this guy, a school kid, speaks a whole lot of sense here.

The video on the previous page lost all effect on me by that woman who bellowed "LOOK AT ME YEAH BLUD, REMEMBAR DEEZ BUMBACLART'S FACEZ YEAAH" or something to that effect. And she's protesting against education cuts? Oh spin me another yarn, the irony's unbearable! And if you're pregnant, obviously not one of the best places to be? I'm not defending the Met. Police at all as they're awful (Thames Valley ftw), but come off it.

The video on the previous page lost all effect on me by that woman who bellowed "LOOK AT ME YEAH BLUD, REMEMBAR DEEZ BUMBACLART'S FACEZ YEAAH" or something to that effect. And she's protesting against education cuts? Oh spin me another yarn, the irony's unbearable! And if you're pregnant, obviously not one of the best places to be? I'm not defending the Met. Police at all as they're awful (Thames Valley ftw), but come off it.

 

Well, you wouldn't think that Sharon Stone has an IQ of almost 160 either would you......? :P

 

I'm pretty sure she must have some sort of vested interest in this, you wouldn't willingly go out on a bloody freezing cold November's day just for the good of your health would you....? :lol:

The government's policy on this is becoming more of a mess by the day. Now it seems Lib Dem ministers are planning to take the coward's way out and abstain from voting on the policy when it comes before Parliament. There's still a hardcore of about 15 Lib Dem MPs who are insisting they'll vote against, and according to the NUS, atleast 3 Tory MPs have said they'll vote against - when you take all that into account, the maths gets very tight, and it remains to be seen whether this policy will actually pass. Meanwhile, the government continue to insist they'll force universities to take extra measures to ensure they admit more poor kids, yet they're not going to bother telling us what those measures are until atleast March - two months after MPs vote on the fees rise.

 

EDIT: I've just heard that Channel 4 News reported tonight that they've heard of possing Lib Dem ministerial resignations in the offing.

The government's policy on this is becoming more of a mess by the day. Now it seems Lib Dem ministers are planning to take the coward's way out and abstain from voting on the policy when it comes before Parliament. There's still a hardcore of about 15 Lib Dem MPs who are insisting they'll vote against, and according to the NUS, atleast 3 Tory MPs have said they'll vote against - when you take all that into account, the maths gets very tight, and it remains to be seen whether this policy will actually pass. Meanwhile, the government continue to insist they'll force universities to take extra measures to ensure they admit more poor kids, yet they're not going to bother telling us what those measures are until atleast March - two months after MPs vote on the fees rise.

 

EDIT: I've just heard that Channel 4 News reported tonight that they've heard of possing Lib Dem ministerial resignations in the offing.

 

They're rather assuming that "poorer" kids aren't gonna vote with their feet and either 1) not bother with uni til later or 2) shop around EU instititions and perhaps find a cheaper option......

 

I am rather doing the Happy Dance that the "Coalishun" seem to be sliding into disarray over this policy though....... :banana: :lol:

The Commons vote has been scheduled for next Thursday evening. I'm sure the government didn't choose this time because the Scottish and Norhern Irish MPs (pretty much all of whom are bitterly opposed to the Coalition's policy on this) have usually gone back to their constituencies for the weekend at that time...

The Commons vote has been scheduled for next Thursday evening. I'm sure the government didn't choose this time because the Scottish and Norhern Irish MPs (pretty much all of whom are bitterly opposed to the Coalition's policy on this) have usually gone back to their constituencies for the weekend at that time...

That would hardly be the first time a government had scheduled a vote to maximise their chances of winning. They would also argue that, as it doesn't affect Scotland and Northern Ireland, the ti ing is justified. I'm not defending them, just pointing out how they can justify the timing.

It benefits the Conservatives greatly as they have a single seat north of the Boarder and a lot of the LibDem's who oppose this are from Scottish Seats.

 

Plus, given that Labour have the largest number of MP's from Scotland it's a sizeable chunk of their vote gone as well.

 

If Ed has any sense it'll be a two or three line whip to try to prevent this from going through

It benefits the Conservatives greatly as they have a single seat north of the Boarder and a lot of the LibDem's who oppose this are from Scottish Seats.

 

Plus, given that Labour have the largest number of MP's from Scotland it's a sizeable chunk of their vote gone as well.

 

If Ed has any sense it'll be a two or three line whip to try to prevent this from going through

 

TBH though, I'm beginning to wonder if Ed actually does have any sense..... :lol: :lol:

I dont think that the fees should rise. Its already a rip off

I dont think that the fees should rise. Its already a rip off

 

Bugger Me, we actually agree on something..... :o :o :lol: :lol:

You know if I got to uni next year before the new fee's come into effect, will I pay the £3,000 for all 3 years, or will I have to pay £3000 the first year and then £1,000,000 or whatever ridiculous amount it is for the next 2? I mean, will I have mine changed if I'm already a student? :)

It's £3000 for the first year BUT if you're already at uni, the increased rates won't be able to affect you when they come in. It's put our year off having a gap year for sure :lol:

As if it couldn't get any better:

 

 

Business Secretary Vince Cable will back a rise in tuition fees in next week's crucial Commons vote, it has emerged.

 

 

He told a newspaper: "Obviously I have a duty as a minister to vote for my own policy - and that is what will happen." Mr Cable has previously said all Lib Dem MPs would act collectively to abstain in the vote. The Lib Dems told the BBC they are not disputing the quotes in the Richmond and Twickenham Times. A source stressed the party's MPs were still discussing their position - but the BBC understands the idea of a mass abstention by Lib Dems on tuition fees is growing less likely.

 

Liberal Democrats have faced angry protests from students, with the party's London MPs forced to cancel a planned conference on Saturday after fears it would be disrupted.

 

“What we are doing is giving universities the opportunity to maintain high standards by charging better off graduates later in life more than they are at the moment”

Vince Cable Business Secretary

 

Mr Cable told the newspaper he had reconsidered his decision and had "no doubt" he should support the controversial policy that will allow some universities to charge up to £9,000 in fees. He said he had been considering abstaining to offer an "olive branch" to Lib Dem colleagues who were "finding this difficult". He added that he felt sad when he saw students taking to the streets, saying: "Whenever I get the chance to discuss the situation with them face-to-face and I am able to explain it I think there is more understanding of the problem - that we had to take very substantial cuts in my department."

 

He added: "What we are doing is giving universities the opportunity to maintain high standards by charging better-off graduates later in life more than they are at the moment. But we built in a lot of protection for students from low income backgrounds and graduates who have a low income or take time out for a family, and I think there's common consensus that the system we've devised is a progressive one."

 

BBC political correspondent Iain Watson said Mr Cable's revelation set up the possibility of a "three way split" in Thursday's Commons vote with some Lib Dems voting "yes", some "no" and some abstaining.

 

He will later meet students from St Mary's University College, in Twickenham, to discuss the issue. Giving his reaction to the business secretary's revelation, Aaron Porter, president of the National Union of Students, said: "Dr Cable has performed so many U-turns over the issue of university funding that he is spinning on his heels. "That might stand him in good stead with the Strictly Come Dancing judges but the electorate will see it differently."

 

 

The Lib Dems have come under heavy pressure after pledging before the election to vote against any fee rise. Mr Cable and Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg have both defended the proposals - which will see no upfront payments and graduates starting to repay the cost of their degrees when they earn £21,000. They say low-earning students will contribute less than under the system the coalition inherited. But student leaders say the proposals - which followed the independent Browne review of student finance - will deter people from poorer backgrounds from applying to university. But party sources say the leadership has tried to limit the scale of the group planning to vote "no," with the whips warning backbenchers a government defeat on fees could trigger a general election.

 

About a dozen Lib Dem backbenchers are currently expected to vote against the increases - including former leader Sir Menzies Campbell and party president Tim Farron - but that would not be enough to prevent them becoming law.

 

Deputy Lib Dem leader Simon Hughes has still not decided what to do. He is expected to make a decision after the a meeting of the Lib Dem Parliamentary Party on Tuesday, the BBC understands.

 

Labour higher education spokesman Gareth Thomas said: "John Cleese could not have scripted this farce better than Vince Cable. The truth is these proposals weren't necessary, they're unfair and they don't offer a long-term sustainable system of support for students or for universities. Other Liberal Democrat and Conservative MPs need to join Labour on Thursday to force the government to think again."

 

The National Union of Students have said they will hold a "day of action" on Wednesday 8 December, on the eve of the Commons vote.

 

 

[source: BBC News]

 

 

All i can say is good on you Ming!!!!!! He continues like this i will have no problem re-electing him

Even though Dundee Uni rejected a referendum on joining NUS, we will also be having a day of action on Wed 8th

As if it couldn't get any better:

Business Secretary Vince Cable will back a rise in tuition fees in next week's crucial Commons vote, it has emerged.

He told a newspaper: "Obviously I have a duty as a minister to vote for my own policy - and that is what will happen." Mr Cable has previously said all Lib Dem MPs would act collectively to abstain in the vote. The Lib Dems told the BBC they are not disputing the quotes in the Richmond and Twickenham Times. A source stressed the party's MPs were still discussing their position - but the BBC understands the idea of a mass abstention by Lib Dems on tuition fees is growing less likely.

 

Liberal Democrats have faced angry protests from students, with the party's London MPs forced to cancel a planned conference on Saturday after fears it would be disrupted.

 

“What we are doing is giving universities the opportunity to maintain high standards by charging better off graduates later in life more than they are at the moment”

Vince Cable Business Secretary

 

Mr Cable told the newspaper he had reconsidered his decision and had "no doubt" he should support the controversial policy that will allow some universities to charge up to £9,000 in fees. He said he had been considering abstaining to offer an "olive branch" to Lib Dem colleagues who were "finding this difficult". He added that he felt sad when he saw students taking to the streets, saying: "Whenever I get the chance to discuss the situation with them face-to-face and I am able to explain it I think there is more understanding of the problem - that we had to take very substantial cuts in my department."

 

He added: "What we are doing is giving universities the opportunity to maintain high standards by charging better-off graduates later in life more than they are at the moment. But we built in a lot of protection for students from low income backgrounds and graduates who have a low income or take time out for a family, and I think there's common consensus that the system we've devised is a progressive one."

 

BBC political correspondent Iain Watson said Mr Cable's revelation set up the possibility of a "three way split" in Thursday's Commons vote with some Lib Dems voting "yes", some "no" and some abstaining.

 

He will later meet students from St Mary's University College, in Twickenham, to discuss the issue. Giving his reaction to the business secretary's revelation, Aaron Porter, president of the National Union of Students, said: "Dr Cable has performed so many U-turns over the issue of university funding that he is spinning on his heels. "That might stand him in good stead with the Strictly Come Dancing judges but the electorate will see it differently."

The Lib Dems have come under heavy pressure after pledging before the election to vote against any fee rise. Mr Cable and Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg have both defended the proposals - which will see no upfront payments and graduates starting to repay the cost of their degrees when they earn £21,000. They say low-earning students will contribute less than under the system the coalition inherited. But student leaders say the proposals - which followed the independent Browne review of student finance - will deter people from poorer backgrounds from applying to university. But party sources say the leadership has tried to limit the scale of the group planning to vote "no," with the whips warning backbenchers a government defeat on fees could trigger a general election.

 

About a dozen Lib Dem backbenchers are currently expected to vote against the increases - including former leader Sir Menzies Campbell and party president Tim Farron - but that would not be enough to prevent them becoming law.

 

Deputy Lib Dem leader Simon Hughes has still not decided what to do. He is expected to make a decision after the a meeting of the Lib Dem Parliamentary Party on Tuesday, the BBC understands.

 

Labour higher education spokesman Gareth Thomas said: "John Cleese could not have scripted this farce better than Vince Cable. The truth is these proposals weren't necessary, they're unfair and they don't offer a long-term sustainable system of support for students or for universities. Other Liberal Democrat and Conservative MPs need to join Labour on Thursday to force the government to think again."

 

The National Union of Students have said they will hold a "day of action" on Wednesday 8 December, on the eve of the Commons vote.

[source: BBC News]

All i can say is good on you Ming!!!!!! He continues like this i will have no problem re-electing him

 

The "Lib Dems Position" is basically this - lying prostrate on the floor, legs apart, waiting for the Tory shaft..... :rolleyes: Honestly, do they, as a party, even have any credibility anymore? Did you see Danny "Beaker" Alexander on Question Time...? I mean, seriously, what a blethering wee gobsh"te he was..... He didn't seem to have a bloody clue as to what his own party's official position actually was. Tit..... :lol: Of course, Ming Campbell has no such issues, he's a man of principle and will vote against it....

 

The Fib Dems have really just guaranteed that no one will ever vote for them again, and have given the Tories convenient scapegoats into the bargain. Bang up job, Nick....

 

Labour higher education spokesman Gareth Thomas said: "John Cleese could not have scripted this farce better than Vince Cable. The truth is these proposals weren't necessary, they're unfair and they don't offer a long-term sustainable system of support for students or for universities. Other Liberal Democrat and Conservative MPs need to join Labour on Thursday to force the government to think again."

If these proposals are not necessary, perhaps Mr Thomas could explain why the Labour government in which he served as a minister set up the Browne review.

If these proposals are not necessary, perhaps Mr Thomas could explain why the Labour government in which he served as a minister set up the Browne review.

 

Labour never bound themselves to following the Browne proposals to the letter, and in any case the review was set up by Lord Mandelson who is no longer part of the shadow cabinet, before the general election when Labour had a different leader.

The "Lib Dems Position" is basically this - lying prostrate on the floor, legs apart, waiting for the Tory shaft..... :rolleyes: Honestly, do they, as a party, even have any credibility anymore? Did you see Danny "Beaker" Alexander on Question Time...? I mean, seriously, what a blethering wee gobsh"te he was..... He didn't seem to have a bloody clue as to what his own party's official position actually was. Tit..... :lol: Of course, Ming Campbell has no such issues, he's a man of principle and will vote against it....

 

The Fib Dems have really just guaranteed that no one will ever vote for them again, and have given the Tories convenient scapegoats into the bargain. Bang up job, Nick....

 

The Lib Dems' short-sightedness really does never cease to amaze me. Even setting aside principles and decency, I just can't see how on earth they think it's going to work electorally. They're going to have LITERALLY no flagship issues upon which to gain votes. They've sacrified tuition fees. Iraq is no longer a factor. They're no loinger going to be able to attack the government of the day for being unfair, as people will simply to say them "how can we trust you now when you went against everything you said last time?". They've got no discernible policy wins out of the Coalition - the only possible one I can think of the delaying of the Trident replacement - which a)I think there's a good chance would've happened in a Tory majority govt due to Osborne's lust for cuts regardless of the consequences, and b)isn't going to swing anyone's votes eitherway.

 

They can say all they want that junior Coalition partners in other European countries don't suffer in elections, but the fact is, most of them have the sense not to let themselves be as submissive as the Lib Dems have been. For instance, when the German Greens went into coalition with the conservatives some time ago, they insisted that they get their flagship policy through (a ban on fox-hunting) - the Lib Dems failed to protect their flagship policy of tuition fees. In most European coalitions, the junior party actually holds some important roles, rather than serving as the Chancellor's deputies and jobs like "Scottish Secretary". And most importantly, in most Coalitions, the junior party is careful to not give a full endorsement of Coalition policies that they traditionally disagree with - you certainly wouldn't usually see the leader of the junior party clapping the back of the Chancellor after he'd delivered cuts that you'd always fought against.

The "Lib Dems Position" is basically this - lying prostrate on the floor, legs apart, waiting for the Tory shaft..... :rolleyes: Honestly, do they, as a party, even have any credibility anymore? Did you see Danny "Beaker" Alexander on Question Time...? I mean, seriously, what a blethering wee gobsh"te he was..... He didn't seem to have a bloody clue as to what his own party's official position actually was. Tit..... :lol: Of course, Ming Campbell has no such issues, he's a man of principle and will vote against it....

 

The Fib Dems have really just guaranteed that no one will ever vote for them again, and have given the Tories convenient scapegoats into the bargain. Bang up job, Nick....

The Lib Dems will still get votes, mainly in areas where the MP actually has Morals [i can see Ming walking the next election for North East Fife] or where the only options are Conservative or SNP. i.e. Scotland :lol: