Posted June 20, 201213 yr I think Jimmy Carr should lay off the 'tax avoidance' jibes for a while - at least until a bit of time has elapsed. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/ju...x-david-cameron http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebrityn...ed-by-HMRC.html In defence of Mark Owen - those hats don't pay for themselves! :lol: Kath Edited June 20, 201213 yr by Kath
June 20, 201213 yr Yeah but the biggest joke here is Cameron labelling someone else as morally wrong!
June 20, 201213 yr Author Yeah but the biggest joke here is Cameron labelling someone else as morally wrong! True! True! Especially as I read somewhere that the wealth of the Cameron's has largely been contributed to by such schemes (as I say - so I've read!) And for him to act as though these schemes are absolutely new to him is a bit ridiculous - proves either he's a liar (hmmm) or he's just plain stupid (another hmmmm). Anyway - don't know why I posted it now - they're all at it aren't they - celebrities from sport, tv, music, film - all of them. I do hope that none of them do any future things for 'charidee' as they know where they can stuff their requests. From now on my cash (apart from that paid to the Exchequer) stays firmly in my home! Sod charities - if millionaire celebrities can't be arsed ... why should I?
June 21, 201213 yr Yeah but the biggest joke here is Cameron labelling someone else as morally wrong! Yep, as big a case of "pot calling kettle black" as you could hope to find... Classic mis-direction this is, get people grumbling about "those bloody celebs" which takes the heat off their chums in the City and in the Corporate Boardrooms who are avoiding taxes to the levels that would make Take That and Jimmy Carr's avoidance seem positively paltry.. In the past couple of days we've had this, and we've had the statement from Danny Alexander saying that tax avoidance is the "moral equivalent" of benefit fraud... Good that finally someone says it, but are they actually going to make Tax Avoidance a criminal offence..? Are they going to close down offshore tax havens..? Are they going to prosecute crooked bankers and hedge fund managers who have been responsible for the biggest financial crimes in history..? I'm sorry, but Jimmy Carr is complete small-fry, and is clearly being offered up as a distraction to take our attention away from far bigger problems...
June 21, 201213 yr Yep, as big a case of "pot calling kettle black" as you could hope to find... Classic mis-direction this is, get people grumbling about "those bloody celebs" which takes the heat off their chums in the City and in the Corporate Boardrooms who are avoiding taxes to the levels that would make Take That and Jimmy Carr's avoidance seem positively paltry.. In the past couple of days we've had this, and we've had the statement from Danny Alexander saying that tax avoidance is the "moral equivalent" of benefit fraud... Good that finally someone says it, but are they actually going to make Tax Avoidance a criminal offence..? Are they going to close down offshore tax havens..? Are they going to prosecute crooked bankers and hedge fund managers who have been responsible for the biggest financial crimes in history..? I'm sorry, but Jimmy Carr is complete small-fry, and is clearly being offered up as a distraction to take our attention away from far bigger problems... This and the Michael Gove's leadership manife... I mean ridiculous thing where he wants to change GCSEs back to O Levels in the hope it'd 'raise standards' (they're definitely not 'too easy' anyway) are around at the moment to distract from the doctors striking today. We're not all fooled unfortunately.
June 21, 201213 yr Yep, as big a case of "pot calling kettle black" as you could hope to find... Classic mis-direction this is, get people grumbling about "those bloody celebs" which takes the heat off their chums in the City and in the Corporate Boardrooms who are avoiding taxes to the levels that would make Take That and Jimmy Carr's avoidance seem positively paltry.. In the past couple of days we've had this, and we've had the statement from Danny Alexander saying that tax avoidance is the "moral equivalent" of benefit fraud... Good that finally someone says it, but are they actually going to make Tax Avoidance a criminal offence..? Are they going to close down offshore tax havens..? Are they going to prosecute crooked bankers and hedge fund managers who have been responsible for the biggest financial crimes in history..? I'm sorry, but Jimmy Carr is complete small-fry, and is clearly being offered up as a distraction to take our attention away from far bigger problems... I see you're still playing your games of whataboutery whenever someone who's close to your own worldview get involved with illegal or suspect activities. If someone was in court for tax evasion and said "well I may have stolen £1 million from the taxpayer, but what about Mr X? He's stolen £10 million.You should jail him instead of me!", I wonder if the judge would let him off or stick him on the first wagon to Broadmoor? I see that Jimmy Carr has made the traditional "I'm very truly sorry for being caught" apology. It's going to be difficult for him, now that he'll have to bin about 30% of his material for fear of being labelled a hypocrite. Or maybe he'll play his whataboutery games as well?
June 21, 201213 yr In the past couple of days we've had this, and we've had the statement from Danny Alexander saying that tax avoidance is the "moral equivalent" of benefit fraud... Good that finally someone says it, but are they actually going to make Tax Avoidance a criminal offence..? It's hardly that simple given there's a variety of different methods and the tax avoiders will always be one step ahead of the law.
June 21, 201213 yr It's hardly that simple given there's a variety of different methods and the tax avoiders will always be one step ahead of the law. Exactly, covenants will tax and the rich will avoid, centuries have taught us this. Cameron may very well be on shaky ground here but the more he ramps up the stakes the more victims there will be in his own party (actually extend that to politicians in general) so it's all good really !
June 21, 201213 yr Making tax avoidance illegal would mean abolishing ISAs and ending tax relief on pension contributions. Of course there are plenty of tax-avoidance schemes far less legitimate than ISAs and it is time a government started tackling them but simply saying all tax avoidance should be illegal is just a cheap slogan.
June 21, 201213 yr It's hardly that simple given there's a variety of different methods and the tax avoiders will always be one step ahead of the law. Very true although Gideon has threatened to make retrospective changes so that the tax avoided can still be collected. Whether he's checked that one with the lawyers is another matter.
June 21, 201213 yr I see you're still playing your games of whataboutery whenever someone who's close to your own worldview get involved with illegal or suspect activities. Take That are close to my worldview.....?? :lol: :lol: Yeah, okay, whatever.... Too bad you cant see this for the blatant mis-direction it is... Perhaps David Sca-Moron should look a bit closer to home when it comes to amassing fortunes built on exploiting tax-havens before presuming to lecture others on the subject, I mean, it's not as if none of us can do a Google search and find the facts..... :rolleyes: Besides you, like many others, seem to be in somewhat of a confusion as to the difference between Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion.. Carr and TT were never accused of evasion, so the point you make is a completely moot one, and why on earth would someone be sent to Broadmoor (a high security psychiatric prison) for tax evasion...? I mean, yes, they might be wrong, but it doesn't mean they're necessarily psychopathic....
June 21, 201213 yr Too bad you cant see this for the blatant mis-direction it is... Perhaps David Sca-Moron should look a bit closer to home when it comes to amassing fortunes built on exploiting tax-havens before presuming to lecture others on the subject, I mean, it's not as if none of us can do a Google search and find the facts..... :rolleyes: Just for clarification, are you in support of Jimmy Carr's tax avoidance schemes? Because the impression you are giving is that it's fine to do so as long as it's not done by a Tory member. And please no whataboutery in your response. a Yes or a No will suffice.
June 21, 201213 yr Just for clarification, are you in support of Jimmy Carr's tax avoidance schemes? Because the impression you are giving is that it's fine to do so as long as it's not done by a Tory member. And please no whataboutery in your response. a Yes or a No will suffice. No, I'm not in support of the K2 avoidance scheme, but it's not "Jimmy Carr's scheme" at all, he didn't set it up all up.. I doubt he's that clever....
June 21, 201213 yr I'm quite sympathetic to Jimmy Carr, he's been vilified for something that he's only a small part of. The money he put in the scheme was less than 2% of the total put through it, it was less than 1% of what Vodafone got off with. Cameron gets more pathetic by the day, quite happy to comment on Jimmy Carr but wouldn't on Philip Green and I see no comment on his Tory buddy Gary Barlow... Ultimately he's guilty of nothing. Misguided perhaps, and yes it probably is morally wrong, but if HMRC know everything about it then it's hard to show any support for them. In reality yes I feel it's wrong and sitting here on the job that pays less of my student loan off each month than the interest is added, it's quite easy to say I wouldn't partake in such a scheme but let's face it, if it was actual money I earned and a financial advisor I knew told me "that £150k you just paid in income tax, I can turn it in to £3.5k. It's perfectly legal and HMRC are fully aware of it" then yeah, I'd probably find it hard to say no to! Also, how come whenever someone has paid less tax than they should've, it's always dying children or the freezing elderly that they're not paying for, rather than illegal foreign wars or government snooping?
June 21, 201213 yr I'm quite sympathetic to Jimmy Carr, he's been vilified for something that he's only a small part of. The money he put in the scheme was less than 2% of the total put through it, it was less than 1% of what Vodafone got off with. Cameron gets more pathetic by the day, quite happy to comment on Jimmy Carr but wouldn't on Philip Green and I see no comment on his Tory buddy Gary Barlow... Ultimately he's guilty of nothing. Misguided perhaps, and yes it probably is morally wrong, but if HMRC know everything about it then it's hard to show any support for them. Precisely, the HMRC signed off on this, so, surely they should be answering far more probing questions about all this than Jimmy Carr, such as "why did you allow this to happen, you bunch of tw@ts?"... Mind you, Dippy Hartnett of the HMRC also let off Goldman Sachs with £10m in unpaid tax as well.. Which is now currently under Judicial Review after a case being brought by UK Uncut.... Of course, not that THAT gets anything like as much press coverage as Jimmy Carr's "misdemeanours".....
June 21, 201213 yr Author Got to bring a touch of jollity (is there such a word?) to proceedings. From Left Foot Foward. I love some of the twitter comments. http://www.leftfootforward.org/2012/06/dav...-tax-avoidance/ So, Mr Cameron, are Tory boys Philip Green and Gary Barlow “morally wrong” as well? David Cameron is feeling the the tax dodging heat today, facing charges of hypocrisy over his failure to condemn celeb Tory Gary Barlow’s tax avoidance, having last night laid into non-tory Jimmy Carr's tax arrangements. Asked by ITN’s Tom Bradby if he thought Barlow’s “tax affairs were morally wrong and should he give back his OBE”, the prime minister passed up the chance to censure his Tory chum, dodging the tax dodging question by saying he would not give a “running commentary on different people’s tax affairs” as “that would not be right”. By which he means ‘I’ll give a commentary on lefty Jimmy Carr, but not my mate Gary Barlow’. The Tory leader’s lack of consisteny was mocked on Twitter – with people also pointing to Tory tax-dodger-in-chief Sir Philip Green: “Jimmy Carr,Lord Ashcroft,Vodafone,Goldman Sachs,Gary Barlow, I wonder which one doesn’t back tories?” – Jim Macred “Trying to dismantle the career of Jimmy Carr while not mentioning Gary Barlow speaks volumes about the schoolboy running our country.” – Coffee Punk “PM now refusing equal criticism of Gary Barlow over tax avoidance after railing against Jimmy Carr. Is it because Barlow is a Tory?” – Sunny Hundal “Utterly spineless from Cameron. Jimmy Carr is “morally wrong”, but on Tory donor Gary Barlow? No comment. Pathetic.” – Marcus Dysch “So Cameron has a lot to say about Jimmy Carr but nothing about his mate and Tory boy Gary Barlow. Disgraceful hypocrisy.” – Gavin Callaghan “pm not willing to do a jimmy carr on gary barlow. think he may regret having done a jimmy carr on jimmy carr actually…” – Joey Jones “In the Commons Labour question why the PM picked out Jimmy Carr & not “Conservative supporter” Gary Barlow: Watch live bbc.in/eyvA0m” – BBC Politics “Angela Eagle asking about tax avoidance. Why is Jimmy Carr immoral but Gary Barlow gets an OBE and Philip Green gets a knighthood and a job?” – MD “You are morally wrong @jimmycarr but Philip Green, Gary Barlow, Lord Ashcroft morally right – they’re Tories. #toffshore” – Dave Cameroon “Dave quick to kick Jimmy Carr (allegedly a leftie, allegedly a comic) over tax but not Gary Barlow (certainly a Tory, allegedly a singer)” – Kevin Mitchell “Tory, Gary Barlow, still off the radar for avoiding far, far more tax than Jimmy Carr in an identical scheme. Funny that.” – Paul Lewis “It’s amazing how Jimmy Carr get his balls chewed off by Prime Minister while Princess Gary Barlow doesn’t even get a mention.” – Coffee Punk “It appears Cameron has got himself into a right pickle!Hes thought oh lets ‘go for’ lefty Jimmy Carr but then ooops Tory Gary Barlow pops up” – Ian “Cameron says Jimmy Carr’s tax affairs are “morally wrong” – but he hasn’t had time to look into allegations against Gary Barlow (OBE)” – Polly Curtis “If Cameron is singling out Jimmy Carr, will he throw same accusation at Gary Barlow? No? Funny that. Could it be that Barlow is a Tory?” – Chris Nicholson Of course it’s not just Barlow and Green, there’s Ashcroft, Osborne, Mitchell, Hammond…
June 21, 201213 yr Author And apparently Gary's a bit cheesed off at Jimmy apologising! Yes I know its a joke post - but you just have to laugh at these things else you'd go mad. Lets face it - unless we can all afford expensive lawyers to find us tax-avoiding schemes - then the only thing you can do is laugh. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/06/21..._n_1615026.html Here's a nice picture of Gary at the piano in his practice room. http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/2/11/1328982368392/Diamond-Jubilee-Concert-001.jpg
June 21, 201213 yr It just shows once again that Cameron isn't very bright. It was obvious that, as soon as he laid into Jimmy Carr, people would look for Tory supporters who were a little reluctant to pay their taxes. And, sure enough, the Times already had a Tory lined up to fit the bill. It's also provided an opportunity for people to recycle the story about Cameron's late father's tax avoidance schemes, Philip Green, Michael Ashcroft etc. There was a piece I read today about the amount of tax paid by billionaires in this country. In 2006 there were 50 or so billionaires. James Dyson (of vacuum cleaner fame) paid over 60% of the total tax paid by billionaires. Just imagine how much of a dent it would have made in the deficit if all the others had followed his example. It is generally assumed that J K Rowling (who I assume wasn't a billionaire in 2006) also pays tax on all her earnings so the proportion paid by Dyson will have fallen. Even so, those two between them probably pay mare tax than all the other UK billionaires put together.
June 21, 201213 yr Author It just shows once again that Cameron isn't very bright. It was obvious that, as soon as he laid into Jimmy Carr, people would look for Tory supporters who were a little reluctant to pay their taxes. And, sure enough, the Times already had a Tory lined up to fit the bill. It's also provided an opportunity for people to recycle the story about Cameron's late father's tax avoidance schemes, Philip Green, Michael Ashcroft etc. There was a piece I read today about the amount of tax paid by billionaires in this country. In 2006 there were 50 or so billionaires. James Dyson (of vacuum cleaner fame) paid over 60% of the total tax paid by billionaires. Just imagine how much of a dent it would have made in the deficit if all the others had followed his example. It is generally assumed that J K Rowling (who I assume wasn't a billionaire in 2006) also pays tax on all her earnings so the proportion paid by Dyson will have fallen. Even so, those two between them probably pay mare tax than all the other UK billionaires put together. Its a nice picture of Gary though isn't it?
June 21, 201213 yr I like those tweets but my favourite is from @chessmartinez "Instead of slamming Carr, Cameron could close the f***ing tax loopholes! He's acting like he has no power. Who does he think he is - Clegg?!"
Create an account or sign in to comment