Another one for Tyron's £1 pot but my aunt bought a house in Hertfordshire in the mid 1970's, by her estimation and recent sales in her street the value of her property has gone up x17 in the time she has owned it, 1700% in 39 or something years

 

Point me to where else she could have got that sort of return for her investment

You really can't get your head around the fact that not everyone owns property, can you?

You really can't get your head around the fact that not everyone owns property, can you?

 

She bought her house for around 45k she said, houses in that street now sell for upwards of 850k

 

I used her as an example that buying a house is a great 'long term' investment, sure there will be temporary slumps but people getting on the property ladder today will make serious money in 30 odd years time just like my aunt did when she bought her house (which she still lives in)

She bought her house for around 45k she said, houses in that street now sell for upwards of 850k

 

I used her as an example that buying a house is a great 'long term' investment, sure there will be temporary slumps but people getting on the property ladder today will make serious money in 30 odd years time just like my aunt did when she bought her house (which she still lives in)

That's not what I was asking.

 

What happens to the people who can't get on the ladder?

That's not what I was asking.

 

What happens to the people who can't get on the ladder?

 

Do what it takes, longer shifts at work, less socialising, evening classes to better their job prospects, work hard and get promotions and pay rises or a combination of those, do what it takes to get the money to get that deposit to eventually end up on the housing ladder

 

Renting is a mugs game, money down the drain, in many cases people are paying more in rent than they would by getting a mortgage

Do what it takes, longer shifts at work, less socialising, evening classes to better their job prospects, work hard and get promotions and pay rises or a combination of those, do what it takes to get the money to get that deposit to eventually end up on the housing ladder

 

Renting is a mugs game, money down the drain, in many cases people are paying more in rent than they would by getting a mortgage

I'm so glad I don't live in your idea of this country.

 

Oh wait, it appears I do. Alright for you and I, bum deal for many.

...and handing over hundreds in mortgage repayments.

I'm so sorry.

Have you ever been to East Grinstead?

I'm so glad I don't live in your idea of this country.

 

Oh wait, it appears I do. Alright for you and I, bum deal for many.

 

Its physically impossible to get everyone onto the housing ladder, unachieveable by any nation in the world, some people are just destined never to own their own property

 

But with stuff like Right To Buy giving council house tenants the right to buy their property and Osborne's mortgage guarantee scheme home ownership is far more achieveable than it would be without the schemes

Edited October 30, 201311 yr by Sandro Ranieri

Its physically impossible to get everyone onto the housing ladder, unachieveable by any nation in the world, some people are just destined never to own their own property

 

But with stuff like Right To Buy giving council house tenants the right to buy their property and Osborne's mortgage guarantee scheme home ownership is far more achieveable than it would be without the schemes

Would you like to explain why the UK is the only country to have this obsession with home ownership? To take one example, the level of home ownership in Germany is lower than in the UK. They seem to be doing pretty well at the moment.

Have you ever been to East Grinstead?

I'm "doing a Craig" and assuming I know what it's like because I know someone from there. He certainly seems scarred by something.

Would you like to explain why the UK is the only country to have this obsession with home ownership? To take one example, the level of home ownership in Germany is lower than in the UK. They seem to be doing pretty well at the moment.

 

Germany has had far different issues like integration with the old East Germany, half of what is now Germany was a couple of decades ago a communist state where there was no real ambition or right to own property under Honecker so half the German population were bought up under communism so its a different mindset

 

I would say we are closest in attitude to America where home ownership is a real ambition for most

Germany has had far different issues like integration with the old East Germany, half of what is now Germany was a couple of decades ago a communist state where there was no real ambition or right to own property under Honecker so half the German population were bought up under communism so its a different mindset

 

I would say we are closest in attitude to America where home ownership is a real ambition for most

Oh dear, you really do struggle to understand the real world don't you? The former West Germany has managed to absorb the basket case that was East Germany and remain a strong economy. Home ownership has never been as big an issue in Germany as it has become in the UK. Most people are just satisfied with having somewhere affordable to live,

Oh dear, you really do struggle to understand the real world don't you? The former West Germany has managed to absorb the basket case that was East Germany and remain a strong economy. Home ownership has never been as big an issue in Germany as it has become in the UK. Most people are just satisfied with having somewhere affordable to live,

 

You misunderstood what i meant

 

The East Germans of now united Germany were bought up under communism, i doubt home ownership was even allowed under Honecker so half the current united German population never had the ambition to own their own home thanks to communism, kids saw their parents working in the fields or whatever communists get up to, so they are decades behind the rest of the west in their mindset

 

home ownership among the old West Germans i would imagine is comparable to Britain

Edited October 30, 201311 yr by Sandro Ranieri

home ownership among the old West Germans i would imagine is comparable to Britain

It's really, really not. Same story in the Netherlands, ten and twenty year leases aren't uncommon.

It's really, really not. Same story in the Netherlands, ten and twenty year leases aren't uncommon.

 

Aah didn't know that

 

But I do think as a country we share DNA with America far more than any other nation even though we are a part of Europe

 

Most of our culture comes from America - music, tv, most brands, celebrity culture, compensation culture

 

Our friends across the pond have home ownership hardwired into them like is the case in the UK

What amazes me is Osbourne's complete lack of awareness of what caused the 2007 crash (overstretched lending and unsustainable debt) in encouraging loads of young people to take out absolutely huge mortgages, when compared to a multiple of their current income, and as a result artificially pump up house prices and price FTB even further out of the market come the next generation. Real prices, thats discounting inflation and prices as a ratio from average earnings cannot be stretched any higher and in doing so only accelerates the likelihood of a crash. Interest rates wouldn't need to increase much to actually cause many to default on their mortgages and all kinds of mayhem with spending budgets for families already stretched.

 

Going back to Craig's point about houses being an investment, for most people it is a place simply to live not an investment.

 

Help To (Buy) Sell is one of the most idiotic and damaging policies of our time - and all to help the Tories win an election.

 

Desperate.

What amazes me is Osbourne's complete lack of awareness of what caused the 2007 crash (overstretched lending and unsustainable debt) in encouraging loads of young people to take out absolutely huge mortgages, when compared to a multiple of their current income, and as a result artificially pump up house prices and price FTB even further out of the market come the next generation. Real prices, thats discounting inflation and prices as a ratio from average earnings cannot be stretched any higher and in doing so only accelerates the likelihood of a crash. Interest rates wouldn't need to increase much to actually cause many to default on their mortgages and all kinds of mayhem with spending budgets for families already stretched.

 

Going back to Craig's point about houses being an investment, for most people it is a place simply to live not an investment.

 

Help To (Buy) Sell is one of the most idiotic and damaging policies of our time - and all to help the Tories win an election.

 

Desperate.

 

It is up to people to live within their means and be responsible with money, if they are not then tough

 

Someone taking out a mortgage should not just save for the deposit but save a further 6 months payment as back up for a 'rainy day'

Another one for Tyron's £1 pot but my aunt bought a house in Hertfordshire in the mid 1970's, by her estimation and recent sales in her street the value of her property has gone up x17 in the time she has owned it, 1700% in 39 or something years

 

Point me to where else she could have got that sort of return for her investment

 

assuming that's relative to income, fine, but houses were very expensive relative to income in the 70's and mortgage approvals were sensible and 3.5 times salary and affordable over the long term. In terms of property panicking, most of my friends in their 20's were trapped into negative equity for 15 years and eventually sold at a loss, having jumped on the "buy one quick before they are too expensive to buy" panic-boom that is sounding very familiar right now to 1989. So they ended up stuck in a pokey flat for 15 years. Conversely friends who bought in 1997 are now laughing at having a mortgage that is a token amount. The key is to buy at the right time. Now is not the right time. Interest rates MUST go up because they can't go any lower from these freakishly and freakishly prolongued low rates. Anyone who's worked out they can afford payments based on current rates is going to be in trouble. The only reason house-owners havent defaulted already is due to banks not wanting to cash-in on houses which are still in negative equity and extensions instead causing them to lose even more cash than they already have. Not out of the charitable goodness of their cold dead hearts.

 

I'm warmed, however, by the vast sums JPMorgan is being fined at the mo: in case anyone is not aware, the entire world economy devastation was essentially dreamed-up by yuppies working for them (in London, I think). Selling-on crap to idiots, I think it was (also known as bankers). They jumped out of the scam 2 years before it all crashed down horribly around everyone's heads and made a killing out the rotting corpses of more stupid banks. Allegedly, according to Estates Gazette a few years back.

 

Thanks Jamie!

 

 

 

assuming that's relative to income, fine, but houses were very expensive relative to income in the 70's and mortgage approvals were sensible and 3.5 times salary and affordable over the long term. In terms of property panicking, most of my friends in their 20's were trapped into negative equity for 15 years and eventually sold at a loss, having jumped on the "buy one quick before they are too expensive to buy" panic-boom that is sounding very familiar right now to 1989. So they ended up stuck in a pokey flat for 15 years. Conversely friends who bought in 1997 are now laughing at having a mortgage that is a token amount. The key is to buy at the right time. Now is not the right time. Interest rates MUST go up because they can't go any lower from these freakishly and freakishly prolongued low rates. Anyone who's worked out they can afford payments based on current rates is going to be in trouble. The only reason house-owners havent defaulted already is due to banks not wanting to cash-in on houses which are still in negative equity and extensions instead causing them to lose even more cash than they already have. Not out of the charitable goodness of their cold dead hearts.

 

I'm warmed, however, by the vast sums JPMorgan is being fined at the mo: in case anyone is not aware, the entire world economy devastation was essentially dreamed-up by yuppies working for them (in London, I think). Selling-on crap to idiots, I think it was (also known as bankers). They jumped out of the scam 2 years before it all crashed down horribly around everyone's heads and made a killing out the rotting corpses of more stupid banks. Allegedly, according to Estates Gazette a few years back.

 

Thanks Jamie!

 

I think Steve Jobs said the following and I totally agree with him

 

"it is better to aim high and fail than not aim at all and succeed"

 

Sums up my thoughts on your post too

 

It is better to give something a great shot and if it doesn't work out at least you were brave enough and ballsy enough to give it a go, and far more worthy of respect than someone who didn't take a chance and did nothing

Do not bring Steve Jobs into this debate - he was a brilliant and forward thinking man.

 

George Osbourne couldn't see a brick wall if it was right in front of him. And he doesn't wear turtle neck jumpers. :angry:

Do not bring Steve Jobs into this debate - he was a brilliant and forward thinking man.

 

George Osbourne couldn't see a brick wall if it was right in front of him. And he doesn't wear turtle neck jumpers. :angry:

 

He was right though

 

Using the Jobs motto it is better for someone to take a risk and buy a house, if it doesn't work out then shit happens and massive respect to them for taking the risk

 

Someone who just sits on their ass and doesn't take the risk and ends up renting all their life deserves less respect

 

Plus you overestimate the influence Gideon has, interest rates etc are out of his hands, they are set by the independent Mark Carney, one of the worlds most respected economists if not the most respected, he is no Osborne puppet