Who just closed the thread for a minute? :o

 

THIS.

Who just closed the thread for a minute? :o

I hit the wrong button, it's been a 15hr day thus far.

And I was about to go ballistic at whoever closed my thread :D

It was probably just a slip of the mouse on the main page (mods can lock topics by clicking the little briefcase to the left of each topic). The same thing happens all the time in the Lounge, I don't think we should read into it too much!

:D http://www.moopy.org.uk/forums/images/smilies/gggggg.gif

People DID pick up on it - it did surprisingly well in the Pop forum for something which would otherwise normally go completely ignored had it been any of their other singles! And I'd say the fact a few people have already said they'd considered it but ruled it out almost instantly as they thought it'd be vetoed is a good sign people HAD picked up on it? (Although I'm not going to be as unfair as to suggest that you're at fault for not knowing that, given obviously it wasn't a factor during the vetoing process as people are only just saying they'd considered it now it's been sent)

 

And the argument about acts being used before and not doing remarkably well - well, look at Marina. A few midtable entries and one fairly successful one before Hollywood, but it was incredibly clear to everyone that Hollywood was an obvious winner as she was backed by near universal online hype and it was overall a far more accessible track than any of the others had been - as is the case with I Love It.

 

I can forgive it not being vetoed if none of you were genuinely aware of the hype behind I Love It (though surely this is yet another argument for the vetoing process to be widened at least a little more), but I really don't think there's much of a case against it not being an obvious winner now. The only thing I can see stopping it is if there's a proper backlash against it - but even that didn't stop the likes of Hollywood and Silly Boy, and I think if anything obvious winners are more accentuated by having even more contestants.

 

But if 12 posts is considered good feedback then surely anything that's even mentioned on this forum should be vetoed? I fail to see how a dead thread with a few people saying "I like this" is supposed be evidence that this song should be done with and thrown away. Also, people 'considering' it doesn't really help us during the process, as we haven't quite grasped the skill of mind-reading.

 

Surely 'Hollywood' was riding on the hype of the highly anticipated album that was released the month after it won the contest? AFAIK, Icona Pop aren't releasing their new album until well after the summer, so it's apples to oranges.

 

Plus, why the hell are we discussing the vetoing system again? We did all of this last month and we made changes to it. Just because some people disagree with one decision doesn't require all of us to go through the ENTIRE discussion again.

Ok, go. Tell me what your thrilling alternate system involves.

I never stated it to be thrilling, but it'd be nice if I could say it without just the slightest sense that you've already gone into hearing it planning on rejecting it whatever I say it is.

 

For the matter, it's what I've stated above. Widening the decision making for the veto system to a few more people who've participated in the contest for a good amount of time, shown a bit of commitment to the contest and would generally be taken to have a fair amount of expertise and familiarity with it and its history - measure it however you like and with however measures you like (number of posts in the forum in the time they've participated, certain number of contests participated in, etc), but I'd bet on pretty much every barometer you chose the likes of Rich, Pavel et al would come out on top. (I'm not saying I'd agree with m/any of the decisions Pavel would make, but he would at least bring something to the table and improve the decision-making process for being there to argue the case for/against a certain song.)

 

(I know there was a bit of doom-mongering over the prospect (which I can see, in fairness) but I even think if it were a case of the couple of people added to the process being voted on would deliver a fairly clear-cut decision. I can't exactly see someone like Rich for example being taken down by one or two of the younger lot deciding to vote for a friend. I'm not calling for a vote, I'm just saying it would probably be fairly obvious to most who would be the people who the process would probably be made all the better for by their inclusion.)

I basically go along with whatever the mods decide TBH. I was just expressing a level of surprise that it was in!

Plus, why the hell are we discussing the vetoing system again? We did all of this last month and we made changes to it. Just because some people disagree with one decision doesn't require all of us to go through the ENTIRE discussion again.

It came about naturally within the discussion and naturally as a result of people finding one of the decisions a little odd. As I said, just because it was just changed doesn't mean it can't be improved further in the future, nor should it be a reason for people to be discouraged from talking about it.

But if 12 posts is considered good feedback then surely anything that's even mentioned on this forum should be vetoed? I fail to see how a dead thread with a few people saying "I like this" is supposed be evidence that this song should be done with and thrown away. Also, people 'considering' it doesn't really help us during the process, as we haven't quite grasped the skill of mind-reading.

I did say right there that I wasn't going to suggest you were at fault for not knowing people had considered it! And I wasn't quite suggesting that the thread was per se a reason to veto it. The sheer amount of online hype for it remains the reason I think it should have been vetoed, and as I've said, fair enough if you didn't know, but that's how the discussion came about over whether widening the decision-making would be a good idea or not.

If anything, all this talk of it being a landslide winner is only harming 'I Love It's chances. I find that track decent at best and Semi 2 ALONE is choca-full of better songs and more deserving winners.

I honestly don't think having more people help with the decision making is going to improve the situation. Instances like this can arise whether there's 4 people deciding or 8 people deciding, after all you've got over 50 people here all with different opinions on what should and what shouldn't be allowed through. So even if 8 people were deciding, there'd still be the odd track that someone else who wasn't involved in discussions thinks shouldn't be allowed in, and then cue another one of these huge discussions about apparant wrong decision making.

 

A line needs to be drawn somewhere and for me, Icona Pop (and Faye actually, but I was out voted) were on the right side of that line.

I honestly don't think having more people help with the decision making is going to improve the situation. Instances like this can arise whether there's 4 people deciding or 8 people deciding, after all you've got over 50 people here all with different opinions on what should and what shouldn't be allowed through. So even if 8 people were deciding, there'd still be the odd track that someone else who wasn't involved in discussions thinks shouldn't be allowed in, and then cue another one of these huge discussions about apparant wrong decision making.

 

A line needs to be drawn somewhere and for me, Icona Pop (and Faye actually, but I was out voted) were on the right side of that line.

I see the point, but having 8 (I didn't call for a specific number per se before this gets picked up and run with) is more likely to be representative of the broader opinion than 4 though! As I said, it wouldn't be perfect, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be improved at all merely because it wouldn't be perfect. I think it'd be more likely to reduce the number of occurrences where there is disagreement - after all, 50 or so people all have different opinions but we're more than capable of having contests where the vetos are generally agreed upon.

Perhaps we need to formalise the role of the global mods within the process? Global mods are able to visit our mod forum whenever they like and are able to see what we were doing and discuss any points that they have with us. Perhaps if the final list had to be viewed by all (or a proportion of) global mods before the contest begins in earnest?

That may work... and the chances are that Mark and I would know of music from different blogs to most of the mods.

 

I have to say, I would have allowed Icona Pop also though - despite knowing it had some hype behind it. The fact it's had that much hype and yet so little interest on Buzzjack suggests to me that it's not quite the runaway winner that everyone is assuming.

 

It came about naturally within the discussion and naturally as a result of people finding one of the decisions a little odd. As I said, just because it was just changed doesn't mean it can't be improved further in the future, nor should it be a reason for people to be discouraged from talking about it.

 

We're not against improving it, but it's a little annoying to see this raising its head again a few weeks after we've changed the vetoing process (click here). To then suggest something that has been ruled out for now (and we've given our reasons why) and that is not really at all that different to what we now have in place at the moment isn't really that appealing. I think perhaps the Global Mods'/Admins' (Jester, RFC, Dandy*) opinions should extend to the whole confirmation list, and perhaps not just the mod's entries. But we've asked members a few times to send us their ideas for the contest, and nobody has. We posted the new veto rules and told members not to be discouraged after the heated debate. Nobody replied. And seeing as nobody replied or sent us suggestions then we kind of thought people were happy with the changes. If people have an issue, then please PM us. That goes for everybody.

 

All of this has come about because a few people thought a song should have been vetoed. If we had vetoed this song, then where would we stop? Anything that has been mentioned on the three main blogs and has a thread here should get the chop? Anything that may appeal to pop and indie voters and win should be vetoed because it's deemed 'obvious' by a select few? We're not here to censor people from music that they may already know. But whether there are 4 or 14 people on the vetoing panel, there will always be one entry that the others think should've been vetoed.

 

 

While my proper and full reply to the suggestion is still being written in another tab I will quickly say this:

 

 

As a moderator I act in the best interest of the contest. Despite some of my posts giving the impression that I am in this for the powah (some of which is my sense of humour) I really am not. Yes I am very passionate about this contest but that gives me the drive to make this contest better for everyone. That I have not changed in 30 contests nor will be changing. The mod team are open to suggestions and new ideas all the time.

 

 

I didn't veto Icona Pop because I haven't noticed the hype for it. As a rule of thumb mass internet hype and little Buzzjack love would lead to us leaning towards allowing an entry through. After all we are here to remove the things that you would hear easily without the contest and a tiny one page Buzzjack thread doesn't suggest to us that an overwhelming amount of people know the song prior to the contest. Yes, we do miss things occasionally. Icona Pop is not one of them.

pavels poor thread

I see the point, but having 8 (I didn't call for a specific number per se before this gets picked up and run with) is more likely to be representative of the broader opinion than 4 though! As I said, it wouldn't be perfect, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be improved at all merely because it wouldn't be perfect. I think it'd be more likely to reduce the number of occurrences where there is disagreement - after all, 50 or so people all have different opinions but we're more than capable of having contests where the vetos are generally agreed upon.

 

I see your point, but I do think the mod team is broad enough as it is really. We all have varying opinions on music, individually our tastes are broad, and we have varying opinions in general. We've got different personalities, backgrounds, even geographically we're broad! No matter how many of us there are, not everybody is going to be 100% satisfied with the outcome. Every contest there are comments like "Wow, surprised so and so got through", and the same will happen in every forthcoming contest regardless of who or how many people take part in discussions. As far as I can see, a similar number of people have generally agreed on the vetos this time round as in previous editions.

pavels poor thread

Oh this has NOTHING on some of the old arguments! :D Some of us have still got the scars from BJSC 14.

Oh this has NOTHING on some of the old arguments! :D Some of us have still got the scars from BJSC 14.

 

Seems like i went on hiatus at the right time!