I wondered if there is a single agreed definition of which week is the xmas chart in any given year. I would say that I would define it as the chart that was current on the day itself or to put it another way if I were to travel back in time to xmas day of a year and ask a passer by there what the top of the current chart looked like which chart would they tell me about (assuming I picked someone with an interest in the pop charts but not an insider).

From 1969-86 it's relatively clear whether a chart was announced in time for xmas or not as it was always announced on a Tuesday so you can just select the Tues before xmas day and the count forward to the Sat to find the right chart, in addition many years in that period had a skipped chart due to the compilation staff taking a week off for xmas so the same chart is applicable in the weeks either side of the day anyhow. Since 1987 announcements were the Sunday before or on 25th, with one delayed chart (1988, so I'd personally count the week before) and no skips.

But things get trickier in the era before 1969 as it's necessary to know which dates the original paper came out on and therefore which was the last chart to be published before xmas that year. In particular the years 1959-61 are probably wrongly attributed now as the charts now recognised as the xmas chart were surely published after the day (as much as ten days after if there wasn't even a publication in the week after). Is there anyone with more wrinkles (I mean experience lol) than me who can tell us what the actual last pre-xmas publication dates were for NME in 52-59 or RR in 1960-68?

Nowadays, I would definite it as 'the chart announced between 19th-25th Dec on Radio 1'.

Its usually the Sunday before Xmas Day nowadays - so if xmas day is on Wednesday the Sunday before is the xmas chart but say xmas day is on a Sunday then the xmas chart will be on xmas day itself if you get me!

I wondered if there is a single agreed definition of which week is the xmas chart in any given year. I would say that I would define it as the chart that was current on the day itself or to put it another way if I were to travel back in time to xmas day of a year and ask a passer by there what the top of the current chart looked like which chart would they tell me about (assuming I picked someone with an interest in the pop charts but not an insider).

From 1969-86 it's relatively clear whether a chart was announced in time for xmas or not as it was always announced on a Tuesday so you can just select the Tues before xmas day and the count forward to the Sat to find the right chart, in addition many years in that period had a skipped chart due to the compilation staff taking a week off for xmas so the same chart is applicable in the weeks either side of the day anyhow. Since 1987 announcements were the Sunday before or on 25th, with one delayed chart (1988, so I'd personally count the week before) and no skips.

But things get trickier in the era before 1969 as it's necessary to know which dates the original paper came out on and therefore which was the last chart to be published before xmas that year. In particular the years 1959-61 are probably wrongly attributed now as the charts now recognised as the xmas chart were surely published after the day (as much as ten days after if there wasn't even a publication in the week after). Is there anyone with more wrinkles (I mean experience lol) than me who can tell us what the actual last pre-xmas publication dates were for NME in 52-59 or RR in 1960-68?

The Record Retailer chart was never accepted as a chart to be used in the 60s & neither was NME in the 50s! So, you go to the BBC, & you find that their own chart was new on a Friday between 59 & 61, a Thursday from 62 to 63, & finally a Tuesday from the start of Top Of The Pops on 31st December 1963. On Radio One in 1968, Christmas Eve was a Tuesday, but there wasn't a chart announced, so the Christmas top 30 came out on 17th Dec. BBC/Radio One took an average from RM/MM/DISC/NME up until May 1960, then dropped RM (because it used to come out late). From 31st March 62, the BBC averaged MM/DISC/NME/RR, & finally MM/NME/RR from 2nd Sept 1967 (Disc was then taken over by MM). From Tues 11th Feb 1969, Radio One joined forces with the British Market Research Bureau for the first computerised top 30 rundown. The 31 to 50 was still prone to errors & hype & was never mentioned on air. It finally became a top 75 on May 9th 78, but again due to errors & hype, Radio One grew to a Top 40 only & still stick by that decision & are not allowed to mention positions 41 to 75.

 

Record Retailer would have been right out in dates (as well as being utter nonsense for 60s chart). It used a Friday compilation (Sat to Fri averaged from a poll of 25 shops only), but the paper didn't hit the stands until the following Thursday. NME used more shops, but compiled on a Tuesday (Weds to Tues averaged poll on 100 shops) & was in the shops on Wednesdays. Melody Maker & Disc were the only 2 charts using a Mon to Sat average poll on over 150 shops (both in the shops on a Tuesday). Never let it be said that Record Retailer was better than any, because it wasn't. Nobody saw the paper hardly & even the media ignored it, for what it was. It was behind all the other papers, & had the smallest poll. It only got recognition, when the compilers of Guiness used it, & they only used it because it was the first to carry a top 50. One of the people behind the compiling of that chart, admitted to a huge amount of mistakes, & over the Christmas period of 1961, the compiler himself mixed up Acker Bilk with Kenny Ball, can you believe?! Record Mirror used a Friday to Thursday chart comp & hit the stands on Fri/Sat.

 

No charts used sales to compile their charts. Each store involved with each paper, would just supply the music papers, with a top 50 of what was selling & then the person in charge of the paper, would just add positions together to make up a chart i.e. Record Retailer would take 25 shops & add the positions to make the chart. NME would take 150 (at their peak in 1967) & add those together. Melody Maker used nearly 200 at their peak in 1967 & added those together & Disc (with a peak of 100 in 1967) added those 100 together.

Edited November 16, 201113 yr by davetaylor

The chart announced on Christmas Day will include sales up to and including Christmas Eve. Logically, therefore, that should count as the Christmas chart. Having the Christmas chart based on sales up to December 17 makes no sense. It would have been acceptable in the days when the chart was announced a few days after the end of the sales period but not any more.

The chart announced on Christmas Day will include sales up to and including Christmas Eve. Logically, therefore, that should count as the Christmas chart. Having the Christmas chart based on sales up to December 17 makes no sense. It would have been acceptable in the days when the chart was announced a few days after the end of the sales period but not any more.

Basically, the 1960s BBC centred around Top Of The Pops. Hence, the 17th Dec 1968 was the R1 Christmas chart, because the 25th Dec 68 was Top Of The Pops 68 & featured those #1s of the year. While on Sunday 29th Dec 68, it was Pick Of the 1968 Pops, with all the top 3s of the year. Normal service was resumed, with a new chart on 31st Dec 68, when later into the 70s there wouldn't have been a chart announced on the final week of the year.

 

It's got to be said though, throughout the period of 1956 - 1969 (at Christmas) there were not any new number ones during Christmas week i.e. the BBC had all these #1s for Christmas (see below) but they'd already got there in previous weeks.

 

1956 Just Walkin' In The Rain - Johnny Ray (Chart of Fri 21st Dec) Note: The BBC didn't use a chart until September1957, but were more inclined to mention positions from Record Mirror (which tied in nicely with their later chart date)

1957 Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte (Chart of Fri 20th Dec)

1958 It's Only Make Believe (Conway Twitty) (Chart of Fri 19th Dec)

1959 What Do You Want (Adam Faith) (Chart of Thurs 24th Dec) This was an early comp because of Christmas falling on a Friday

1960 It's Now Or Never (Elvis) (Chart of Fri 23rd Dec)

1961 Tower Of Strength (Frankie Vaughan) (Chart of Thurs 21st Dec)

1962 Return To Sender (Elvis) (Chart of Thurs 20th Dec)

1963 I Wanna Hold Your Hand (Beatles) (Chart of Thurs 19th Dec)

1964 I Feel Fine (Beatles) (Chart of Tues 22nd Dec)

1965 Daytripper/We Can Work It Out (Beatles) (Chart of Tues 21st Dec)

1966 Green Green Grass Of Home (Tom Jones) (Chart of Tues 20th Dec)

1967 Hello Goodbye (Beatles) (Chart of Tues 19th Dec)

1968 Lily The Pink (The Scaffold) (Chart of Tues 17th Dec)

1969 Two Little Boys (Rolf Harris) (Chart of Tues 23rd Dec)

 

I believe this continued through until 1976, when Johnny Mathis got in the way of Showaddywaddy in a close battle (Tues 21st Dec 76). Another in 1985, when Shakin' Stevens took the crown from Whitney Houston, 1986 was the closest 80s battle with Jackie Wilson & The Housemartins, Band Aid II got in the way of Jive Bunny in 1989, & Cliff toppled Vanilla Ice in 1990. Although in December 1970, Dave Edmunds "I Here You Knocking" was almost knocked off by McGuiness Flint's "When I'm Dead & Gone" with a fall in sales for Edmunds & a rise in sales for McGuiness Flint with Clive Dunn on the case, in the closest battle for Christmas #1 since December 1955, when Dickie Valentine & Bill Haley were neck & neck.

 

As I'm slightly biased to the BBC, other media were using the following charts:

 

Radio Luxembourg ran the top 20 Sheet Music chart right through from 1948 to 1959 with the likes of Teddy Johnson & Pete Murray. Then after, they did the NME top 20 until June 1966, when then NME did a special weekend chart for them (you didn't see that in the Music Paper itself). From April 1967, Luxembourg made their own chart based on airplay & guesses with Paul Burnett.

 

Radio Caroline ran the Melody Maker top 50 on Saturday afternoons during 1964/5. After that they did their own average through to 1968, in vain to the BBC.

 

HMV depended on where you lived. Most of them showed the Melody Maker chart in their shops, others carried the EMI Top 30 (which was an average like the BBC, but a 50 shop sales quota). Arguably the EMI chart was probably better than the BBC...but it was hardly seen.

 

BFBS (The British Forces Service) ran an average chart from 1956 to 1969 exactly like the BBC.

 

Big L (Radio London) did their own Fab 40 (1964/7) based on their airplay, trying to be ahead, but totally made up. Only thing this has in common with Radio One is the DJs & Jingles! For instance Tony Blackburn, Tommy Vance, & Ed Stewart all had turns at the Fab 40, & all at one time or another presented the Radio One chart. Though, it's forgotten that Ed Stewart did Pick Of The Pops during March 1972.

 

Daily Mirror printed the Melody Maker chart, every week until the 1980s.

 

Various Local Newspapers did carry the Disc Top 20, during the mid 60s.

 

Add it all up: Record Retailer not used by anyone...we know the rest, RR not worth the light!

Edited November 17, 201113 yr by davetaylor

For me (and most of the general public I would say) it is the song that is at #1 on the official chart on xmas day - be it announced on that day or the preceding Sunday.

Thank you for the replies, especially davetaylor for all that detail. Your list of xmas no1s shows my reason for asking, in the years 1959-61, in that on the 'official' list Emile Ford had taken over at the top in 1959 after tieing in the same week u mention with Adam, in 1960 Cliff had ousted Elvis and in 1961 Danny Williams had knocked Frankie V off. In previous years I've defended Emile, Cliff and Danny as xmas no1s on online discussions, but when I was looking closely at the dates recently it suddenly occured to me that, even if you accepted Guinness' choice of charts, I doubt those 3 changes at the top were even known about on the actual day in those year's, even by the compilers.

Actually the reason I was looking into the dates at all was because this year is the 60th xmas chart, and as of the start of last week I had 30 working days left, so by way of a musical advent calendar I decided to listen to 2 xmas top 3's on the way to work each day (journey to work is around 30 mins), the closer to the present the hits get the closer to xmas we've got, although the last week will probably feel a bit anticlimatic with endless popstarsthe rivals and then x factor songs, and I'll have to anticpate the xmas chart on xmas eve and possibly buy the single that is gonna top even if it's crap factor's. Or I could just play more of last years on xmas eve and then treat the new chart on xmas day as part of my 'calendar'.

One more thing I meant to mention, the BBC are now allowed to refer to previous week's chart positions right down to 200 and give them on their ceefax/bbci and web pages, this has been the case for a few years now, probably originally owing to the number of tracks that were climbing from very low into the main chart during the 'downloads only count a week before the physical' rule. I think it's still the case that they cannot announce current chart positions below 75, and probably not in full between 40 and 75, although e.g. a high profile release that just misses the 40 in it's first week could probably be mentioned without sanctions I'd've thought.

Thank you for the replies, especially davetaylor for all that detail. Your list of xmas no1s shows my reason for asking, in the years 1959-61, in that on the 'official' list Emile Ford had taken over at the top in 1959 after tieing in the same week u mention with Adam, in 1960 Cliff had ousted Elvis and in 1961 Danny Williams had knocked Frankie V off. In previous years I've defended Emile, Cliff and Danny as xmas no1s on online discussions, but when I was looking closely at the dates recently it suddenly occured to me that, even if you accepted Guinness' choice of charts, I doubt those 3 changes at the top were even known about on the actual day in those year's, even by the compilers.

Actually the reason I was looking into the dates at all was because this year is the 60th xmas chart, and as of the start of last week I had 30 working days left, so by way of a musical advent calendar I decided to listen to 2 xmas top 3's on the way to work each day (journey to work is around 30 mins), the closer to the present the hits get the closer to xmas we've got, although the last week will probably feel a bit anticlimatic with endless popstarsthe rivals and then x factor songs, and I'll have to anticpate the xmas chart on xmas eve and possibly buy the single that is gonna top even if it's crap factor's. Or I could just play more of last years on xmas eve and then treat the new chart on xmas day as part of my 'calendar'.

I've recently unearthed some info, about the way Record Retailer, being littered with ties (that they used to separate in a cack handed way). Now, "I Love You" & Cliff was actually involved in a tie with Elvis, in RR on that Thursday 29th Dec paper (though it was separated). The paper didn't appear to that Thursday. So, your right in that part of your thinking. With Elvis, certainly being the Christmas #1, on which ever chart you look at.

It's the same for Danny Williams & RR on Thurs 28th Dec 1961. He was actually tied with Frankie Vaughan (though the paper separated again). So, Frankie is still the 61 #1.

The way they separated positions, seemed to change over time, but these 2 were given the number one, because of climbing from the previous week. Elvis & Frankie were relegated to #2, in favour of new number ones. Another occasion, it happened was on Thurs 11th Jan 1962. In actual fact, on RR (that week)...The Young Ones, was given favour over Stranger On The Shore. This is what really sums up, the stupidity of Record Retailer & it wasn't the last time it occured either. It makes a mockery of Guiness Books (which i've been doing for years, anyway). If you follow through, you also get the Rolling Stones (in a tie) with Nancy Sinatra in 1966, & then in March 1966, the compilers have got the figures evidently wrong for Nancy Sinatra & the Small Faces. Apparently, on 10th March 1966...Sha La La La Lee is listed at #6 & Nancy is listed at #1, & they should be the other way round! So, in that situation...Guiness lose at least 3 number ones, & a possible 2 others. One in 1963 & another in 1965.