Bored of the HS2 argument? Don't worry, George Osborne's got you covered.

 

Proposal of a so-called "HS3" between Manchester and Leeds, cutting journey times from 50 to 30 minutes in an effort to increase the productivity of the big Northern cities so that they can compete collectively with London.

 

Ignoring the fact that Northern Hub is going to cut the time to 40 minutes by 2018, while HS3 presumably won't be finished for decades. NH is also doing all sorts of other things on the lines between Liverpool and Sheffield, all for £560m compared to the £7bn HS3 is supposed to cost.

 

That early completion date also leaves the likelihood of further work being done. People have quite rightly made the point that improvements should stretch to Newcastle and Hull, which seems likely to happen post-2018 in contrast to another ridiculously far away High Speed completion date.

 

So basically nice idea, terrible execution.

What I don't understand is why on EARTH these HS projects take so long in this country compared with others (and not JUST China). Planning permission?

If these projects are so important why are we not a) doing them now and b) sending the line from London to Aberdeen with connections and branches to major cities. (Eg Manchester to Newcastle and Hull and a line from South Wales to London).

 

I think big infrastructure projects in the UK are doomed to failure by the red tape nightmare that is the government and a lack of long term-ism by our governments. Ok so the balance sheet takes a hit now but were (supposedly) investing in future growth here so why not secure a decent line of credit at the current tiny rates and literally build a recovery.

What I don't understand is why on EARTH these HS projects take so long in this country compared with others (and not JUST China). Planning permission?

Possibly contracting issues as well.

I just love the patronising undertones whenever politicians suggest things like this. "Here, you northern plebs. You just make do and be grateful for these shiny infrastructure projects taht we're generously giving you, and stop complaining about the fact the whole British economy is orientated around south-eastern homeowners and businesses".

 

It's not a bad idea, but it's the tip of the iceberg in terms of what's needed.

Edited June 25, 201411 yr by Danny

Usually I'd be shouting from the rooftops about funding needing to be devolved to councils and city regions but the problem with big rail projects is usually that they cover such a huge area that it'd involve several authorities having to pool funds. Would be so much easier for it to be done through Westminster if they even had their priorities half right.

If these projects are so important why are we not a) doing them now and b) sending the line from London to Aberdeen with connections and branches to major cities. (Eg Manchester to Newcastle and Hull and a line from South Wales to London).

 

I'd be happy if they just improved the awful service that we have up here. You can already get from London Euston to Birmingham New Street in less than an hour and a half. I can't even get from Aberdeen (where I live now) to Elgin (my home town) in that time...and that's a mere 65 miles. It takes 2.5 hours to get from Aberdeen to Edinburgh (125 miles) on our current lines which is already an hour more than the equivalent in Southern England.

 

Concentrating all of this in England will only further alienate Scottish rail users who already have a terrible service and have been offered nothing so far.

I'd be happy if they just improved the awful service that we have up here. You can already get from London Euston to Birmingham New Street in less than an hour and a half. I can't even get from Aberdeen (where I live now) to Elgin (my home town) in that time...and that's a mere 65 miles. It takes 2.5 hours to get from Aberdeen to Edinburgh (125 miles) on our current lines which is already an hour more than the equivalent in Southern England.

 

Concentrating all of this in England will only further alienate Scottish rail users who already have a terrible service and have been offered nothing so far.

 

That also applies to the South I'm afraid (as opposed to South of Scotland). It takes well over 2 hours to get to London from Poole (on the fast train), well over 3 on the slow train. If you live in Weymouth add another hour on.... That's 87 miles to Poole going through major towns and cities en route. From the point of view of the West Country and the south coast west of Southampton the thought of getting more than 30 miles in an hour on a train is luxury. These are not tiny little villages they are major centres of population.

 

I'm afraid I can't get excited about the prospects of spending millions or billions to knock off 20 minutes journey time from areas that are already well-served and relatively fast and efficient compared to other areas. For a fraction of the cost the rest of the country could benefit with local rail improvements, not to mention, say, a diversion to Bournemouth Airport to bring it into the 21st century. Still, at least there's a charity built/run railway to swanage....

That also applies to the South I'm afraid (as opposed to South of Scotland). It takes well over 2 hours to get to London from Poole (on the fast train), well over 3 on the slow train. If you live in Weymouth add another hour on.... That's 87 miles to Poole going through major towns and cities en route. From the point of view of the West Country and the south coast west of Southampton the thought of getting more than 30 miles in an hour on a train is luxury. These are not tiny little villages they are major centres of population.

 

I'm afraid I can't get excited about the prospects of spending millions or billions to knock off 20 minutes journey time from areas that are already well-served and relatively fast and efficient compared to other areas. For a fraction of the cost the rest of the country could benefit with local rail improvements, not to mention, say, a diversion to Bournemouth Airport to bring it into the 21st century. Still, at least there's a charity built/run railway to swanage....

I was going to make a similar point about the service down here! However, rather than a link to Bournemouth airport, I'd rather see a line from Southampton to Ashford to link with Eurostar.

I was going to make a similar point about the service down here! However, rather than a link to Bournemouth airport, I'd rather see a line from Southampton to Ashford to link with Eurostar.

 

In an ideal world, so would I, but a link to bournemouth airport would be a very short additional extension cost-wise. Never gonna happen of course, not enough air traffic to justify it. Personally, I'd vote Simpsons-style for a monorail system from the airport through every local town. It could be called the Pournechurcham Monorail Service, and JP Morgan could contribute towards it in return for having it's own stop-off. :lol: Plus, as penance for being so evil and all..... :yahoo: