre that took so long to kick off than trance, actually.

 

Or one that's remained as sadly stagnant..... I was playing a CD in work today and a section of the class... kiddie 'dance' fans... were all raving about it... "ah...wicked this one.... got this on such and such compilation", "they played this at Escape last month". The CD I was playing was from 1997!! What other dance genre can honestly say it's had tracks that old STILL being regurgitated for the masses?

 

The only good trance from the years mentioned was stuff like Olmec Heads, Jon OO Fleming, Transa (check out the FABULOUS 'Carla's Theme'), Vincent de Moor, Moonman etc.... stuff like Age of Love (however incredible it is), Lost Tribe (same), Energy 52 (same again)...in fact virtually ALL the fantastic Hooj Choons catalogue, was OLD by 1999..... and had been re-re-re-released (almost always with the first, original mixes still the best ones).

 

Rob - if you're a downloading man.... and you like euphoric trance stuff... check out these:

John OO Fleming - Alpha 5 (Olmec Heads Remix)

Transa - Carla's Theme

anything by Signum (good choice for that mix of Gamemaster, Scottyem - what a GREAT record that still is)

Cascade - Transend (Moonman mix)

and any of the fantastic Reactivate albums from the early to mid 90s.... i think you'll soil your pants over them to be honest. In a good way, like.... :P

err...says who? I was a DJ throughout the 90s.... played mainly trance, hard house, electro and techno.... and I can assure you - by 1999, the genre, for DJs and clubbers, was dead on its arse.

 

About 70% of these 1999 'classics' you name were releasedd way, way before in the decade.

 

True dance fans.... trance or not.... all realise trance's heyday was 93-94 (when most of these records first surfaced)..... the same years Age of Love, Baby Doc, Jon The Dentist, Marmion, Friends Lovers and Family, Lost Tribe (a little later), Energy 52 etc etc all came out - originally. By the time you say these tracks were 'classics' they were SIX years old to the majority of DJs and clubbers. And most clubbers simply don't want to hear records that are 6 months old - nevermind six YEARS.

 

I can't think of a single genre that took so long to kick off than trance, actually.

 

Or one that's remained as sadly stagnant..... I was playing a CD in work today and a section of the class... kiddie 'dance' fans... were all raving about it... "ah...wicked this one.... got this on such and such compilation", "they played this at Escape last month". The CD I was playing was from 1997!! What other dance genre can honestly say it's had tracks that old STILL being regurgitated for the masses?

 

The only good trance from the years mentioned was stuff like Olmec Heads, Jon OO Fleming, Transa (check out the FABULOUS 'Carla's Theme'), Vincent de Moor, Moonman etc.... stuff like Age of Love (however incredible it is), Lost Tribe (same), Energy 52 (same again)...in fact virtually ALL the fantastic Hooj Choons catalogue, was OLD by 1999..... and had been re-re-re-released (almost always with the first, original mixes still the best ones).

 

Rob - if you're a downloading man.... and you like euphoric trance stuff... check out these:

John OO Fleming - Alpha 5 (Olmec Heads Remix)

Transa - Carla's Theme

anything by Signum (good choice for that mix of Gamemaster, Scottyem - what a GREAT record that still is)

Cascade - Transend (Moonman mix)

and any of the fantastic Reactivate albums from the early to mid 90s.... i think you'll soil your pants over them to be honest. In a good way, like.... :P

 

And I pretty much believe that this is the final word on the subject tbh..... :lol:

Am I the only one/one of the few who likes these tracks looking at all the pages then? :lol:

 

2 Ricky Martin - Livin' La Vida Loca

3 Will Smith featuring Dru Hill - Wild Wild West

4 The Vengaboys - Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom!!

6 S Club 7 - Bring It All Back

7 Britney Spears - Sometimes

Edited July 14, 200916 yr by FM11

Am I the only one/one of the few who likes these tracks looking at all the pages then? :lol:

 

2 Ricky Martin - Livin' La Vida Loca

3 Will Smith featuring Dru Hill - Wild Wild West

4 The Vengaboys - Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom!!

6 S Club 7 - Bring It All Back

7 Britney Spears - Sometimes

 

Yes, I pretty much think you are..... :lol: :lol:

 

I'm sorry, I hear what you say, but I simply cannot agree... The term "Trance" (and even the term "Dance Music" in general actually...) has become as over(ab)used as the terms "Alternative" and "Indie", imo.... At one point you KNEW what "Alternative" and "Indie" were, the same as at one point you knew what "Trance" was.... Now, thanks to all the watering down, dumbing down and abuse by the marketeers to give a fresh-sounding label to their pretty hoary old rope, those terms became removed from their actual origins, and now you get people coming along and virtually re-writing history to airbrush out the originators of these terms, the true, original acts who pioneered the styles, to try and make out like it all occurred at some point in the Late-90s...... Absolute cr@p they did......

 

sorry, i dont agree.

 

you are trying to limit trance , pigeonhole it, but in reality like all genres it aint black and white. NO genre is.... and there has always been a commercial end to every marketable genre thats come out. now the commercial trance/pop from 99 isnt real trance, like ive said its contemporary pop done in a contemporary style...in 99 that style was trance so there will be alot of poptrance tracks around. GOOD! because by hearing these it broadend its appeal to a wider audience.

 

just look at the charts from 78 or 79.... theres lots of punkpop , the adverts, rezillos, plastic bertrand hell even jilted john! :lol: .... not REAL punk but pop done in the contemporary fashion...

look at 82, 83,... culture club? modern romance? not REAL 'new romantic' but pop done in the contemporary fashion...

 

now i dont like culture club being refered to as 'new romantic' and more then alice dee jay 'better off alone' being called trance.... but they are both reprisenting the style fashion of their time and both in a pop way reflect that times mood.

 

so no, europop/trance aint real trance... it is pop, but it boarders trance. i have no problem with any genre having a wide spectrum.

 

err...says who? I was a DJ throughout the 90s.... played mainly trance, hard house, electro and techno.... and I can assure you - by 1999, the genre, for DJs and clubbers, was dead on its arse.

About 70% of these 1999 'classics' you name were releasedd way, way before in the decade.

 

True dance fans.... trance or not.... all realise trance's heyday was 93-94 (when most of these records first surfaced)..... the same years Age of Love, Baby Doc, Jon The Dentist, Marmion, Friends Lovers and Family, Lost Tribe (a little later), Energy 52 etc etc all came out - originally. By the time you say these tracks were 'classics' they were SIX years old to the majority of DJs and clubbers. And most clubbers simply don't want to hear records that are 6 months old - nevermind six YEARS.

 

I can't think of a single genre that took so long to kick off than trance, actually.

 

Or one that's remained as sadly stagnant..... I was playing a CD in work today and a section of the class... kiddie 'dance' fans... were all raving about it... "ah...wicked this one.... got this on such and such compilation", "they played this at Escape last month". The CD I was playing was from 1997!! What other dance genre can honestly say it's had tracks that old STILL being regurgitated for the masses?

 

The only good trance from the years mentioned was stuff like Olmec Heads, Jon OO Fleming, Transa (check out the FABULOUS 'Carla's Theme'), Vincent de Moor, Moonman etc.... stuff like Age of Love (however incredible it is), Lost Tribe (same), Energy 52 (same again)...in fact virtually ALL the fantastic Hooj Choons catalogue, was OLD by 1999..... and had been re-re-re-released (almost always with the first, original mixes still the best ones).

 

Rob - if you're a downloading man.... and you like euphoric trance stuff... check out these:

John OO Fleming - Alpha 5 (Olmec Heads Remix)

Transa - Carla's Theme

anything by Signum (good choice for that mix of Gamemaster, Scottyem - what a GREAT record that still is)

Cascade - Transend (Moonman mix)

and any of the fantastic Reactivate albums from the early to mid 90s.... i think you'll soil your pants over them to be honest. In a good way, like.... :P

 

but russ, the genre evolved. true trance was first called trance in the early 90's, (actually ive heard it being called 'progressive house', but my knowlege of these definitions aint firm..) but that style of (original) trance evolved away from its 'housey' roots. punk evolved, away from the shock, spitting, angry young man type theme to a more politically based music.... but its still punk... rock evolved from the pretty basic material early purple and sabbath concocted through to much heavier, meatier sounds. compare 'silver machine' or 'strange kinda woman' to 'ace of spades' or 'run to the hills'... ive never heard a rock fan claiming that 'real rock was early 70's', or a punk fan proclaiming 'real punk was 76/7' ... so imho late 90's trance IS trance, real trance at that.

 

yep it took time to take off.... so? so did punk, new romantics etc...ok not 6 odd years but id suggest that 'cafe del mar' and 'age of love' were way ahead of their time. by 1999 technology had come on along way, so new production techniques opened doors to new ways of making music in comparison to 1993. plus 'ibeefa' took off and the new trance sounds found a spiritual home.

 

yep, its the euphoric trance i like best, got 'the timelord' by signum, thanks for the tips, ill check them out m8 :)

sorry, i dont agree.

 

you are trying to limit trance , pigeonhole it, but in reality like all genres it aint black and white. NO genre is.... and there has always been a commercial end to every marketable genre thats come out. now the commercial trance/pop from 99 isnt real trance, like ive said its contemporary pop done in a contemporary style...in 99 that style was trance so there will be alot of poptrance tracks around. GOOD! because by hearing these it broadend its appeal to a wider audience.

 

just look at the charts from 78 or 79.... theres lots of punkpop , the adverts, rezillos, plastic bertrand hell even jilted john! :lol: .... not REAL punk but pop done in the contemporary fashion...

look at 82, 83,... culture club? modern romance? not REAL 'new romantic' but pop done in the contemporary fashion...

 

now i dont like culture club being refered to as 'new romantic' and more then alice dee jay 'better off alone' being called trance.... but they are both reprisenting the style fashion of their time and both in a pop way reflect that times mood.

 

so no, europop/trance aint real trance... it is pop, but it boarders trance. i have no problem with any genre having a wide spectrum.

but russ, the genre evolved. true trance was first called trance in the early 90's, (actually ive heard it being called 'progressive house', but my knowlege of these definitions aint firm..) but that style of (original) trance evolved away from its 'housey' roots. punk evolved, away from the shock, spitting, angry young man type theme to a more politically based music.... but its still punk... rock evolved from the pretty basic material early purple and sabbath concocted through to much heavier, meatier sounds. compare 'silver machine' or 'strange kinda woman' to 'ace of spades' or 'run to the hills'... ive never heard a rock fan claiming that 'real rock was early 70's', or a punk fan proclaiming 'real punk was 76/7' ... so imho late 90's trance IS trance, real trance at that.

 

yep it took time to take off.... so? so did punk, new romantics etc...ok not 6 odd years but id suggest that 'cafe del mar' and 'age of love' were way ahead of their time. by 1999 technology had come on along way, so new production techniques opened doors to new ways of making music in comparison to 1993. plus 'ibeefa' took off and the new trance sounds found a spiritual home.

 

yep, its the euphoric trance i like best, got 'the timelord' by signum, thanks for the tips, ill check them out m8 :)

 

Er, Iron Maiden, Motorhead...? That would be "Heavy Metal" then, eh, Rob....? :rolleyes: Different term for a different style and approach of music, I've never heard anyone refer to Maiden or Motorhead in any other term than 'Heavy Metal'... And, the stuff you're talking about as regards to Punk usually gets referred to "New Wave" or "Post-Punk"..... That commercial Alice Deejay sh!t masquerading as "Trance" is NOTHING OF THE SORT..... The real Trance in that era was the more Progressive sort coming out of the likes of Binary Finary, etc, which had bugger all in common with Alice Deejay, Sash and its ilk..... That's EUROBEAT dude.... Sorry, but if you can actually find me any meaningful difference between Alice Deejay and 2 Unlimited, then frankly I think you're on too many magic mushies.... :P

 

In other words - GET THE BLOODY TERMS RIGHT, PLEASE..... The term Nu Metal had to be invented because nobody accepted absolute crocks of sh!t like Linkin Park or Limp Bizkit as being Heavy Metal, it was just bad ©rapping mixed slightly inept guitar playing. That sort of thing once had a term - "Rap/Rock", which referred to decent bands like Red Hot Chili Peppers and Rage Against the Machine (who could actually rap and were damn good musicians).... In fact, no proper Metal fan that I ever talked to accepted 'Nu Metal'.. At all, even though, like myself, many of them liked RATM, Faith No More, etc.... And now all that sort of cr@p is being referred to as "Emo", the word "metal" dropped once and for all... And quite right too, because it wasn't Metal....

Sweet Like Chocolate :wub: I had that on tape :heehee:

Er, Iron Maiden, Motorhead...? That would be "Heavy Metal" then, eh, Rob....? :rolleyes: Different term for a different style and approach of music, I've never heard anyone refer to Maiden or Motorhead in any other term than 'Heavy Metal'... And, the stuff you're talking about as regards to Punk usually gets referred to "New Wave" or "Post-Punk"..... That commercial Alice Deejay sh!t masquerading as "Trance" is NOTHING OF THE SORT..... The real Trance in that era was the more Progressive sort coming out of the likes of Binary Finary, etc, which had bugger all in common with Alice Deejay, Sash and its ilk..... That's EUROBEAT dude.... Sorry, but if you can actually find me any meaningful difference between Alice Deejay and 2 Unlimited, then frankly I think you're on too many magic mushies.... :P

 

In other words - GET THE BLOODY TERMS RIGHT, PLEASE..... The term Nu Metal had to be invented because nobody accepted absolute crocks of sh!t like Linkin Park or Limp Bizkit as being Heavy Metal, it was just bad ©rapping mixed slightly inept guitar playing. That sort of thing once had a term - "Rap/Rock", which referred to decent bands like Red Hot Chili Peppers and Rage Against the Machine (who could actually rap and were damn good musicians).... In fact, no proper Metal fan that I ever talked to accepted 'Nu Metal'.. At all, even though, like myself, many of them liked RATM, Faith No More, etc.... And now all that sort of cr@p is being referred to as "Emo", the word "metal" dropped once and for all... And quite right too, because it wasn't Metal....

 

my point is that it evolved, it aint fixed, thats all... and that the current fashion always has had its singles chart 'pop in the flavour of ' ....