No, Thatcher just spent huge amounts of taxpayers' money looking for her imbecilic son when he got lost in the desert.

 

What is Clegg's plan. I don't know yet. However, I do now that by talking about it he has already done more than Labour did. Your last comment is bizarre. That's the opposite of what he is trying to do. He's trying to stop people getting jobs just because of their connections. Will he succeed? Perhaps not but at least he's proposing to try which is more than Cameron is likely to have done if the Tories had a majority.

What is Clegg's plan. I don't know yet. However, I do now that by talking about it he has already done more than Labour did. Your last comment is bizarre. That's the opposite of what he is trying to do. He's trying to stop people getting jobs just because of their connections. Will he succeed? Perhaps not but at least he's proposing to try which is more than Cameron is likely to have done if the Tories had a majority.

 

And how does he think to achieve this with the Tories as "Coalition Partners" FFS...??? They wont do a damn thing to aid him, in fact, quite the opposite, they'll oppose him at every turn just as they are with AV... Amazing innit, he bends over backwards to accommodate them and sells out all his principles and votes with the Tories on just about every measure that Ca-Moron, etc, has proposed, and yet, what exactly do they do for him...? Nothing. Zip. Nada...

 

Politicians can talk and talk and talk, but we both know that very little of that talk gets acted on... As I say, it's lip service and sounds an awful lot like the spin that Nu Labor constantly harped on.. He surely knows that he cant succeed with the Tories stepping in his way, and I doubt he'll ever be able to convince Labour that he's actually sincere either (seeing as how he's basically become a serial liar and done more U-Turns than a Hollywood stunt driver...). It's like he knows that it'll ultimately fail, but, hey at least he can say that he "tried" (just not too hard...)

 

And how does he think to achieve this with the Tories as "Coalition Partners" FFS...??? They wont do a damn thing to aid him, in fact, quite the opposite, they'll oppose him at every turn just as they are with AV... Amazing innit, he bends over backwards to accommodate them and sells out all his principles and votes with the Tories on just about every measure that Ca-Moron, etc, has proposed, and yet, what exactly do they do for him...? Nothing. Zip. Nada...

 

Politicians can talk and talk and talk, but we both know that very little of that talk gets acted on... As I say, it's lip service and sounds an awful lot like the spin that Nu Labor constantly harped on.. He surely knows that he cant succeed with the Tories stepping in his way, and I doubt he'll ever be able to convince Labour that he's actually sincere either (seeing as how he's basically become a serial liar and done more U-Turns than a Hollywood stunt driver...). It's like he knows that it'll ultimately fail, but, hey at least he can say that he "tried" (just not too hard...)

But that's politics isn't it?

 

People like you have (justifiably) been criticising Clegg for not attempting to maintain the Lib Dems' separate identity and for sucking up to Cameron. Now that he is potentially highlighting a difference between the Lib Dems and the Tories you're criticising him for that as well.

But that's politics isn't it?

 

People like you have (justifiably) been criticising Clegg for not attempting to maintain the Lib Dems' separate identity and for sucking up to Cameron. Now that he is potentially highlighting a difference between the Lib Dems and the Tories you're criticising him for that as well.

 

"Social Mobility" isn't exactly his concept though, is it...?

"Social Mobility" isn't exactly his concept though, is it...?

Did I say it was?

Did I say it was?

 

No, but the point is, how then is he bringing out his own personality when in fact he's just borrowing ideas off of others... There's nothing really of the Lib Dems in this concept, they're "borrowing" the idea off Labour.... And they couldn't really define what the hell it was either, it's a bit like "Big Society"....

 

"A lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing..."

No, but the point is, how then is he bringing out his own personality when in fact he's just borrowing ideas off of others... There's nothing really of the Lib Dems in this concept, they're "borrowing" the idea off Labour.... And they couldn't really define what the hell it was either, it's a bit like "Big Society"....

 

"A lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing..."

So you'd rather he didn't even attempt to do something about it? All parties borrow off each other. Plenty of Lib Dem policies have been implemented in the past by other parties.

Of course he's also being called a hypocrite for wanting to end the culture of "It's not what you know, it's who you know that counts" because he got some help from his father. What is wrong with saying that he now thinks it is wrong to benefit from that? Is someone who went to public school a hypocrite if they go on to oppose public schools? If a drink-driver is involved in a serious accident and then use their experience to campaign against drink-driving, does that make them a hypocrite?

 

I don't think the fact he benefitted from his privileged start in life in itself disqualifies him from being an advocate of social mobility. You can't choose the start in life you get.

 

What I do think disqualifies him from talking about social mobility is the fact that he's done a host of things in government that will only worsen social mobility - cutting EMA by 70%, trebling tuition fees and now apparently cutting student numbers to pay for it, cutting help both financial (tax credits) and otherwise (SureStart) for less well-off families.

So you'd rather he didn't even attempt to do something about it? All parties borrow off each other. Plenty of Lib Dem policies have been implemented in the past by other parties.

 

I'd rather it was someone else with a bit more bloody credibility pushing for this... Nick Clegg has become a totally polarising figure, no one likes him, so no one is gonna take him seriously, especially when it looks an awful lot like a case of "don't do as I do, do as I say...".

 

Perhaps he should let Ming Campbell head this one up, people actually LIKE Ming and respect him. And considering his constituency covers St Andrews would clearly understand the issues involved with young people needing a decent start in life..... Oh, yeah, and he voted AGAINST the sh!t that Clegg rolled over on his belly on....

I don't think the fact he benefitted from his privileged start in life in itself disqualifies him from being an advocate of social mobility. You can't choose the start in life you get.

 

What I do think disqualifies him from talking about social mobility is the fact that he's done a host of things in government that will only worsen social mobility - cutting EMA by 70%, trebling tuition fees and now apparently cutting student numbers to pay for it, cutting help both financial (tax credits) and otherwise (SureStart) for less well-off families.

 

And neither can you all of a sudden go around bitching about "sharp elbowed parents" when YOUR parent kind of fits into that category, all of a sudden it's become "bad" to want the best for your kids....? You know, I'd really love to be a fly on the wall when he explains this one to his dad....

 

"Oh, but, Papa, I didn't mean you., I meant all these OTHER sharp-elbowed parents......" :rolleyes:

And neither can you all of a sudden go around bitching about "sharp elbowed parents" when YOUR parent kind of fits into that category, all of a sudden it's become "bad" to want the best for your kids....? You know, I'd really love to be a fly on the wall when he explains this one to his dad....

 

"Oh, but, Papa, I didn't mean you., I meant all these OTHER sharp-elbowed parents......" :rolleyes:

Why not? why is it not possible for someone to change their mind? OK, we get the message. You don't like Nick Clegg. I'm not his biggest fan either but that doesn't mean I'm going to disagree with him all the time.

 

Is he the best person to head this initiative? If it's going to be a minister who does this then he probably is. After all, if he wasn't doing that then people like you would keep carping on about how he hasn't got a proper job.

Why not? why is it not possible for someone to change their mind? OK, we get the message. You don't like Nick Clegg. I'm not his biggest fan either but that doesn't mean I'm going to disagree with him all the time.

 

Dude, NO ONE likes Nick Clegg... I mean, imagine it, you're running (or were running) a Sure Start or a Connexions centre, all of sudden Nick Clegg pops by and starts talking about Social Mobility.... I mean, honestly, you'd think he was just taking the p"ss wouldn't you....? Still, I suppose it's taken our minds off "Alarm Clock Britain"......

 

Anyway he does have a job, he's the scapegoat who takes the blame when everything Dave and Gideon are doing goes tits up, of course, not that anyone's actually told him this yet.... :rolleyes:

The leader of the Scottish Lib Dems said Clegg makes him "grimace" ("Nick Clegg doesn't make me cry - grimace, occasionally, but never cry") - which might explain why the Lib Dem leaflets for the Scottish election have Charles Kennedy on the front instead of Clegg. :lol:

Dude, NO ONE likes Nick Clegg... I mean, imagine it, you're running (or were running) a Sure Start or a Connexions centre, all of sudden Nick Clegg pops by and starts talking about Social Mobility.... I mean, honestly, you'd think he was just taking the p"ss wouldn't you....? Still, I suppose it's taken our minds off "Alarm Clock Britain"......

 

Anyway he does have a job, he's the scapegoat who takes the blame when everything Dave and Gideon are doing goes tits up, of course, not that anyone's actually told him this yet.... :rolleyes:

That's a gross exaggeration. He has an approval rating of minus 26. Of course, when compared with his predecessors (who had the luxury of being in permanent opposition) that is a terrible rating but it's hardly universal loathing. The other two party leaders also have negative ratings although not as bad as Clegg's.

The leader of the Scottish Lib Dems said Clegg makes him "grimace" ("Nick Clegg doesn't make me cry - grimace, occasionally, but never cry") - which might explain why the Lib Dem leaflets for the Scottish election have Charles Kennedy on the front instead of Clegg. :lol:

In the same way that Gordon Brown was missing from a lot of Labour leaflets last year.

The leader of the Scottish Lib Dems said Clegg makes him "grimace" ("Nick Clegg doesn't make me cry - grimace, occasionally, but never cry") - which might explain why the Lib Dem leaflets for the Scottish election have Charles Kennedy on the front instead of Clegg. :lol:

Charles Kennedy is a Scottish MP, Clegg is english. In a country with a high enough nationalist sentiment to elect the SNP it was a wise move not to remind them of the man that gave the Tory's power seeing as they are public enemy #1 this side of Hadrian's wall.

There was a very good letter in yesterday's Observer (I tend to be a bit behind with the Sunday papers) from Michael Meadowcroft. He is a former Liberal MP from Leeds who was always very much on the left of the Liberal party. For many years he opposed the merger and remained a member of the Liberal Party rather than joining the Lib Dems. He finally joined the Lib Dems a couple years ago but remains very much a man of the left. This is what he had to say

 

The phrase "Clegg-baiting circus" in your leader "How should we judge Clegg's eventful year?", (Comment) sums up accurately all that is debilitating in today's media treatment of leading politicians. Once newspapers lock on to a particular individual everything is apparently fair game. Phrases can be isolated from their context and jokes or irony treated as serious comment.

 

Take Nick Clegg. His comments about "not being a punchbag" and being moved to tears by music were dragged out from a long interview to suggest he is too soft for politics. But why should we prefer to have callous, hard-bitten men and women rather than sensitive human beings in charge of our affairs? The current debate on the NHS demonstrates another example. Nick Clegg's influence on the "pause" in the passage of the bill is taken as demonstrating the weakness of the coalition. But had he and his coalition partners forced through the legislation they would then have been accused of being authoritarian and of failing to heed concerns.

 

Finally, he is accused of hypocrisy for attacking nepotism when he himself benefited from parental influence. But surely it is more important, not less, for someone in his position to make the point that others should not require the same benefit?

 

There was another vaguely hopeful sign from Clegg yesterday when Cameron made his typically patronising response to a Labour frontbencher who dared to point out that he had got his facts wrong - again. While Gideon Osborne reacted as if it was the funniest thing ever uttered by a human being, Clegg showed no emotion at all. Of course, the real test will still be what happens after the local elections / referendum next week. Will Clegg continue to act as less of a puppet or will he go back to being a lapdog?

There was another vaguely hopeful sign from Clegg yesterday when Cameron made his typically patronising response to a Labour frontbencher who dared to point out that he had got his facts wrong - again. While Gideon Osborne reacted as if it was the funniest thing ever uttered by a human being, Clegg showed no emotion at all. Of course, the real test will still be what happens after the local elections / referendum next week. Will Clegg continue to act as less of a puppet or will he go back to being a lapdog?

 

Is this the now-infamous "calm down, dear" moment you're talking about...? Yeah, smug c**t that he is. <_< Well, both him and Gideon really.. Frankly, they both deserved a punching for that...

 

Is this the now-infamous "calm down, dear" moment you're talking about...? Yeah, smug c**t that he is. <_ well both him and gideon really.. frankly they deserved a punching for that...>

Yes, that's what I was referring to. See the AV referendum thread for another example of Cameron's arrogance.