Governments don't create jobs, employers do

 

But no I would welcome a fall in unemployment from government of any party, less money spent on benefits should eventually lead to me paying less tax so getting people off welfare is great

Funny that, I always thought the public sector was a thing. And don't forget state contracts...

 

In any case, I don't recall much welcoming of news when the economy was recovering and unemployment was going down in early 2010.

Spectacularly missing my point - unemployment figures are useless when we have no idea what type of jobs people have, they're not welfare figures so for instance we don't know how many people need the state to top up their wages.

 

Then again, I wouldn't expect you to question the statistics when you assume that everything is fine as long as your taxes are going down.

 

The key indicator to me is the number of people claiming JSA, that was spectacularly down, 54000 or something, some of that could be people getting benefits stopped or simply stopped claiming but a significant number will have got jobs out of those

Funny that, I always thought the public sector was a thing. And don't forget state contracts...

 

In any case, I don't recall much welcoming of news when the economy was recovering and unemployment was going down in early 2010.

 

I thought Blair didn't do a bad job, had the economy ticking over at a nice pace, if he had not behaved the way he did with Iraq he might have gone down in history as one of the UK's better PM's as opposed to being remembered as a blood thirsty lying warmonger

Well, never stopped Churchill *.*

(with reference to Kenya/India only)

The key indicator to me is the number of people claiming JSA, that was spectacularly down, 54000 or something, some of that could be people getting benefits stopped or simply stopped claiming but a significant number will have got jobs out of those

You're still missing the point, just saying "they got jobs" is completely pointless when you have no idea what they are. In that respect JSA is one of the worst parameters as the only thing it tells us is that they have a job of some description - that's fine for the people writing the headlines and mugs like you who can't see the bigger picture but it says nothing about what they're still claiming for and why.

JSA claims are down, but benefit claims continue to rise steadily - this is thanks no doubt to the rise in part-term work (or even worse, zero-hour contracts which are just insanely unfair on employees) but even more likely the cause is the fact that wages are managing to remain below inflation and therefore falling in real-terms. And this is supposed to be a 'recovery'?

 

From the ONS: Between May to July 2012 and May to July 2013 total pay rose by 1.1% and regular pay rose by 1.0%.

 

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/resources/earningsseptember_tcm77-326895.png

 

We were doing much better in 2010.

Edited September 13, 201311 yr by Doctor Blind

You're still missing the point, just saying "they got jobs" is completely pointless when you have no idea what they are. In that respect JSA is one of the worst parameters as the only thing it tells us is that they have a job of some description - that's fine for the people writing the headlines and mugs like you who can't see the bigger picture but it says nothing about what they're still claiming for and why.

 

If it was just an isolated piece of encouraging news i would totally agree but there are many atm such as retail sales going through the roof, exports their highest in a generation, house builds/construction at a new high, massive recruitment drive by estate agents, record tax receipts etc, all the key indicators are moving in the right direction

 

 

JSA claims are down, but benefit claims continue to rise steadily - this is thanks no doubt to the rise in part-term work (or even worse, zero-hour contracts which are just insanely unfair on employees) but even more likely the cause is the fact that wages are managing to remain below inflation and therefore falling in real-terms. And this is supposed to be a 'recovery'?

 

From the ONS: Between May to July 2012 and May to July 2013 total pay rose by 1.1% and regular pay rose by 1.0%.

 

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/resources/earningsseptember_tcm77-326895.png

 

We were doing much better in 2010.

 

Wages for the tax year 2013/14 are decided typically in Jan/Feb of and take place in April, in Jan the economy was still very stagnant and wages reflected that but I suspect next April wages will go up much higher due to the stronger economy.

If it was just an isolated piece of encouraging news i would totally agree but there are many atm such as retail sales going through the roof, exports their highest in a generation, house builds/construction at a new high, massive recruitment drive by estate agents, record tax receipts etc, all the key indicators are moving in the right direction

"We" being a fairly misleading term - as per usual, any sign of economic recovery is only being felt by certain people in certain areas.

If it was just an isolated piece of encouraging news i would totally agree but there are many atm such as retail sales going through the roof, exports their highest in a generation, house builds/construction at a new high, massive recruitment drive by estate agents, record tax receipts etc, all the key indicators are moving in the right direction

What utter rubbish. Retail sales are rising but they are not "going through the roof". There is a suspicion (no more than that at the moment) that some of this has been fuelled by people receiving compensation for mis-sold PPI which is just a temporary phenomenon. There will also have been a substantial increase in purchases of seasonal goods (garden furniture, summer clothing) compared with last year due to the better weather. In other words, sales are better than lsat summer when they were dismal.

 

House builds at a new high? Over what period? If it is at the highest level for four years, that is hardly anything to crow about. The fact is that it remains at a very low level and is of little or no help to prospective first-time buyers.

 

The increase in the number of people employed by estate agents is one of the main contributors to the fall in unemployment. While this may be good news in the short term, history tells us that it is hardly secure employment. Or, to put it another way, it is an increase in the number of people who are trusted about as much as politicians, tabloid journalists and bankers. Well whoopy-doo.

What utter rubbish. Retail sales are rising but they are not "going through the roof". There is a suspicion (no more than that at the moment) that some of this has been fuelled by people receiving compensation for mis-sold PPI which is just a temporary phenomenon. There will also have been a substantial increase in purchases of seasonal goods (garden furniture, summer clothing) compared with last year due to the better weather. In other words, sales are better than lsat summer when they were dismal.

 

House builds at a new high? Over what period? If it is at the highest level for four years, that is hardly anything to crow about. The fact is that it remains at a very low level and is of little or no help to prospective first-time buyers.

 

The increase in the number of people employed by estate agents is one of the main contributors to the fall in unemployment. While this may be good news in the short term, history tells us that it is hardly secure employment. Or, to put it another way, it is an increase in the number of people who are trusted about as much as politicians, tabloid journalists and bankers. Well whoopy-doo.

 

The retail sales increase is a lot to do with the increase in property sales, with huge numbers of first time buyers they will need to buy sofas, fridges, beds, cookers, tv's etc (this fits with the recent report from Dixons the owner of Currys of robust trade and similar reports from John Lewis which if i remember correctly reported sales in July 19% up on last year)

 

They were not THAT dismal last year, sure the weather had an effect but that was balanced out by the royal shit and the olympics.

 

It doesn't matter if estate agents are trusted or not, what matters is the new hires are making money as opposed to living off mine

The retail sales increase is a lot to do with the increase in property sales, with huge numbers of first time buyers they will need to buy sofas, fridges, beds, cookers, tv's etc (this fits with the recent report from Dixons the owner of Currys of robust trade and similar reports from John Lewis which if i remember correctly reported sales in July 19% up on last year)

 

They were not THAT dismal last year, sure the weather had an effect but that was balanced out by the royal shit and the olympics.

 

It doesn't matter if estate agents are trusted or not, what matters is the new hires are making money as opposed to living off mine

Your tax isn't your money any more than my savings account is yours.

Your tax isn't your money any more than my savings account is yours.

 

Figure of speech :)

 

Someone paying into the system by way of tax is subsidising the benefits of those who are paying nothing in the way of direct taxation into the system hence the term 'living off my money' although of course it is not literal

Figure of speech :)

 

Someone paying into the system by way of tax is subsidising the benefits of those who are paying nothing in the way of direct taxation into the system hence the term 'living off my money' although of course it is not literal

Then why do I suspect you're serious?

So the ONS has told us today that average pay in August 2013 has increased by 0.7% year-on-year (that's a decrease from the 1.1% year-on-year to July 2013).

 

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/resources/awechart_tcm77-330760.png

 

 

And the even better news is that house prices are now at their most expensive level ever rendering them even more unaffordable! YAY. Well done Osbourne. But not to worry we can all now take out 95% mortgages and masses of debt that will cripple us in 5 years time when interest rates inevitably rise, forcing us to default on our debts.

 

*High fives all the bankers*

 

:(

Edited October 16, 201311 yr by Doctor Blind

too true. there is an excellent article in Estates Gazette (property rags/professionals always talk things up, as its in their interest to do so, even when it's obvious what's going to happen) two weeks ago explaining exactly why the country is still utterly £$%ked:

 

public debt ratio is 76% and increasing (not declining)

 

the population growth forecast will be in the very young and elderly, not working age

 

cost cutting so far has been "tinkering around the edges" and actual annual spend by the gov isnt going down, as a ratio of earnings it's forecast by the OBR to be 53% up from 49% in 2015

 

the ratio of personal debt has doubled since 2000 to 1.42 trillion pounds (OBR predicts it will be 1.93 tr by 2018)

 

Europe: is not fixed. (my note: just like the USA's MASSIVE breathtakingly huge debts aren't fixed, they just get bigger and bigger each year) This will impact on UK well-being.

 

housebuilding has been in crisis for years and there is going be close on a shortage of a million homes before long. Property expert notes the overvalued property from the boom still has another 10% to fall - not London, of course, where foreigners are busy snapping up bargains and causing a boom.

 

There are a million young people out of work. 2.5 million in total. many others in part time work

 

the banks are still sitting on and tolerating vast amounts of property debt accumulated during the bad years. (or good years)

 

so....don't start rattling this flags cheering we can see the light at the end of the tunnel. That tunnel is getting longer by the day..

 

 

 

 

too true. there is an excellent article in Estates Gazette (property rags/professionals always talk things up, as its in their interest to do so, even when it's obvious what's going to happen) two weeks ago explaining exactly why the country is still utterly £$%ked:

 

public debt ratio is 76% and increasing (not declining)

 

the population growth forecast will be in the very young and elderly, not working age

 

cost cutting so far has been "tinkering around the edges" and actual annual spend by the gov isnt going down, as a ratio of earnings it's forecast by the OBR to be 53% up from 49% in 2015

 

the ratio of personal debt has doubled since 2000 to 1.42 trillion pounds (OBR predicts it will be 1.93 tr by 2018)

 

Europe: is not fixed. (my note: just like the USA's MASSIVE breathtakingly huge debts aren't fixed, they just get bigger and bigger each year) This will impact on UK well-being.

 

housebuilding has been in crisis for years and there is going be close on a shortage of a million homes before long. Property expert notes the overvalued property from the boom still has another 10% to fall - not London, of course, where foreigners are busy snapping up bargains and causing a boom.

 

There are a million young people out of work. 2.5 million in total. many others in part time work

 

the banks are still sitting on and tolerating vast amounts of property debt accumulated during the bad years. (or good years)

 

so....don't start rattling this flags cheering we can see the light at the end of the tunnel. That tunnel is getting longer by the day..

 

The important thing for the nation right now, is the re election of a majority tory government in 2015, the alternative is too terrifying to imagine

 

Labour will just spend spend spend borrow borrow borrow and within 3 years we will be another Greece

 

I would rather the current government takes the risk on creating a mini boom if it ensures a majority in 2015, the future of the nation is at stake, so while there are risks involved in 95% loans it is a risk worth taking, home owners voted overwhelmingly tory in 2010 so more and more homeowners equals more and more votes for us.

 

If it all goes pear shaped the damage will be a lot less than the damage caused by labour turning a blind eye to the banks for years and selling off our gold for a fraction of its worth

 

House price boom, more and more new buyers who most likely will vote tory, plus hopefully pre election tax cuts should see us win comfortably in 2015, we are only 1% behind now according to You Gov

The important thing for the nation right now, is the re election of a majority tory government in 2015, the alternative is too terrifying to imagine

 

Labour will just spend spend spend borrow borrow borrow and within 3 years we will be another Greece

 

I would rather the current government takes the risk on creating a mini boom if it ensures a majority in 2015, the future of the nation is at stake, so while there are risks involved in 95% loans it is a risk worth taking, home owners voted overwhelmingly tory in 2010 so more and more homeowners equals more and more votes for us.

 

If it all goes pear shaped the damage will be a lot less than the damage caused by labour turning a blind eye to the banks for years and selling off our gold for a fraction of its worth

 

House price boom, more and more new buyers who most likely will vote tory, plus hopefully pre election tax cuts should see us win comfortably in 2015, we are only 1% behind now according to You Gov

So you admit that the crisis was caused by "turning a blind eye to the banks" but think that the party that back more deregulation has the means to solve it. Right.

 

I would say it's like talking economics with an 11 year old but I'd insulting the children.

So you admit that the crisis was caused by "turning a blind eye to the banks" but think that the party that back more deregulation has the means to solve it. Right.

 

I would say it's like talking economics with an 11 year old but I'd insulting the children.

 

We made the banks seperate their retail operations from their investment operations which should in theory help minimise the risk of these things happening again, we also made it clear there would be no future bailouts