I don't really buy too much into this theory that social night-life has declined at a rapid rate as a direct result of the smoking ban. I've not noticed any difference.

 

me neither, and nor has clare (who part time works in bars).

 

as for dublin..... russ!!! we were there 4 weeks ago and the pubs were packed, the nightlife there appeared to be alive and kicking with no detrimental effects of any smoking ban.

 

it simply isnt true that the ban is killing pubs, the decline started long before the ban and has more to do with changing social issues... less people smoking, more people staying in, changing ways of spending leisure time, cheap plonk from supermarkets.

Dundee's completely mobbed on at least 3 nights of the week. [Wed - Student Night, Fri & Sat]

 

The union is full most nights of the week and the clubs/pubs are pretty busy on tues and thurs as well.

 

 

You notice a dip in trade over the summer when the uni's are off, but the Cities population tends to drop by a good 10,000 during that time :heehee:

Why ban smoking in cars ? Ban it everywhere. I can't stand walking on the street and inhaling people's smoke. Many are smokers, but do we deserve to be a non-smokers smokers...

it simply isnt true that the ban is killing pubs, the decline started long before the ban and has more to do with changing social issues... less people smoking, more people staying in, changing ways of spending leisure time, cheap plonk from supermarkets.

 

perhaps you should have a sit down chat with a few publicans then, Rob... I have a few as mates... and they're all in absolute agreement that the smoking ban is the prime reason the licensing trade is in freefall.

 

As for the 'drink's cheap in supermarkets' argument - null and void - drink has ALWAYS been cheap and 'on offer' in supermarkets - with very little impact on social drinking.

 

The Tories promised before the election they'd repeal the ban - and do what Labour should have done - the sensible option - given the landlords the choice of whether they ran a smoking or non-smoking venue. Any news on this or have they conveniently forgotten about it?

Why ban smoking in cars ? Ban it everywhere. I can't stand walking on the street and inhaling people's smoke. Many are smokers, but do we deserve to be a non-smokers smokers...

How can you inhale someone elses smoke out on the streets? It just goes up off into the air? :lol: Unless I guess that you directly walk next to someone who is smoking - therefore move to the other side of the road.

perhaps you should have a sit down chat with a few publicans then, Rob... I have a few as mates... and they're all in absolute agreement that the smoking ban is the prime reason the licensing trade is in freefall.

 

As for the 'drink's cheap in supermarkets' argument - null and void - drink has ALWAYS been cheap and 'on offer' in supermarkets - with very little impact on social drinking.

 

The Tories promised before the election they'd repeal the ban - and do what Labour should have done - the sensible option - given the landlords the choice of whether they ran a smoking or non-smoking venue. Any news on this or have they conveniently forgotten about it?

 

i too know people, clare works in the trade, there is NO one reason why... its down to social changes, changes in attitudes towards our leisure time. i dont agree that theres always been cheap booze on offer... no there hasnt! i remember the 60's and 70's m8... I couldnt get it. todays supermarkets are making it FAR more available. the smoking ban here has made very little impact, the only ones mardy enough to stop going out for a pint cos they cant sit inside to smoke and drink are the idiots who would sooner cut off their nose to spite their face.

How can you inhale someone elses smoke out on the streets? It just goes up off into the air? :lol: Unless I guess that you directly walk next to someone who is smoking - therefore move to the other side of the road.

 

eh?.... you certainly CAN get a facefull of fag smoke outdoors... however, i dont think it should be banned outdoors for health reasons.

i too know people, clare works in the trade, there is NO one reason why... its down to social changes, changes in attitudes towards our leisure time. i dont agree that theres always been cheap booze on offer... no there hasnt! i remember the 60's and 70's m8... I couldnt get it. todays supermarkets are making it FAR more available. the smoking ban here has made very little impact, the only ones mardy enough to stop going out for a pint cos they cant sit inside to smoke and drink are the idiots who would sooner cut off their nose to spite their face.

 

Supermarkets have had cheaper booze for as long as I can remember mate... And if you go across the puddle to France, it's significantly cheaper than our supermarkets... Germany doesn't even enforce its patchwork of smoking bans to any degree at all, same for France, where many club/pub owners just look the other way and there is a low-level of enforcement.... I'd be interested to compare the pub/club trade in France or Germany post-ban to that of the UK.... Let's not kid ourselves here that this "smoking ban" has been embraced Europe-wide.. It hasn't.... Britain is probably the most draconian enforcer of the law.....

Supermarkets have had cheaper booze for as long as I can remember mate...

 

remind me again, how OLD are you?....:P

 

whilst they have had cheaper booze, its reletively cheaper now then at any time before ...

 

its social changes, its the future, we no longer live in the past and liesure time activities have changed. theres more tv channels, especially for sport, id suggest that wall to wall footy on a hd tv and cheap booze has more to do with general pub decline then a smoking ban. i noticed NO adverse affects to the few pubs i frequent for my quizes. i know of not 1 single person in real life or my many aquaintences on the internet (in metal detecting, i know literally over a hundered 'blokes') who actually stopped going to a pub because they werent allowed to smoke indoors.

i too know people, clare works in the trade, there is NO one reason why... its down to social changes, changes in attitudes towards our leisure time. i dont agree that theres always been cheap booze on offer... no there hasnt! i remember the 60's and 70's m8... I couldnt get it. todays supermarkets are making it FAR more available. the smoking ban here has made very little impact, the only ones mardy enough to stop going out for a pint cos they cant sit inside to smoke and drink are the idiots who would sooner cut off their nose to spite their face.

 

it's not being 'mardy' or 'idiotic' to say, ok, the one thing I like with a pint is a ciggie - in fact, I wouldn't dream of drinking a pint minus a ciggie - so, if one comes minus the other - forget it, I'd rather stay in - where I can do exaclt as I please - and invite whoever I want along to do as they please, too.

 

And as Scott rightly says, as far back as I can remember we've had ludicrously cheap alcohol on offer in all the supermarket chains - booze offers are hardly something that have come into the domain since the smoking ban.

 

This ban doesn't only affect smokers, you see, Rob - it affects their friends, too. Out of my wide, varied social group, all of whom loved the pub, all-dayers, occasional visits or every weekend..... the ban has had a colossal effect - maybe a good thing.... as literally nobody I know does any of the aforementioned anymore. Who in their right minds go out in Britain after dark to stand in a street by a bin for a fag? I mean, honestly. We don't live in a sunny clime where outdoors is preferable to indoors - we live in sub-zero temperatures most of the year where staying outdoors half the night, or more, is simply out of the question.

 

It's all very well being smug and pompous about how terribly awful smoking is and how pubs are so much nicer since the ban (yes, I love the smell of stale beer, Pledge and B.O. as much as the next man), but personally, I'd much rather see a crowded, smoky bar than an empty, devoid-of-anything pub on its last legs.

 

In this area alone, where there were 38 pubs in a 10 mile radius - since the ban...... there are now, in 3 years...... 18 left. That's 20 businesses and 100s of jobs down the pan and communities left with no pubs whatsoever in many villages.

 

But that's down to 'changing leisure activities'isn't it? Not!

eh?.... you certainly CAN get a facefull of fag smoke outdoors... however, i dont think it should be banned outdoors for health reasons.

Yeah, but only if you are purposely near the person.

Yeah, but only if you are purposely near the person.

 

quite....and don't you think smokers have been staklked enough in 'modern' Britain? ;)

quite....and don't you think smokers have been staklked enough in 'modern' Britain? ;)

There's no need for it imo. If I'm about to spark up near someone that doesn't smoke, I ask them first If they'd like me to move away and if they say no, I'm just like, "I won't mind if you want me to" just to double check. It's not like I'm being selfish, and I think that applies for most people who smoke.

it's not being 'mardy' or 'idiotic' to say, ok, the one thing I like with a pint is a ciggie - in fact, I wouldn't dream of drinking a pint minus a ciggie - so, if one comes minus the other - forget it, I'd rather stay in - where I can do exaclt as I please - and invite whoever I want along to do as they please, too.

 

And as Scott rightly says, as far back as I can remember we've had ludicrously cheap alcohol on offer in all the supermarket chains - booze offers are hardly something that have come into the domain since the smoking ban.

 

This ban doesn't only affect smokers, you see, Rob - it affects their friends, too. Out of my wide, varied social group, all of whom loved the pub, all-dayers, occasional visits or every weekend..... the ban has had a colossal effect - maybe a good thing.... as literally nobody I know does any of the aforementioned anymore. Who in their right minds go out in Britain after dark to stand in a street by a bin for a fag? I mean, honestly. We don't live in a sunny clime where outdoors is preferable to indoors - we live in sub-zero temperatures most of the year where staying outdoors half the night, or more, is simply out of the question.

 

It's all very well being smug and pompous about how terribly awful smoking is and how pubs are so much nicer since the ban (yes, I love the smell of stale beer, Pledge and B.O. as much as the next man), but personally, I'd much rather see a crowded, smoky bar than an empty, devoid-of-anything pub on its last legs.

 

In this area alone, where there were 38 pubs in a 10 mile radius - since the ban...... there are now, in 3 years...... 18 left. That's 20 businesses and 100s of jobs down the pan and communities left with no pubs whatsoever in many villages.

 

But that's down to 'changing leisure activities'isn't it? Not!

 

i reckon we will just have to agree to disagree... as a smoker youd like to use the 'evidence' that the ban has shut down pubs... whilst it possibly hasnt helped, to cite the ban as the one and only reason is plain daft. pubs were closing before the ban... it isnt an occurace that became manifest after the ban. so believe what you want, and ill do the same! :)

The decline in the pub trade started long before the smoking ban. Many people - such as myself - simply got out of the habit of going to the pub because we couldn't stand the smoke. Now it's hard to get back in to the habit, particularly as so many pubs are now trendy bars aimed at teenagers serving horrible fizzy "beer".

Rob..the publicans I know, all of them bar one is a non-smoker.... and yes, the licensing trade was in trouble before the ban - but to say the smoking ban has had zero effect on punter numbers in these establishments.... well, the colosal rise in the places going under these past few years is surely some indication....

 

And Suedehead - so when you first ever went to a pub, it would obviously have been 'full of smoke'.... you continued to goregardless.... so what made you suddenly 'get out of the habit' of going - was there a rapid rise in the number of smokers in these establishments?

I'm no expert but I have been known to socialise and I do work in a pub and I can't say I ever hear people moaning that they can't smoke. The majority of people seem happy to go outside however regularly they need a cigarette and as a social smoker myself I'm always happy to do that, in fact I consider it a good way to meet people when you're forced to go outside and mingle amongst other smokers rather than sitting at your table with your group of friends. Being the age I am I don't really recall how things were prior to the smoking ban but I certainly don't take issue with it.

 

As for smoking in cars I can't say I have an opinion. It's not the sort of thing I'd usually do. Do people have the right to? Probably, but I think there are so many bigger issues more worthy of debate and I don't think anybody is really going to suffer if they have to wait until the end of their car journey, or pull over somewhere, to have a fag.

Rob..the publicans I know, all of them bar one is a non-smoker.... and yes, the licensing trade was in trouble before the ban - but to say the smoking ban has had zero effect on punter numbers in these establishments.... well, the colosal rise in the places going under these past few years is surely some indication....

 

And Suedehead - so when you first ever went to a pub, it would obviously have been 'full of smoke'.... you continued to goregardless.... so what made you suddenly 'get out of the habit' of going - was there a rapid rise in the number of smokers in these establishments?

 

..i didnt say it had zero effect, it contributed but wasnt the sole cause.

 

i hated smokey pubs, id avoid them, now i can go in and enjoy not having my lungs filled with shyte.

 

i find smokers are like dog owners, under the mistaken belief that everybody is not offended by it. smoke in pubs made me physically sick, it blocked my nose, made my throat sore, and had a direct effect upon my health.... look no further then roy castle for just how it can effect you. i then took the stench home with me, so it affected my living space... i find the insistance that i should put up with smoke as offensive as racism, sexism, homophobia, etc etc etc.

smokers like dog owners... hmm.. or parents, who see no harm whatsoever in inflicting their vile children on anyone who'll tolerate them in public places regardless of a huge annoyance factor.

 

OK, kids don't harm your health - but it's staggering how parents seem blind that their kids really should be kept under control, and out of other people's faces, in public.

 

As for Roy Castle..ah...is this the man who made his living on the backs of the people attending workingmen's clubs - then derided them for (apparently) causing his death from cancer? He was a horrible little twerp anyway.... I'd have blown smoke in his face if he'd ruined my night with his naff act in a pub I was in.

smokers like dog owners... hmm.. or parents, who see no harm whatsoever in inflicting their vile children on anyone who'll tolerate them in public places regardless of a huge annoyance factor.

 

OK, kids don't harm your health - but it's staggering how parents seem blind that their kids really should be kept under control, and out of other people's faces, in public.

 

As for Roy Castle..ah...is this the man who made his living on the backs of the people attending workingmen's clubs - then derided them for (apparently) causing his death from cancer? He was a horrible little twerp anyway.... I'd have blown smoke in his face if he'd ruined my night with his naff act in a pub I was in.

 

i fully agree that bratts should be kept under control, just been to the shop where some dope of a bloke was oblivious to the fact his kids were in the way of another till whilst playing, then handling goods that were on display...

 

tbh i didnt like roy castle either, but either way the example stands.