I saw the other day that there are something like 27 organisations to help criminals and prisoners and THREE to help VICTIMS, it should be the other way round, that is a fukkin pisstake

 

Thanks to the criminal justice system being hijacked by the do gooder lentil eating sandal wearing liberals and political correctness eating away at the system like a cancer the rights of victims are an afterthought to the wellbeing and human rights of the criminal

 

There should be more prisons built, much more emphasis put on the victims of crime as opposed to the criminal, more emphasis on punishment and less on jail comforts, much more hard work done by prisoners instead of tv and PS3

Why not sod off somewhere where they do this? They have some good weather in Iran.

It does not make someone a right winger / Daily Mail reader to say that people going to countries should respect/live by that country's laws and likewise face the consequences of their actions if they break the law of that country which 4kg of heroin clearly does

I was more referring to:

 

The outcry today from the bleeding heart liberal socialist politically correct do gooders today

No doubt the unelected liberal socialist do gooders who seem to run the bureaucracy of whichever government in power will dismiss them as "Daily Mail readers" like they always seem to do in cases like this.

 

Do gooder always seemed like a ridiculous epithet anyway. Says a lot about the conservative frame of mind.

I was more referring to:

Do gooder always seemed like a ridiculous epithet anyway. Says a lot about the conservative frame of mind.

And the opposite of do gooder? Evil doer surely. I know which I'd rather be.

Why not sod off somewhere where they do this? They have some good weather in Iran.

 

I think you are showing yourself up as one of those liberal do gooders who I am sick to death of.

 

Well sorry if I disagree with your principles, but when you've come home and found your property either taken or vandalised including the thief leaving his $h!t in your bed and room, to the extent that you no longer feel like living in that property that you've bought because you feel that your rights have been violated; have an elderly parent getting an unfair amount of harrassment from a drug addict/dealer including have an attempted crude firebomb put through his front door; and bricks through the window because some useless postman posted a package containing a load of illegal substances through his door and then my father had the misfortune of contacting the police (who have been close to useless I should add); or have a relative have cancelled an importance health care service to her mentally handicapped child to be told by a social worker that the local council government administration felt it was more important to spend the money on aftercare support for reforming criminals then I'll see if you hold the same principles.

 

This is why I take a "Daily Mail reader" approach to crime because I have been the victim of it and I have found out how the services work and that they are far more supportive of criminals and low life parasitical scum than supporting the victims of crime.

 

Hence I reserve the right to say I think your opinion is a load of liberal do gooder bolloxs whose views only help to excuse the low life scumbags who cause misery, as sadly I live in the real fukkin' world.

And the real world shows that when you take an approach which ignores any attempts at reforming the criminal into a useful member of society, reoffending rates and crime rates soar! At the moment we're caught in a pointless mid-point, because the government cannot try to actually take the Scandinavian approach which almost universally converts criminals into useful members of society who can hold down a job (remember, crime is a sign that a problem exists, yet what the Daily Mail preaches is curing the symptom but not the underlying illness!) because it would elicit tabloid uproar! At the moment we're at a point where the government can only tackle the problem half-heartedly without actually getting all that much out of it...

Why not sod off somewhere where they do this? They have some good weather in Iran.

 

You are the criminals friend, if I was a criminal I would want to know you in real life as you always seem to defend and stand up for criminals whereas I never see you standing up for the victims of crime

 

In Iran the buggers who go about stealing would have their hands cut off, if only that could happen here

And the real world shows that when you take an approach which ignores any attempts at reforming the criminal into a useful member of society, reoffending rates and crime rates soar! At the moment we're caught in a pointless mid-point, because the government cannot try to actually take the Scandinavian approach which almost universally converts criminals into useful members of society who can hold down a job (remember, crime is a sign that a problem exists, yet what the Daily Mail preaches is curing the symptom but not the underlying illness!) because it would elicit tabloid uproar! At the moment we're at a point where the government can only tackle the problem half-heartedly without actually getting all that much out of it...

 

I don't disagree that there needs to be an element of rehabillitation in prison but not at the expense of punishment, prison should be first and foremost about punishment with some education/training thrown in to help them on the outside but prison these days is like a holiday camp, 3 meals a day, television, ps3, pool tables etc, poor people who are not in prison often can't afford the kind of things that are available on tap in jail and that is wrong

 

Prisoners should be worked each day to the point of dropping, they should get food and bedding that fits in with the Geneva Convention and no more

 

Prison should be so hard and so tough that prisoners should be $h!t scared at the thought of going back to jail

You are the criminals friend, if I was a criminal I would want to know you in real life as you always seem to defend and stand up for criminals whereas I never see you standing up for the victims of crime

 

In Iran the buggers who go about stealing would have their hands cut off, if only that could happen here

And if they are found to have been wrongly convicted what then?

 

If you took the trouble to read what I said you will have noticed that I agree that not enough is done for victims. However, doing more for victims does not mean we should forget about rehabilitating criminals.

I think you are showing yourself up as one of those liberal do gooders who I am sick to death of.

 

Well sorry if I disagree with your principles, but when you've come home and found your property either taken or vandalised including the thief leaving his $h!t in your bed and room, to the extent that you no longer feel like living in that property that you've bought because you feel that your rights have been violated; have an elderly parent getting an unfair amount of harrassment from a drug addict/dealer including have an attempted crude firebomb put through his front door; and bricks through the window because some useless postman posted a package containing a load of illegal substances through his door and then my father had the misfortune of contacting the police (who have been close to useless I should add); or have a relative have cancelled an importance health care service to her mentally handicapped child to be told by a social worker that the local council government administration felt it was more important to spend the money on aftercare support for reforming criminals then I'll see if you hold the same principles.

 

This is why I take a "Daily Mail reader" approach to crime because I have been the victim of it and I have found out how the services work and that they are far more supportive of criminals and low life parasitical scum than supporting the victims of crime.

 

Hence I reserve the right to say I think your opinion is a load of liberal do gooder bolloxs whose views only help to excuse the low life scumbags who cause misery, as sadly I live in the real fukkin' world.

I have come home to find that my house has been burgled. Twice. If the burglars had been caught I would have wanted there to be an attempt to turn them into useful, law-abiding, tax-paying members of society. You seem to be happy to alienate them from society even more than they are already.

And if they are found to have been wrongly convicted what then?

 

If you took the trouble to read what I said you will have noticed that I agree that not enough is done for victims. However, doing more for victims does not mean we should forget about rehabilitating criminals.

 

Lets put things another way.

 

Who would you rather get into a boxing ring with: "Iron" Mike Tyson at his peak in the late 1980s or a seven stone weakling?

 

Or another way,

 

What is a greater incentive to not have a child out of marriage: receiving £150 in benefits plus free housing or receiving nothing?

 

In short it is the good old fashioned "carrot and stick" scenario.

 

The huge problem with the British liberal do gooder society and its policies and attitudes to crime is that there are far too much emphasis on the carrot and not enough on the stick.

 

For the record I think the US judicial system is far better and effective than the UK's as it uses much more emphasis on the stick and much less on the carrott.

For the record I think the US judicial system is far better and effective than the UK's as it uses much more emphasis on the stick and much less on the carrott.

:mellow:

 

And is infamous throughout the world for its huge crime and reoffending rates. Why is it so hard for people to learn from one of the few systems that has actually seemed to work?

 

Probably because it doesn't satisfy the atavistic lust for retribution...

:mellow:

 

And is infamous throughout the world for its huge crime and reoffending rates. Why is it so hard for people to learn from one of the few systems that has actually seemed to work?

 

Probably because it doesn't satisfy the atavistic lust for retribution...

 

What is the punishment though in getting up in the morning, having eggs and bacon, lounging around in the cell till lunchtime, having a nice cooked lunch, lounging around playing pool, watching tv, playing Playstation games, having a nice hot cooked dinner then lounging around watching more tv till lights out ?

 

Sounds like a nice vacation all need is decent weather and it could be Butlins or Pontins :rolleyes:

 

With such a cushy life on the inside often way better than their victims on the outside are having where is the punishment ? where is the incentive not to reoffend ?

 

 

What really amuses (well possibly the wrong word but still) me about this case is how everyone is all 'HE SHOULD BE BOUGHT BACK FOR BRITAIN FOR TRIAL, THIS IS DISGUSTING', when if this was the other way round, the Daily Mail would be spouting 'THESE FOREIGNERS COMING TO OUR COUNTRY SHOULD ABIDE BY OUR LAWS, THEYRE IN ENGLAND, THEY ABIDE BY ENGLISH LAW'. Ummm, it doesn't work both ways.

 

Personally, I'm of the view that if you're in China you're under Chinese law same as we'd expect anybody in this country to follow British Law and any crimes commited under a countries law should be triable by them and to their punishment system. Whether or not the death penalty is an acceptable punishment is besides the point and a completley seperate debate.

I pesonally think the death penalty is a rather harsh sentance for drug smuggling. A bloody long jail sentance i'm fine with, and i think there should be a minimum of at least 12.5years rising to 15 or 20 depending on the quantity your are bringing in. But the death penalty. I would only dish that out to people who do not deserve to live, Mass murderers, people convicted of war crimes [like mass genocide] etc. I think they should spend at least 20years in prison before being excecuted in varying manors. Lethal injection to the killers who showed some form of mercy, and a long and very painful death to those convicted of sever war crimes. They'd have to be killed in somewhere like Gitmo away from the namby pamby pc brigade. [if ever there was a group of people suitible for mass hangings......]

What is the punishment though in getting up in the morning, having eggs and bacon, lounging around in the cell till lunchtime, having a nice cooked lunch, lounging around playing pool, watching tv, playing Playstation games, having a nice hot cooked dinner then lounging around watching more tv till lights out ?

 

Sounds like a nice vacation all need is decent weather and it could be Butlins or Pontins :rolleyes:

 

With such a cushy life on the inside often way better than their victims on the outside are having where is the punishment ? where is the incentive not to reoffend ?

That is a ridiculous misinterpretation of the prison system and you probably know it ;) It might be that way in the most minimal security prisons, but as far as I know most of the prisons in this country which the majority of criminals would go to are ugly, dank Victorian buildings where the prisoners are confined to their cells for most of the day. I certainly don't know where this myth where all criminals get Playstation games and just lay about comes from :/

 

And you speak of cooked dinners as if they're a luxury! I doubt the food quality is all that good...

I pesonally think the death penalty is a rather harsh sentance for drug smuggling. A bloody long jail sentance i'm fine with, and i think there should be a minimum of at least 12.5years rising to 15 or 20 depending on the quantity your are bringing in. But the death penalty. I would only dish that out to people who do not deserve to live, Mass murderers, people convicted of war crimes [like mass genocide] etc. I think they should spend at least 20years in prison before being excecuted in varying manors. Lethal injection to the killers who showed some form of mercy, and a long and very painful death to those convicted of sever war crimes. They'd have to be killed in somewhere like Gitmo away from the namby pamby pc brigade. [if ever there was a group of people suitible for mass hangings......]

 

Shaikh bought in enough heroin to kill 26,800 people

 

If he had not been arrested he would have killed more people and destroyed more lives than 13 lots of 9/11

 

 

That is a ridiculous misinterpretation of the prison system and you probably know it ;) It might be that way in the most minimal security prisons, but as far as I know most of the prisons in this country which the majority of criminals would go to are ugly, dank Victorian buildings where the prisoners are confined to their cells for most of the day. I certainly don't know where this myth where all criminals get Playstation games and just lay about comes from :/

 

And you speak of cooked dinners as if they're a luxury! I doubt the food quality is all that good...

No doubt from north of hadrians wall.

 

The scottish aproach to prisons is stupidly soft. There are convicted rapists and murders being kept at Castle Huntly in Dundee, which is an open prison who lose more prisioners a day than Heathrow has passengers [slight exageration, the point still stands] Dundee is bad enough without the truly evil joining the scum.

 

Per head, prisioners have more spent on them on food than a patient in an NHS hospital.

What is the punishment though in getting up in the morning, having eggs and bacon, lounging around in the cell till lunchtime, having a nice cooked lunch, lounging around playing pool, watching tv, playing Playstation games, having a nice hot cooked dinner then lounging around watching more tv till lights out ?

 

Sounds like a nice vacation all need is decent weather and it could be Butlins or Pontins :rolleyes:

 

With such a cushy life on the inside often way better than their victims on the outside are having where is the punishment ? where is the incentive not to reoffend ?

If that's what you think why not have your next holiday there?

Shaikh bought in enough heroin to kill 26,800 people

 

If he had not been arrested he would have killed more people and destroyed more lives than 13 lots of 9/11

I have no hassles with him being punished for drug smuggling, but i personally don't believe it is a offense worthy of the death penalty. The suppliers and dealers are just as bad if not worse than the trafficers. While Shaikh may have brought the pure stuff in, what the nasty scum he gives it to adds to it on its way down the supply chain to the end user does just as much harm if not more harm to the end user than the actual drug itself. Rat Poison and the likes wasn't designed for human consumption.

 

If you're going to excecute trafficers, you need to be giving the dealers and their suppliers a punishment just as harsh.

 

I know that without the trafficers there would be no drugs, but without the suppliers and dealers there'd be no demand.

Not that old bollocks again. If Britain is so soft, why do we have the largest prison population per head of population in western Europe? Larger even than countries like Turkey? It's probably true that more should be done to help victims of crime but that doesn't have to mean harsher punishment for criminals.

 

maybe we have a much larger percentage of miscreants!

 

IF this guy WAS mentally ill and wasnt entirely responsible for his actions then he should not have been executed. he was by all accounts being taken advantage off, abused even.

 

however, the chinese authorities said they had no evidence of his illness after 2 years! without clear evidence then they acted as they saw fit.