Posted February 2, 201015 yr Pope criticised for attack on UK Equality Bill Source - BBC News 2/2/10 The Pope has faced a backlash after urging Catholic bishops in England and Wales to fight the UK's Equality Bill with "missionary zeal". Pope Benedict XVI said the bill - which could end the right of the Church to ban gay people from senior positions - "violates natural law". But gay and human rights campaigners condemned his comments, and Labour MEP Stephen Hughes said he was "appalled". Gordon Brown said he respected the Pope but commenting would be inappropriate. The prime minister's official spokesman said Mr Brown had "enormous admiration and respect" for the pontiff, who will this year make the first papal visit to the UK since 1982. The Pope told the Catholic bishops of England and Wales gathered in Rome: "Your country is well-known for its firm commitment to equality of opportunity for all members of society. "Yet, as you have rightly pointed out, the effect of some of the legislation designed to achieve this goal has been to impose unjust limitations on the freedom of religious communities to act in accordance with their beliefs. "In some respects it actually violates the natural law upon which the equality of all human beings is grounded and by which it is guaranteed." Jonathan Finney, from gay rights group Stonewall, told BBC Radio 5 live: "People should not be denied access to services and employment purely because they are gay. "We've got to guard against sweeping exemptions seeming to protect one person's freedom, which actually really impact on other people's." He added: "What you can't start doing is saying that religious people have hard-won freedoms, we'll now restrict those, we won't give them to gay people, we won't give them to women." 'Unjust limitations' Mr Hughes, speaking in Rome, said: "As a Catholic, I am appalled by the attitude of the Pope. Religious leaders should be trying to eradicate inequality, not perpetuate it." He said the pontiff should ensure existing EU legislation was applied in the Vatican, rather than attacking equality in the UK. The British Humanist Association said his "uninformed" and "homophobic" remarks came as no surprise and it would oppose his visit later in the year. Head of public affairs, Naomi Phillips, said the Pope was seeking to discriminate against others in employment, services and education "unfettered by the laws that everyone else in society must abide by and respect". But the head of the Catholic Church in England and Wales, Archbishop Vincent Nichols, said the Pope's words would resonate with many people who felt "uneasy" about the consequences of recent legislation. He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme religious belief and practice had been driven into "the sphere of the private only", and the Pope wanted to express the "unjust limitations on the freedom of religious communities". The Archbishop said: "He's [the Pope] not getting engaged in party politics... but he wants his reasoned voice - formed by the treasures of the Christian heritage which is deeply embedded in our culture - to be heard." Religious leaders have voiced concern that the Equality Bill could force churches to employ sexually active gay people and transsexuals when hiring staff other than priests or ministers. The National Secular Society said it would mount a protest campaign made up of gay groups, victims of clerical abuse, feminists, family planning organisations and groups supporting abortion choice, among others. What the Pope is doing is trying to encourage the bishops to keep their resolve in very fluctuating morals in cultures and societies today Human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell said the Pope's comments were a "coded attack on the legal rights granted to women and gay people". "His ill-informed claim that our equality laws undermine religious freedom suggests that he supports the right of churches to discriminate in accordance with their religious ethos," he said. "He seems to be defending discrimination by religious institutions and demanding that they should be above the law." But Catholic MP Ann Widdecombe said: "This isn't a debate about homosexuality, this is a debate about religious freedom." She told BBC Radio 5 live: "If a faith teaches, as major faiths do, that something is wrong, then quite clearly you cannot have somebody who believes that it's right actually occupying a very senior position. "That we have accepted as natural justice for a very long time." "What the Pope is doing is trying to encourage the bishops to keep their resolve in very fluctuating morals in cultures and societies today." Liberal Democrat MP Evan Harris, who sits on the Joint Committee on Human Rights, said all Britons - including Catholics and gay people - were protected by UK equality laws. "Religious people can be reassured that there is nothing in the Equality Bill which imposes gay priests on religions, but it does protect the general workforce from prejudiced employers," he said. A spokesman for the Government Equalities Office said: "The Pope acknowledges our country's firm commitment to equality for all members of society. "We believe everyone should have a fair chance in life and not be discriminated against. The Equality Bill will make Britain a fairer and more equal place." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Right... So, if Islamic groups are to be prevented from marching in the UK to protest against the conflict in Afghanistan and Iraq (and then later outlawed) on the grounds that their overall mission statement is against our society's tolerant values and would likely cause offence to large sections of the public, should the Pope be allowed to come to UK on a State visit to actually preach Homophobia and discrimination openly....? In fact, should we not also outlaw the Institution of the Catholic Church on the grounds that they are "out of step" with Modern Britain, and the fact that the church defends the actions of "Pro-Life Campaigners" who kill doctors and blow up clinics...? Hmmm, isn't that, well, TERRORISM folks...???? Oh, and what about the totally hypocritical position of the church in general... Oh, GOD FORBID that a gay man, or a *gasp* a WOMAN takes up the cloth, but hey, they dont seem to have a problem with P@edos in the Pulpit do they....? <_< The Catholic Church - just as bad as The fukkin' Jihadis.....? Discuss..... -_-
February 2, 201015 yr firstly, the ONLY ban on any march was by an extreme muslim group wanting to stick two fingers up at the british... <_< , so your point suggesting wrongly that we on here dont allow legitimate, ordinary muslim groups to protest is WRONG. secondly... nope of COURSE the effing pope shouldnt be allowed to preach homophobia... im dead against it. however, the catholic church is much stronger, deeply entrenched in our society then islam, i think itll be much harder to ban this.
February 2, 201015 yr I know there is a chapter in the Bible about Sodom and Gomorrah etc which is the backbone for church-on-homosexual discrimination. But that story may be true but how God's opinion of it was written was in the early Old Testament times when God was still strict/building the world. (Sorry to bore the Athiests) There's no law in the ten commandments referring to being homosexual as wrong, and I highly doubt that homosexuality is something in the mind either. I truly believe it's just how that person is, and God made every person in a specific way with a specific purpose including homosexuals. And he accepts and loves everyone, so the story goes on. I just think the homophobia is just another one of human insecurities, as with phobias in general. And God's personality represented in the rest of the Bible as an accepting forgiving etc God is definitely a more reliable source than one Sodom and Gommorah story written way back when. The bible was hardly sexist and racist so surely one's sexuality choice is just part of one of those categories and not the demonic act the majority of these church types are making it out to be. .
February 2, 201015 yr Pope criticised for attack on UK Equality Bill Source - BBC News 2/2/10 The Pope has faced a backlash after urging Catholic bishops in England and Wales to fight the UK's Equality Bill with "missionary zeal". Pope Benedict XVI said the bill - which could end the right of the Church to ban gay people from senior positions - "violates natural law". But gay and human rights campaigners condemned his comments, and Labour MEP Stephen Hughes said he was "appalled". Gordon Brown said he respected the Pope but commenting would be inappropriate. The prime minister's official spokesman said Mr Brown had "enormous admiration and respect" for the pontiff, who will this year make the first papal visit to the UK since 1982. The Pope told the Catholic bishops of England and Wales gathered in Rome: "Your country is well-known for its firm commitment to equality of opportunity for all members of society. "Yet, as you have rightly pointed out, the effect of some of the legislation designed to achieve this goal has been to impose unjust limitations on the freedom of religious communities to act in accordance with their beliefs. "In some respects it actually violates the natural law upon which the equality of all human beings is grounded and by which it is guaranteed." Jonathan Finney, from gay rights group Stonewall, told BBC Radio 5 live: "People should not be denied access to services and employment purely because they are gay. "We've got to guard against sweeping exemptions seeming to protect one person's freedom, which actually really impact on other people's." He added: "What you can't start doing is saying that religious people have hard-won freedoms, we'll now restrict those, we won't give them to gay people, we won't give them to women." 'Unjust limitations' Mr Hughes, speaking in Rome, said: "As a Catholic, I am appalled by the attitude of the Pope. Religious leaders should be trying to eradicate inequality, not perpetuate it." He said the pontiff should ensure existing EU legislation was applied in the Vatican, rather than attacking equality in the UK. The British Humanist Association said his "uninformed" and "homophobic" remarks came as no surprise and it would oppose his visit later in the year. Head of public affairs, Naomi Phillips, said the Pope was seeking to discriminate against others in employment, services and education "unfettered by the laws that everyone else in society must abide by and respect". But the head of the Catholic Church in England and Wales, Archbishop Vincent Nichols, said the Pope's words would resonate with many people who felt "uneasy" about the consequences of recent legislation. He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme religious belief and practice had been driven into "the sphere of the private only", and the Pope wanted to express the "unjust limitations on the freedom of religious communities". The Archbishop said: "He's [the Pope] not getting engaged in party politics... but he wants his reasoned voice - formed by the treasures of the Christian heritage which is deeply embedded in our culture - to be heard." Religious leaders have voiced concern that the Equality Bill could force churches to employ sexually active gay people and transsexuals when hiring staff other than priests or ministers. The National Secular Society said it would mount a protest campaign made up of gay groups, victims of clerical abuse, feminists, family planning organisations and groups supporting abortion choice, among others. What the Pope is doing is trying to encourage the bishops to keep their resolve in very fluctuating morals in cultures and societies today Human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell said the Pope's comments were a "coded attack on the legal rights granted to women and gay people". "His ill-informed claim that our equality laws undermine religious freedom suggests that he supports the right of churches to discriminate in accordance with their religious ethos," he said. "He seems to be defending discrimination by religious institutions and demanding that they should be above the law." But Catholic MP Ann Widdecombe said: "This isn't a debate about homosexuality, this is a debate about religious freedom." She told BBC Radio 5 live: "If a faith teaches, as major faiths do, that something is wrong, then quite clearly you cannot have somebody who believes that it's right actually occupying a very senior position. "That we have accepted as natural justice for a very long time." "What the Pope is doing is trying to encourage the bishops to keep their resolve in very fluctuating morals in cultures and societies today." Liberal Democrat MP Evan Harris, who sits on the Joint Committee on Human Rights, said all Britons - including Catholics and gay people - were protected by UK equality laws. "Religious people can be reassured that there is nothing in the Equality Bill which imposes gay priests on religions, but it does protect the general workforce from prejudiced employers," he said. A spokesman for the Government Equalities Office said: "The Pope acknowledges our country's firm commitment to equality for all members of society. "We believe everyone should have a fair chance in life and not be discriminated against. The Equality Bill will make Britain a fairer and more equal place." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Right... So, if Islamic groups are to be prevented from marching in the UK to protest against the conflict in Afghanistan and Iraq (and then later outlawed) on the grounds that their overall mission statement is against our society's tolerant values and would likely cause offence to large sections of the public, should the Pope be allowed to come to UK on a State visit to actually preach Homophobia and discrimination openly....? In fact, should we not also outlaw the Institution of the Catholic Church on the grounds that they are "out of step" with Modern Britain, and the fact that the church defends the actions of "Pro-Life Campaigners" who kill doctors and blow up clinics...? Hmmm, isn't that, well, TERRORISM folks...???? Oh, and what about the totally hypocritical position of the church in general... Oh, GOD FORBID that a gay man, or a *gasp* a WOMAN takes up the cloth, but hey, they dont seem to have a problem with P@edos in the Pulpit do they....? <_< The Catholic Church - just as bad as The fukkin' Jihadis.....? Discuss..... -_- Catholic church is a vile religion, every bit as backward as islam almost Causing over population through refusal to allow contraception Causing AIDS in Africa due to refusal to allow contraception Covering up child abuse and p**** priests The Vatican stealing jewish gold in WW2 The vatican being used for money laundering Stone age views on women and gays
February 2, 201015 yr Catholic church is a vile religion, every bit as backward as islam almost Causing over population through refusal to allow contraception Causing AIDS in Africa due to refusal to allow contraception Covering up child abuse and p**** priests The Vatican stealing jewish gold in WW2 The vatican being used for money laundering Stone age views on women and gays Agree with all that B.A. If I had my way I'd never enter a Catholic Church again. They try to ram religion down your throats too. Unfortunately I've to go to hour-long meetings for 10 Thursdays starting this week as my daughter wants her Confirmation. Parents must attend or she can't have it and I think it's ridiculous when she's 14 and a young adult. :angry: It's hypocrisy too when I haven't been to a Sunday mass for 3 years. :rolleyes: If the Catholic Church was out-lawed tomorrow I'd be happy. Our priest's a total tosser. :angry: Strangely though, they say church attendance has been falling for years but ours is packed at every mass every Sunday with people standing too. Edited February 2, 201015 yr by Victor Meldrew
February 2, 201015 yr Catholic church is a vile religion, every bit as backward as islam almost Causing over population through refusal to allow contraception Causing AIDS in Africa due to refusal to allow contraception Covering up child abuse and p**** priests The Vatican stealing jewish gold in WW2 The vatican being used for money laundering Stone age views on women and gays Agreed on all counts.
February 3, 201015 yr I know there is a chapter in the Bible about Sodom and Gomorrah etc which is the backbone for church-on-homosexual discrimination. But that story may be true but how God's opinion of it was written was in the early Old Testament times when God was still strict/building the world. (Sorry to bore the Athiests) There's no law in the ten commandments referring to being homosexual as wrong, and I highly doubt that homosexuality is something in the mind either. I truly believe it's just how that person is, and God made every person in a specific way with a specific purpose including homosexuals. And he accepts and loves everyone, so the story goes on. I just think the homophobia is just another one of human insecurities, as with phobias in general. And God's personality represented in the rest of the Bible as an accepting forgiving etc God is definitely a more reliable source than one Sodom and Gommorah story written way back when. The bible was hardly sexist and racist so surely one's sexuality choice is just part of one of those categories and not the demonic act the majority of these church types are making it out to be. . god as depicted on most of the old testiment is anything but one of love and forgiveness. hes a vile uncaring entity who would sooner wipe out nations in agony then use his oh so loving powers to show them a better way. and before you point to 'jesus' being sacrificed for our sins .... where is he now? oh yeah, back home with daddy... so in fact there was NO sacrifice! :lol:
February 3, 201015 yr Author I know there is a chapter in the Bible about Sodom and Gomorrah etc which is the backbone for church-on-homosexual discrimination. But that story may be true but how God's opinion of it was written was in the early Old Testament times when God was still strict/building the world. (Sorry to bore the Athiests) There's also passages in the bible which say that anyone who works on the "Sabbath" should be put do death, which I've posted up here in previous threads... So, should we then kill people who open up their shops on a Saturday or Sunday (depending on whether you're following the Jewish or Christian Sabbath....)??? Makes about as much sense as having a downer on gay people if you ask me..... :rolleyes:
February 3, 201015 yr Author secondly... nope of COURSE the effing pope shouldnt be allowed to preach homophobia... im dead against it. however, the catholic church is much stronger, deeply entrenched in our society then islam, i think itll be much harder to ban this. So, you're saying that you would ideally like to see the Pope banned from State visits then...? I find it incredible that Gordon Brown expresses his "admiration" for the Pope, when it's clear to me the man's as much of a religious extremist as Mr Choudury of Islam4UK....
February 3, 201015 yr The Bible is one whole progression though, you can't make a point of flaw regarding a verse in the Old Testament when what the verse says changes in the New Testament. God's personality also progressed and the last few books in the Bible are the most accurate at showing this because as the world modernised so did God, he knew he could only do that much to protect the world and he couldn't succeed but the Holy Spirit did and with that God can forgive our sins without having to punish us as in the Old Testament - this is exactly why I say God is not against homosexuality. Catholic churches are extremely old-fashioned and hypocritical, I go to a modern-world church where there are plenty of homosexual people. . We're all made in a specific way, and if that is gay then that is what God wants. Homosexuality is hardly Satanism, these preachers as in the article just embarrass religion IMO. They aren't supposed to be looking for fault with man anyway, the church is meant to be the complete opposite. . Unity and acceptance.
February 3, 201015 yr So, you're saying that you would ideally like to see the Pope banned from State visits then...? I find it incredible that Gordon Brown expresses his "admiration" for the Pope, when it's clear to me the man's as much of a religious extremist as Mr Choudury of Islam4UK.... yes.... if he was coming here to preach that homosexuality is evil... if he was coming here for other reasons then no. just because he doesnt agree with homosexuality doesnt make him a target for banning ..... otherwise all muslims would be banned too! oh and certain christians/jews/whoever The Bible is one whole progression though, you can't make a point of flaw regarding a verse in the Old Testament when what the verse says changes in the New Testament. God's personality also progressed and the last few books in the Bible are the most accurate at showing this because as the world modernised so did God, he knew he could only do that much to protect the world and he couldn't succeed but the Holy Spirit did and with that God can forgive our sins without having to punish us as in the Old Testament - this is exactly why I say God is not against homosexuality. but god supposed to be constant .... anyway, whatever 'god' is, it aint a fathomable concept to us mere humans. there FAR more going on in the universe, life, physics, chemistry, quantum physics, we are only begining to understand the small part of it. so to catagorise the concept of a god ... no matter which one (and just whos god is the 'real' one anyway?) in such basic terms is a flawed concept.
February 4, 201015 yr After the great shoe-ing he got over Christmas, I'm more than happy to allow the old Nazi to visit this country - after all, if it's a joyous, pleasant welcome he's expecting, I'll be only too proud to be one of the ones spoiling his day. And expect HUGE protests if he does come here. Eggs Benedict, anyone?
February 4, 201015 yr I would happily go to such a protest Me too and I'm a Catholic (lapsed, very lapsed)
February 4, 201015 yr Author After the great shoe-ing he got over Christmas, I'm more than happy to allow the old Nazi to visit this country - after all, if it's a joyous, pleasant welcome he's expecting, I'll be only too proud to be one of the ones spoiling his day. And expect HUGE protests if he does come here. Eggs Benedict, anyone? I'll join you for that one mate..... Speaking as someone who knows more about the fukkin' Catholic church than he wishes to, I want to give that c/unt a good pasteing for his bloody Church blighting my childhood with its propaganda...... <_<
February 4, 201015 yr Considering the Catholic church is dead set against Homosexuality, how come it stands by the kiddy fiddling priests who in 90% [or so] of the reported cases of child abuse have been doing the alter boy. Male priest + Alter boy = Homosexual no? The man's a hypocritical prick. I do not agree with the Catholic church's stance on many things. I for one am pro-choice, i believe that your sexuality is not something you chose, nor with god 'smite' you for not being hetro.
February 4, 201015 yr Author Male priest + Alter boy = Homosexual no? No, it actually = Paedophile mate..... BIG difference.....
February 4, 201015 yr No, it actually = Paedophile mate..... BIG difference..... I know that, i thought i'd glide over that overwhelmingly obvious point to back up my point that their view on Homosexuality is wrong.
February 4, 201015 yr The pope's visit sounds like a good excuse for a BJ get together we can all abuse and throw stuff at the c**t
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