This as always is not a black and white issue.

 

I agree in the main "rich" people tended to like Thatcher but its by no means exclusive. My family were very "working class" and my Dad was unemployed for many years under her reign but he admired her strength greatly and her "Lady is not for turning" attitude.

 

Frankly I prefer someone who sticks to what they believe in even if I disagree with it, than the MP's of today who change their mind at the drop of a hat when some group or other gets offended by their view. I didn't agree with much of what she did but like most Political parties now there isn't one that I agree with entirely. I don't think things are that black and white. Also as someone has previously mentioned, young people nowadays who vote for the same party as their father etc etc just because of class need to think outside the box a bit more and actually look at the issues.

 

I don't like politics of envy and I have no problem with someone who makes something of themselves and gets rich. The vulnerable need looking after yes, but people need to help themselves also and take some personal responsibility. I was made redundant recently after almost 18 years but I don't see that as the governments fault, I had to look for another job, its the way of the world. There is no such thing as jobs for life and why would you keep an industry going in its not making money? Times Change.

 

I guess what I'm saying is people STILL blaming Mrs Thatcher for their woes so many years later really shouldn't be. Its not her fault if you choose to have kids that you can't afford to keep etc and expect the taxpayer to pay for them. One of many examples of a society we live in where no one seems to be responsible and others have to pick up that tab.

 

I won't lose any sleep over her passing but I think some of what I have read on social network sites is absolutely disgusting and says more about the people posting it than it did about her.

Let's be fair, the communities hardest hit by Thatcher's govenrment (specifically mining communities) were always doomed. In the '80s the mining industry was subsidised to the tune of hundreds of millions. In today's money that's into the billions. That was never sustainable and there was no point in pumping money into it. Although I would no doubt have felt differently if I was alive at the time and hailed from a mining community, the strikes were obnoxious and ill-advised. They made an enemy of one of the most bloody minded and fiercely determined politicians on the planet. That those communities were doomed to fall apart is not Thatcher's fault, industy was dying anyway. Unlike some, Thatcher wasn't in denial about that.

 

 

Doomed communities? If that was true then why didnt we just let the doomed banks all go under? We are subsidising rich banker morons to the tune of an absolute multi-billion fortune. The money we owe to save them makes the mining industry (and all of the other now-dead industries) look like an absolute bargain in comparison. Not to mention the absolute fortune we pay the energy companies and Russia to stay warm over the winter now.

 

What really galled is that Thatcher promised to only close a few very unprofitable mines, then when she'd destroyed the unions she closed the lot just to rub it in.

 

On a side note, she was the most unpopular PM of all-time and doomed to lose the next election - until the Falklands. Guess who decided to withdraw our naval ship (protecting the Falklands from Argentina rhetoric for years) just as the junta there got particularly snarky and belligerent? Yes, Thatcher. Previous governments had managed to avoid war. Funny that leaders who go to wars (as long as they are short) are seen as somehow "great". Almost as if she knew....

 

 

Doomed communities? If that was true then why didnt we just let the doomed banks all go under? We are subsidising rich banker morons to the tune of an absolute multi-billion fortune. The money we owe to save them makes the mining industry (and all of the other now-dead industries) look like an absolute bargain in comparison. Not to mention the absolute fortune we pay the energy companies and Russia to stay warm over the winter now.

 

What really galled is that Thatcher promised to only close a few very unprofitable mines, then when she'd destroyed the unions she closed the lot just to rub it in.

 

On a side note, she was the most unpopular PM of all-time and doomed to lose the next election - until the Falklands. Guess who decided to withdraw our naval ship (protecting the Falklands from Argentina rhetoric for years) just as the junta there got particularly snarky and belligerent? Yes, Thatcher. Previous governments had managed to avoid war. Funny that leaders who go to wars (as long as they are short) are seen as somehow "great". Almost as if she knew....

The Faulklands war was far from a surefire thing and the history books show that there are several instances where the war could have turned, so if, as you imply, she used it as a strategy to ensure another election victory, then it was certainly a high risk strategy. Surely easier to let go of the restraints on the public purse and let money flow into the economy and bloat the public sector, or the Brown/ Blair strategy as it later became known.

This as always is not a black and white issue.

 

I agree in the main "rich" people tended to like Thatcher but its by no means exclusive. My family were very "working class" and my Dad was unemployed for many years under her reign but he admired her strength greatly and her "Lady is not for turning" attitude.

 

Frankly I prefer someone who sticks to what they believe in even if I disagree with it, than the MP's of today who change their mind at the drop of a hat when some group or other gets offended by their view. I didn't agree with much of what she did but like most Political parties now there isn't one that I agree with entirely. I don't think things are that black and white. Also as someone has previously mentioned, young people nowadays who vote for the same party as their father etc etc just because of class need to think outside the box a bit more and actually look at the issues.

 

I don't like politics of envy and I have no problem with someone who makes something of themselves and gets rich. The vulnerable need looking after yes, but people need to help themselves also and take some personal responsibility. I was made redundant recently after almost 18 years but I don't see that as the governments fault, I had to look for another job, its the way of the world. There is no such thing as jobs for life and why would you keep an industry going in its not making money? Times Change.

 

I guess what I'm saying is people STILL blaming Mrs Thatcher for their woes so many years later really shouldn't be. Its not her fault if you choose to have kids that you can't afford to keep etc and expect the taxpayer to pay for them. One of many examples of a society we live in where no one seems to be responsible and others have to pick up that tab.

 

I won't lose any sleep over her passing but I think some of what I have read on social network sites is absolutely disgusting and says more about the people posting it than it did about her.

Oh and incidentally THIS! :D

 

My parents were also working class, came from Scotland and had to move to move south to England to find employment, bought their council house thanks to Thatcher and even bought some shares in the privatisation whilst all the time being labour supporters and calling her all the names under the sun. I suspect they weren't the only ones- and probably some of the same people who are being so derogatory now, my mother admitted in much later years that without that break she probably would never have been able to buy a house, they now have a fair better legacy to leave to their children.

Well she lived just shy of two years less than I expected her to...

 

The one thing that's really boiled my piss in the last two days is people who immediately dismiss the opinions and actions of anyone young because they weren't alive during some or all of her reign as PM so they didn't experience it themselves. Can people not learn, is knowledge of history not a thing. Does this mean anyone under the age of 70 isn't allowed to think that Hitler might not have been a very nice man, or anyone under 50 not able to think that The Beatles weren't bad.

The one thing that's really boiled my piss in the last two days is people who immediately dismiss the opinions and actions of anyone young because they weren't alive during some or all of her reign as PM so they didn't experience it themselves. Can people not learn, is knowledge of history not a thing. Does this mean anyone under the age of 70 isn't allowed to think that Hitler might not have been a very nice man, or anyone under 50 not able to think that The Beatles weren't bad.

 

This is EXACTLY why I was just coming in here to say.

 

"I feel quite worthy to dismiss Hitler because I've studied some of the bad and good things that he did. And I feel as if everyone in this country who has been taught about Hitler are worthy to dismiss him as well. But we weren't around when he was ruling Germany, so we can't!"

 

You never hear anyone saying this. Why should it be different for Thatcher?

Thatcher changed society forever. Thanks to her British society is a now a very much more selfish one than it was 35 years ago; driven only by profit and corruption - all with one aim - as long as you're doing alright who cares about anybody else?

 

Saved the country? Nope, she screwed up the housing market which is why many young people will never be able to afford to buy a house. The trains in this country are a complete mess because they are now supposed to make a profit rather than providing a service and gas prices have never been any higher. Prices keep going up, but the rich are ok, so frankly nothing will be done about it.

 

Frankly am already fed up with the endless praise and press coverage. I feel sorry for her family and close ones, and do not wish ill upon her, but great Britain she was not.

Thatcher changed society forever. Thanks to her British society is a now a very much more selfish one than it was 35 years ago; driven only by profit and corruption - all with one aim - as long as you're doing alright who cares about anybody else?

 

Saved the country? Nope, she screwed up the housing market which is why many young people will never be able to afford to buy a house. The trains in this country are a complete mess because they are now supposed to make a profit rather than providing a service and gas prices have never been any higher. Prices keep going up, but the rich are ok, so frankly nothing will be done about it.

 

Frankly am already fed up with the endless praise and press coverage. I feel sorry for her family and close ones, and do not wish ill upon her, but great Britain she was not.

 

AH.

 

The viewing figures for the tributes to Thatcher were less than 3 million last night. That's not very high for a former Prime Minister, which shows that the media are not in touch with what the public really want.

Well she lived just shy of two years less than I expected her to...

 

The one thing that's really boiled my piss in the last two days is people who immediately dismiss the opinions and actions of anyone young because they weren't alive during some or all of her reign as PM so they didn't experience it themselves. Can people not learn, is knowledge of history not a thing. Does this mean anyone under the age of 70 isn't allowed to think that Hitler might not have been a very nice man, or anyone under 50 not able to think that The Beatles weren't bad.

I don't think people are saying that you can't have an opinion. However, there are clearly some people who couldn't actually explain why they despise her. Equally clearly there are plenty of people of your age group who have read enough and heard enough to form an opinion.

Arthur Scargill proved to be one of her greatest allies. Central Casting would have found it hard to come up with a union leader easier to turn into a hate figure.

 

The phrase "holding the country to ransom" has often been thrown at the unions. Somehow it is used less often against latge companies etc. who threaten to leave the country whenever it is suggested that they might, perhaps, like to pay a bit of tax.

 

Some of her union legislation was justified. No mainstream party is likely to suggest abolishing the need for a strike ballot. However, it was very one-sided. For example, she abolished the closed shop but it remains possible for an employer to ban unions.

Precisely, Scargill's rashness wasn't a licence for her to wreak havoc in the way she did.

AH.

 

The viewing figures for the tributes to Thatcher were less than 3 million last night. That's not very high for a former Prime Minister, which shows that the media are not in touch with what the public really want.

I anticipate a P4 one page tribute to poor John Major upon his death and a mention on BBC news just before the weather :(

Precisely, Scargill's rashness wasn't a licence for her to wreak havoc in the way she did.

Even Neil Kinnock on last night's "Newsnight" said that Scargill had a significant contribution to the demise of the mining communities and that his "all or nothing" attitude made her increasingly intransigent on the matter. It's convenient to lay ALL the blame at her door but the truth is much less one sided.

^^^ Actually I think most of the people who downloaded 'The Witch is Dead' can't explain their sheep despise of her. But that's no different to most of the social "views" anywhere. People like to be sheep somehow, I sometimes even wonder why we don't bleat.

 

Interesting to point out that most of you here are very critical to her, I'd say 70% are counter, 30% are pro. We were at work discussing her death yesterday and there was no bad word about her, just the praise of how strong and charismatic lady she was. There you go - we didn't live in what you lived + different preferences in national leaders!

I don't like politics of envy and I have no problem with someone who makes something of themselves and gets rich. The vulnerable need looking after yes, but people need to help themselves also and take some personal responsibility. I was made redundant recently after almost 18 years but I don't see that as the governments fault, I had to look for another job, its the way of the world. There is no such thing as jobs for life and why would you keep an industry going in its not making money? Times Change.

There's a big difference between the likes of James Dyson who has something tangible he can point to as an achievement and senior executives who award themselves massive pay rises every year regardless of the performance of their company and then go on to award themselves massive bonuses as well. Before Thatcher came to power, senior executives justified their large salaries (which were tiny by today's standards) by pointing to the top rate of tax of 83%. What happened when the top tax rate was cut to 60%? They awarded themselves huge pay rises. They did the same when the rate was cut from 60% to 40%. Yes, it is true that, to some extent they had previously rewarded themselves in different ways that allowed them to avoid tax. However, they didn't give up those extras when they increased their salary.

 

The ratio between pay at the top of a company and the bottom was around ten to one in the late 70s. Now it is more like 100 to one.

I anticipate a P4 one page tribute to poor John Major upon his death and a mention on BBC news just before the weather :(

Well, Jim Callaghan didn't get much more than that.

^^^ Actually I think most of the people who downloaded 'The Witch is Dead' can't explain their sheep despise of her. But that's no different to most of the social "views" anywhere. People like to be sheep somehow, I sometimes even wonder why we don't bleat.

 

Interesting to point out that most of you here are very critical to her, I'd say 70% are counter, 30% are pro. We were at work discussing her death yesterday and there was no bad word about her, just the praise of how strong and charismatic lady she was. There you go - we didn't live in what you lived + different preferences in national leaders!

I wouldn't decsribe her as particularly charismatic. And did nobody suggest that Stalin, Lenin and Brezhnev were strong leaders as well?

I find any comparison with Stalin et al quite ludicrous and find it difficult to take seriously anybody making that argument. Let's compare like for like, rather than a divisive leader without an evil dictator. I think she is best compared to Reagan. Similar policies, ideologies and leadership ability.

 

What makes me really angry is that people have so much loathing for Thatcher, but no doubt when Blair dies he will be remembered as a hero rather than the outrageous bullshitter of a war criminal he is. Whatever you thought about Thatcher, at least she was open and honest about her intentions. That Blair deliberately deceived us into going to war and is still profiting from that deceit, making millions from giving talks around the world, makes me quite ill. But the sheep-like public can only make simple associations like "right wing = evil" and "left = jolly lovely". I probably sound very right wing myself now. I'm not. I just loathe Blair and think for people to condemn Thatcher as the worst PM ever, when her (perceived) crimes have nothing on Tony's, is infuriating.

 

I don't think that Tony Blair will be remembered as a hero after what he did. He will provoke less outrage though because less people in this country were affected by what he did than what Margaret Thatcher did.

Oh and incidentally THIS! :D

 

My parents were also working class, came from Scotland and had to move to move south to England to find employment, bought their council house thanks to Thatcher and even bought some shares in the privatisation whilst all the time being labour supporters and calling her all the names under the sun. I suspect they weren't the only ones- and probably some of the same people who are being so derogatory now, my mother admitted in much later years that without that break she probably would never have been able to buy a house, they now have a fair better legacy to leave to their children.

 

Yes exactly! There is nothing wrong with taking advantage of that opportunity. I came from a family of Del boys who took everything they could from the system, refused to work and I had hand me downs and sometimes nothing to eat. At 20, I bought my first home after working for two years with my future husband. I was earning 6.000 at the time and him not much more. If I could do that, on my low wage, I fail to see how Thatcher was responsible for people not being able to buy homes etc. Now I own my own house and I'm a single parent working full time to keep it. I get sick of people blaming others for everything they don't have. Now its an old lady who was ousted over 20 years ago! I'm not saying everyone can find the job they want but choices can be made by the individual that can prevent more pain. Economics can dictate but its a joint responsibility. It annoys me that someone like me is classified with the "haves" when its still a struggle to pay the bills etc and all I hear is about the so called less well off who don't work for years and get their bills paid and when they are asked to take some responsibility, we are told they are hitting the "vulnerable".

 

The latest "forcing people to live on £53 a week" headline was testament to the above and how things are twisted to suit an agenda.

 

Sorry its that's a little off topic.

Edited April 9, 201312 yr by torresgirl

What makes me really angry is that people have so much loathing for Thatcher, but no doubt when Blair dies he will be remembered as a hero rather than the outrageous bullshitter of a war criminal he is. Whatever you thought about Thatcher, at least she was open and honest about her intentions. That Blair deliberately deceived us into going to war and is still profiting from that deceit, making millions from giving talks around the world, makes me quite ill. But the sheep-like public can only make simple associations like "right wing = evil" and "left = jolly lovely". I probably sound very right wing myself now. I'm not. I just loathe Blair and think for people to condemn Thatcher as the worst PM ever, when her (perceived) crimes have nothing on Tony's, is infuriating.

 

I don't think Blair will be remembered as a hero somehow. :lol: He will always be associated with the illegal war on Iraq, and the mysterious death of Dr David Kelly.

 

Plus Blair is the PM most similar to Thatcher in that he was a strong and determined leader with a clear view of what he wanted to achieve.